The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Can't get my 59 apache 261 to fire!

My apache has been sitting for 15 years outside, the engine was not stuck. I put in new plugs, points, wires, distributor, coil, rebuilt the carb, but the thing will not fire! It turns over great. I have tried putting some gas in each of the plugs, but no luck. My next step is to try to pull start it. Any other ideas welcome!!!

did you check the timing?

Does it have spark?

when you say fire i take it you mean there is not fire getting to the plugs right? have you checked to see if your coil is getting 12 volts to it ? have you set the points? are you sure your timing is ok? are the wires crossed? is the coil producing fire? these are the questions i ask myself hope they help

I am getting spark from the coil. When I say it won't fire, there is no combustion of the gas inside the engine to get things really going. I have not checked the things both of you mention and will go there next. Thanks!

As a wise man on my tractor forum told me - if you have gas and spark in time it has to run.

You said you put gas in the cylinders not the carb. ? Why that way? The carb mixes the gas with the air so it will combust - straight gas in the cylinders won't burn as far as I know.

Make sure you start with the basics - you have spark. Do you have gas at the carb? My 58 has a bad fuel pump. It too sat for 15 years - The new pump should arrive this week.

You may well have gunk in the lines as well. Gas that sits that long will turn into varnish & sticky up everything it was touching 15 years ago.

Before messing with the timing check the fuel.

Fuel isn't the issue, I rigged up a can w fresh gas that feeds directly into a new fule pump and through a cleaned out fuel line to the filter bowl and then the carb (thanks to some great advice from people on Stovebolt!). It is getting fuel to the carb. I did check the timing and it is ok. Plenty of spark.

I tried putting gas in the sparkplug holes, since this always worked for me with a 2-cycle lawnmower engine - it always would fire with that little bit of gas in there. Not happening with my Apache unfortunately.

I think I am going to get the brake lines fixed next so I can pull it safely and try to get it going that way. Any other advice welcome!

do a compression test, squirt some oil in each cylinder to bring the compression up if it's low. raw gas in there isn't a good idea, takes away from the lubrication.

when you say its getting plenty of spark, is that spark all the way to the plugs ?
i like to either pull a plug with wire connected, ground the plug to an engine part, and turn it over to look for spark, or just pull a wire, stick a screw driver in the wire end, and put screw driver close to a ground, and trun over looking for spark.

if no spark at the plugs, did you install the rotor ?
once, stupid me, i forgot the rotor, and couldnt figure out why i was not getting spark to the plugs. LOL.

leonard

Did the compression test and cylinder 2 is pretty weak, all the others have good compression. Will that prevent it from firing?

We did make sure the engine had spark at the plugs and it does. I did put in a new rotor as well.

niobrarafun

OK.....If you have saprk and fuel at the right time you get ignition!! Fact not fiction.
If you are sure you have ample spark leaping across the plug gap, and you are sure you have a air fuel mixture entering the cylinders then the problem with no explosion is simple.....IMPROPER TIMING.
Your spark must occur when each piston is near the top of the compression stroke and both intake and exhaust valves are CLOSED.
Too early of a spark results in ignition (bang!!) and back fire past the intake valve out the carb.
Too late of a spark reults in ignition (bang!!) and after fire past the exhaust valve into the exhaust system.
CHECK IGNITION TIMING IN RELATION TO VALVE TIMING AND PISTON POSITION. Sounds to me as if your timing gears/spockets/chain etc are completely shot! Or that the distrutor is installed incorrectly (out of time with the crank/camshaft). May sound stupid, but.....are you sure you have the secondary wiring (plug wires) installed correctly? Recheck firing order, direction of distributor rotation.

I Have a 52 3100 with a 57 235 with the same problem as the guy with the 59 apache.
I'm thinking its the timing also but I mite also have a vaccum leak.How do i get the timing correct ?

First of all lets bring the engine up to number one top dead center now pull the cap on the dist. see where your rotor is pointed if it is not pointed to the number one wire position you are out of time. Now put your cap back on check where # 1 plug wire is pointing to as it should be in the same position as the rotor.I am sounding elementrey here but thing can happen when one gets flustrated. Do you have the center contactor in the Dist. cap? I have saw these fall out.
62Blue
Don

Thanks again for all the info. Sorry for the late response, I have been on vacation. Niobrarafun

I have a 49 farmall tractor that I put new wires & cap + rotor on. I was very careful to replace the wires 1 at a time to make sure I didn't mix them up. 1234 of course the firing order was 1324. Had pretty much the same as you here.

Timing can be a [censored].

Once you are sure the wires are in the correct order do this.

Bring the #1 cylinder to top dead center ON THE COMPRESSION STROKE. Do this by sticking your finger in the plug hole & rotating the engine by hand until you feel pressure on your finger & air pushing out.

Check the rotor is pointing toward #1 post/wire.

With the ignition on
Insert a spark plug in the #1 wire & ground it so you can see when it sparks.
Rotate the distributor away from the post just a bit to close the points(1/2 inch) & slowly rotate it back until the points open. When you see the plug spark you are in time.

This should get the truck started & no other adjustments should be needed.

I think I lost my mark on the the timing cover but still have it on the pulley.Any other way of telling when your on top dead center? Also my spark is ready weak,coil and wiring good could it be just the condencer ?

If you have a 261, it had no timing mark on the timing gear cover or on one of the pulleys. There is a bb on the front face of the flywheel and a "timing window" on the front face of the distributor side of the clutch housing.

Do you have a Shop Manual for the year of your engine (1960)?

If you have a 1960 261 flywheel, these instructions should work OK.

No mine is a 57" 235 chev,but the trucks a 3100 52" so I have a 1950 manual with 52" supplement.The other problem is that the spark is weak,coil and wiring good could it just be a faulty condenser?

Update on my 59. We ended up replacing the valves and it started right up and ran pretty good for being silent for 25 years. Not sure why that would have prevented it from firing, but it did the trick. New brakes lines are in place. Starting to make some progress before the snow flys. Next on the list is new fuel tank and lines. Then it should be ready to hit the road. Can't wait. Thanks for everyone's help.

Builder, I know it has been a while since I talked to you, thanks for all your help as well. Look forward to seeing you again in the near future. Looks like I am going to need a driver's side door. Mine is a little rusty on the bottom. lol
Niobrarfun