The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop IFS cross member for '47 to '55 3100's - GM Metric Based

Scott,

I updated the images. Will let you know if I need shims. Thanks.

Todd

All,

I created another email account. adcrossmember@verizon.net

Feel free to email, ask questions, purchase, etc.

Scott

p.s. Todd did you measure whether or not you need a shim with the Global West lowers? how about with the stock lowers?

Scott,am interested in your product.Would prefer a bolt in as i do not have welding experience. Thanks

Roy, PM sent.

decisions decisions......

I'm very interested in this setup, but need time to think about it. There is a local late model auto salvage yard 20min from me that is packed with s10s. I can mig weld so thats no problem, but im working outside on the ground, no concrete pad or anything. My truck also has the engine (235 inline 6) in it and I have no way to remove it.

My recent plan was to swap out the 3/4 ton axle for a 1/2 ton so that I could install a disc brake kit. I was also planning on installing a Toyota box in the stock location so I could have power steering. Ive been working on, and have designed a few brackets (waiting for some to be cut out and other waiting on quotes to have them laser cut out). I designed a bracket that will move the alternator to the passenger side, just like Fla54Chevy3100 and because I was using a toyota box, I designed a bracket that will mount a toyota pump where the alternator was. Also designed a bracket to mount the toyota box.

Anyway Im making some money back by selling the stock parts (brakes, steering and axles) and spending the money for a disc brake kit ($250-$400) on the s10 parts and crossmember. Could still move the alt to the passenger side, redesign the p/s pump bracket to use a gm, dodge or ford pump and forget about the toyota box and mount ($50 to have the box mount cut out).

When I get some free time I will run some numbers and see what works best for me and my budget.

Chris - if you want disks for the front, the S-10 and Gm Metric are all disks.

If you want disks for the rear, check this out http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2573847160101989507nIqKjR

I had designed a complete kit a while back for S-10's with the intention of making brackets and selling them. Never got around to it. Rear calipers and rotors are off of a Camaro

Scott

Been busy working mostly. I haven't measures waht shims I might need. Will try to get around to it.

Todd

scott, what is new with the r&p steering for the crossmember? what is the track width compared to stock. thanks.

Stock track width - covered that in the early posts. The R&P that I am using is a Camaro unit. I have brackets for that unit. Others that fit are Durango/Dakota, Ford Explorer and of course the M2 variants.

Any other questions?

has any body installed and is driving their truck with said crossmember installed? i like the fact it uses the gm a body and s10 componets as it is readily available. what year explorer rack and what mods need to be done. i do like the m2 stuff but being at the mercy of aftermarket suppliers turns me away from those setups. i have owned and driven many AD trucks with various clips in them and these days lean towards the gm a-body stuff as the track width seems the closest to stock. thanks for your time.

Only a few have purchased to date far less than the number interested. As far as I know mine is the farthest along and it is a bit from driving.

Scott.

do you have any up to date pic's of your truck? this crossmember really sounds like a #1 alt. to m2. sounds like the economy has stalled another good idea. bummer.

All the latest pics are on the webshots page. Unfortunately with the trucks still in Wisconsin and me down here it is a little hard to work on them right now.

The idea isnt stalled, only the sale of the idea. I have a bunch of inventory and a crap load of cash invested so I have to be a round for a while to recoup the investment.

Scott,
I tried my Chevy Dealer for bolts. Then I tried Advance and Autozone. I didn't think I would have success there and was right. Then I tried NAPA. He said no as well. I asked him about Fastenall. He said I would probably have to buy a whole box. In any event, I could ask them. I know that I need 12mm bolts and we discussed that it is best to find the flanged head type. Can you tell me what length you would use? The lower bolts need to go through what looks like 85mm and 73mm and I need length for the nut. Would I need 100mm and 90mm lengths?

Are the uppers bolts or studs. I have not seen a stock fram but might guess they use studs and need enough extra length for alignment shims. I measured that I need to go through 33mm of material, so I might need a 60mm stud/bolt? I had kind of hoped that my Chevy dealer could look them up on microfilm and I would just buy new versions of what an S-10 took. I might try online for something like GM parts Direct.

I also know that you told me about a company and I can look through this thread and fine the name McCarr something. Sorry.

You mentioned a type of bolt for the lowers. I presume it is a term for a locking nut. Are they one time use only?

Thanks again. Once I track down the bolts, I will measure what shims I might need.

Todd

Todd, McMaster Carr is the company name. www.mcmaster.com

Here is a link to a page from them. http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/114/3098
I dont see flange head fasteners in a M12 x 100 in a 10.9 or greater class.

Here is fastenal http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/detail.ex?sku=0128796
http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/detail.ex?sku=0128795
http://www.fastenal.com/catalog_pages/2008/3-222.pdf

The Fastenal stores have a $10 minimum charge. I usually pick up fasteners and a few flap wheels for the 4 1/2" grinder and end up spending way more than that.

I will track down a supplier if your dealer cant help. I can stop by my local dealer here and check as well. I like the factory original fasteners as they have the tapered lead in which makes assembly easier for a guy working alone.

I got lucky that I had Flange Head bolts from another donor in near new condition - coated with plenty of oil and road grim. I replaced the prevailing torque lock nuts though. I got them from the local Dealer Parts counter in Green Bay. Did you check with your local brakes, suspension, and alignment shop, they may have fasteners on hand.

All lock nuts are generally a one-time use as they loose effectiveness once used. The Prevailing Torque nuts are also called top lock or side lock and are manufactured by hitting them with a press to distort the threads a known amount to provide a "prevailing torque" for retention.

The stock upper A-arm fasteners were held in place with a little spring loaded clip to make them act as a stud for easy assembly. I am using M12 x 50mm on mine.

Last Chance for shipping by end of year. Only a few more days of the lower price

Scott,
What type of payment do you accept? What would shipping be to 79118?

Phil,

I accept paypal transfers and usps money orders as well as a good old fist full of dead presidents.

UPS has shipping ground to residential 79118 as $81.42

pm me or email me for details

Two more days of the lower price.

Scott,

I found these bolt kits. I am going to order. Thought you might like to know.

Spohn Performance S-10 bolt kits.

Todd

Todd, I would get the 980G for the A-arms that you have, however good find and great price.

http://www.spohn.net/shop/1978-1987-GM-G-Body/Suspension/Hardware-Kits/

Scott

I ordered that kit and the bolts for the upper arms. I also ordered replacement (non-lowered) springs and Bilstein Shocks. They had QA-1s that were advertised as bolt in, but they were twice as expensive. Next on the shopping list will be the steering rack. I am still leaning toward the Flaming River unit.

Looking forward to spring and making some progress.

Todd

Scott, I ordered before I fully read your last post. I got the bolts for the S10 (980S) The kit came with the larger botls for one end of the lower a-arm. I now understand that your crossmember, and the a-arms I bought are designed around the G-body arms and not the S-10 arms. It seems that most of the a-arms I have seen are built for G-body. There must be more folks racing and modifying Gbody cars that S-10 trucks. Anyhow, I orderd another set (980G). It is not worth returning the others because the shipping is almost as much as the bolt kit.

Todd

Todd, the only difference is most of the S-10's have the larger M14 bolt than the G-body. The stock lower A-arms are the same stampings. Most of the S-10 lower A-arms out there are for dropping the truck further. You may be able to simply mail the units back in a padded envelope for about $1

I cover the different donors in the instructions with directions on drilling out the cross member holes for S-10 donors (easier to drill a smaller hole larger than the other way around).

Scott

Scott, What do you use for a spring compressor? Do you use one that has a double hook and goes inside the spring?

Todd

That is what I intend to use. I own strut spring compressors (external)however they wont work, so I get them on loan from the local FLAPS. If you notice in my pics, I have a nice piece of 4 x 4 white wood as a spacer in mine in the photos.

Scott, I've tried using a 1963-87 front IFS but had problems with the steering geomerty and a wide track width. I ended up starting with a new frame going all stock as I did before. My original goal was to have an IFS that would ride stock truck height and be able to use my 90's era S-10 allow wheels. I am very interested in what you are doing but have a few questions. Will the ride height be like the stock truck or the typical lowered 4" like the other IFS manufactures. Also, what will the overall track width be face of rotor to face of rotor. Is it any where close to the original? I'm interested in more info on your project. My e-mail address is chevy3100@clearwire.net.
Thanks
Steve Andereggen Jr.

Steve, Welcome to the bolt. reviewed your conversion in the past. The ride height that I have is about 1" lower than stock. If you want lower, then use lowering spindles. To lower the truck more, the cross member can be raised in the frame like the M2 kits are, this however requires notching the frame for steering rack clearance.

I had a complete front stub from a 81 Monte Carlo that I used to take all the measurements from (spare stub for friends race car). Unlike the S-10 frames with the narrow track width, the G-body has a 58" track width like the AD trucks.

Unlike conversions that use the steering box, I went with Rack & Pinion mainly because it can be adjusted for bump steer, however also because you dont need to cut the inner fenders to fit.

Also, if you use drop spindles, the steering geometry changes just a bit - I noticed that when I had my S-10.

Other than that, most of the stuff is covered here. Todd found a few issues with a tubular A-arm supplier and an excellent source for fastener kits.

Todd is running a 235, I am running a Big Block Olds, and Phil is running an SBC.

I just found this list in Wikipedia on G body cars. They have a good source of info on these G body cars. The also have good info on the S-10 trucks and references the use of g body parts in them.

Buick Grand National (1982, 1984-1987)
Buick Regal (1982–1987)
Chevrolet El Camino (1982–1987) note: ~200 unsold 1987s reportedly sold as 1988s; unclear if this included GMC Caballeros as well
Chevrolet Malibu (1982–1983)
Chevrolet Monte Carlo (1982–1988)
GMC Caballero (1982–1987)
Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (1982–1988) note: 1988 model known as Cutlass Supreme Classic
Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais (1982–1985)
Oldsmobile Cutlass Cruiser (1982–1984)
Oldsmobile Cutlass Salon (1986–1987)
Pontiac Bonneville (1984–1986)
Pontiac Grand Prix (1982–1987)
Pontiac Grand LeMans (1982–1983)

What years of the S-10 fit into your crossmember? Gen. 1 and 2 or just Gen. 1?

Enjoy,
Steve Andereggen Jr.

Steve, G-bodies are from 1978 - 1987, also known as GM intermediates. The S-10 was built from the GM Metric parts bin, and all S-10 chassis from 1982 - 2004 are fair game for donors. The S-10's after about 1985 have a different Lower A-arm bushing when GM upsized one of the A-arm bolts from M12 to M14. Beyond that, they are the same. The Gen 3 Camaros also are built out of the same parts bin sharing brakes, lower a-arms, steering boxes, etc.

The other advantage is that well over 500,000 racecars running in North America are based on the G-body chassis. That opens a whole list of tubular A-arms, coil overs, brakes, sway bars, etc that are out there.

Scott

hi
im interested in one how much are they.
thank you tim

Tim,

PM sent

Scott

Scott, Todd M,
I have found a few web sites that use the tall spindle from a B body full size RWD GM car that they have installed in thier G body cars. They use a modified upper A-arm to correct camber and allows the use of GM 12" disc brakes. I have found that Hotchkis, Global West and Spohn make these A arms. It was noted that one ran into problems, unspecified, from Global West and used Hotchkis. I read that Todd had problems with Global also. Is there a concern about the products from this company? The pictures from Spohn's web site has a very different construction of their arms as opposed from the others. To me they look like a light weight drag style. Any comments on Spohn's A arms? I'm looking to upgrade my AD with Scott's cross member and the associated parts for this 12" brake setup if it work.
Todd M, I cannot look at your pictures as it says my browser won't open them.
Thanks

I bought Global West arms. The lowers did not fit the crossmember that Scott built. Global West had made the jig wrong some time ago. They offered to send me new bushings that were thinner on one side and thicker on the other to corret for it. I chose to send the arms back and get another set that was made correctly. It seems that the first set they sent me was from the old stock they had. I don't know how much of it they have left. Being who I am I couldn't accept the idea of "making it work" when I was paying so much for the A-arms. In the end they made it right, although I had to pay for return shipping.

I don't know which link you are having problems with. Here is a link to my Picasa site. I changed from Picture trail a wile back.

Suspension pics

Todd,
Some how my computer does not like Picasa. I cannot open anything from them. I have to track this down later.

I have done more searching about the tall spindle 12" brakes and there seems to be as many pro as cons about using this setup mostly from G body guys. I will not pursue this and go with the standard S10 spindle and brakes for now.
Thanks

I would recommend the 2 piston caliper setup from the later S-10 Blazers for a simple inexpensive brake upgrade. These have much more stopping power than the standard GM metric caliper. However dont be hung up on brakes. There literally are hundreds of brake kits for the G-body and S-10 on the market. I grafted F-body 1LE brakes on my S10 years ago.

There are kits to mount Corvette Brake calipers (Girling)etc that are nothing more than a bracket and a parts list. Wilwood and SSBC make large rotor conversions that are inexpensive. The Tall-spindle conversion that you are looking at was done using stock parts to get larger brakes for various racing classes where Stock components were required and only tubular uppers could be used. The plus side, it is cheap, the down side, you have to modify the spindle and use custom ball joints.

Gabbyp, here is the link to my webshots pages http://good-times.webshots.com/album/561711357EzPphT

2009 Tax season Sale - see https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthread...;Main=72952&Number=523662#Post523662 for details

After crawling under the neighbors Explorer with a tape measure and a pad of paper, the Explorer rack should fit a bit better than the camaro rack. It also looks like the dimensions on the Durango rack are favorable as well. However without the truck here, or a feral rack from a Durango or explorer, I can not provide too many details yet.

scott have three people interested in crossmember please advise me how much and how to order thanks chris

Any thoughts of making a seperate crossmember for the 3/4 that would use a later 3/4 IFS so not to loose any towing/weight capacity?