The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop What’sa Carter Webber cost?

I see the Holly/Weber is listed on Langdon’s site for $75 and the Carter/Weber for $85, is that the correct price on these carburetors? Add the kit for the linkage $35, a 1bbl to 2bbl adaptor for $15 and $30 for an air cleaner that gives you a total of $165 plus a but for shipping. Ya can’t buy a decent rebuilt primitive poor performing carb for that kind of money now days. For those guys that have tried this setup, is that the correct cost and have ya all been happy with it and what were the problems if you have encountered any??? Oh, and does the Holly/Weber linkage work on the Carter/Weber carb, Tom only lists the linkage for a Holly/Weber.

What does Jon think about the HW/CW set up, I’d really like to hear your opinion???

I’ve got a buddy that isn’t much into originality and he’s about fed up with the hesitation/stumble/lean mixture with his Carter W-1 and doesn’t even want to mess with all the problems of a Rochester. Can’t much blame him, it is rather annoying having to play with the choke constantly to get them to run halfway decent and put up with the garage stinking of gasoline that boiled over when ya park it.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

I just purchased the h/w setup from Tom Langdon, haven't installed it yet hopefully this week.Yes that is the right price carb, linkage,and air filter.

Best money I ever spent. Next was HEI ignition.

OUCH, That hurt my wallet. I paid NAPA just under $400 for a remanufactured Carter YF. That was last year. Yea kinda pricy, but it beats the bejesus out of the Rodchester B.

Have a pair of the Carter Webers that I am in the process of switching to right now. They are brand new carbs. Can't beat the price and the reports are great from those that have made the swap earlier. I think a single carb may be too small in the C-W version as I believe they were designed for an engibne closer to 130 CID.

Thanks guys, I'd bet that 130inch engine breathes a whole bunch better than that 216, and I'd bet that it's about a wash. I haven't heard of anyone having to re-jet them. I did see one on a '52 last year and the guy said it ran great. It had sat all winter in his garage when he showed it to me and he reached through the window and hit the starter switch with out touching the throttle and it came to life almost immediately, sounded real strong and smooth.
Maybe we will hear from the Carbking on this, I'm hoping he'll drop a few comments in here.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

I just got back from a 300 mile test-run with a 261 and a dual Carter-Weber set-up from Langdon. Langdon sells new C-W carbs (not rebuilt) at less than 1/2 the price of a rebuilt C-W carbs.

His C-W linkage is, I think, different from his Holley-Weber linkage. It is certainly different (and uses much better components) than the commonly available dual Rochester linkage (which works very nicely with dual one-barrel Rochesters). I strongly recommend getting Langdon's C-W linkage - he does not list this linkage on his website.

You can save a little getting the 2-barrel to 1-barrel adapters from Summitt Racing but Landon's price is not much more.

I do not yet have my timing and accelerator linkage just right but I'll get there. Using the 261, the pedal to bell-crank rod and the bell-crank to carb rod have to be adapted/fabricated.

My gas mileage was about 14 mpg for a 300 mile trip over rolling hills on a 2-lane state route (a village and a stop light every 10-15 miles). I had expected better mileage and hope it improves once I get things better tuned.

The engine starts within a second with these carbs - it's magical.

In earlier threads, I have posted information about hooking up the C-W 12v electric chokes on a 6v system, using a 12v oil-pressure switch as a relay.

The C-W 740 carburetor was used on 1600cc 1983 Ford Escorts. 1600cc is equivalent to about 98 cubic inches. I'm with you Denny, it would be nice to hear from someone (like Carbking) who knows about carburetors.

here is the info that comes with the Carter Weber carbs from Lamgdon's. http://pages.suddenlink.net/churchill_toolboards/Langdons%20Carter%20Webers.pdf

Thanks, Greg.

I think I will call Tom and discuss jets.

I think that Tom recommended the C-Ws for 261s but that documents says for in-line six engines of 250ci and smaller. My 261 is 0.060 overbored, making it about 271ci.

Tim

I've been running the Holley/Weber as well as dual Carter/Webers on my 235 for the past 8000 miles. Without question, they were among the most cost-efficient upgrades I have made. No longer plagued with carb leaks, hesitation and difficult starts, the single H/W eliminated all the above in one swift swoop. After 3500 miles I switched to the dual Carter/Webers and the results were the same.

Langdon's prices are very reasonable and he offered a rebuilt H/W for $65.00 and a new carb for $75.00. The linkage kit is simple in design, easy to install and the stock vertical linkage from the bell crank is cut off at the upper 90 degree bend and threaded to mate with the ball swivel. I would recommend adding a 12v electrical choke conversion to eliminate the unsightly water heat choke. As expected, it works great.

In addition, he recommends using an inexpensive adjustable pseudo-regulator (such as the Mr. Gasket--NOT SPECTRE) from your local auto parts store to drop the stock mechanical pump pressure to 3-1/2 psi.

Without question, the single H/W upgrade is going to improve driveability immediately. Although the overall cost is a bit more than a worn-out rebuilt carb.....the feeling of your truck cruising along without the smell of fuel, hesitation and hard starting is priceless.

Dave

I was lucky enough to find a NOS Carter YF on ebay. It replaced the "Leakchester" BC on my '58 235. I'm very pleased. No more gas stink!

Lots of loose ends flopping round here regarding the Holly, Carter, Weber affair. I'm trying to pull them all together into one common thread.
So Dave, I can only assume from what you are saying that a single Holly/Weber has adequate airflow and jetting to run on a 216 or 235 Chevy??? But, the Carter/Weber does not and it is necessary to run the dual set up with the CW???
I was under the impression all this time that they were used for the same application and the same in design, just manufactured for Weber by the two different American manufacturers. Now I'm getting the impression that they are different in design, is that correct?
If the HW that Tom is selling is a rebuilt then is there a core charge and how much does that add to the project???
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

According to Tom the H/W cfm matches it up with the 216-235 as a single unit. Dual C/W's for the 235 and dual H/W's for a 261. I found no need to re-jet in any of the applications.

Basically the same design, with the exception of the water heated choke on the H/W. The secondary circuit is opened with an over-ride mechanical lever and both carbs have the asymmetrical top that uses a fat o-ring under the plate he furnishes, to get a good seal. In addition, his air cleaner kit has an offset bolt that allows you to bolt the air cleaner down to the carb.

Both the H/W and C/w's are sold outright...no core charges. As I mentioned before, the installation is straightforward....if I remember correctly, he includes a couple longer manifold studs and of course all the hardware to make the install. The linkage kit is assembled by following a picture he includes or you can go to my webshots as I have quite a bit of info on both installs.

One thing to note: When you assemble the carb to the adaptor, it appears that the adaptor and gasket bolt holes don't line up. THEY DO....you just have to finess them into place before snugging them down. If you try to draw them together by torquing down the bolts you will have a vacuum leak.....guaranteed! This applies to both the H/W and C/W's.

Both carbs work fine with the E10 fuel and I haven't had to touch the C/W's internally since I installed and synced them in. Like Tim, I've noted a decrease in mileage from 18 mpg down to 16 mpg with the E10 blended fuel. However, a read on my plugs shows a perfect burn and aside from having to richen my idle mixture to quell the popping and crackling during deceleration, the setup has been flawless. I might add that much of my driving is at 65-70 mph and with the aero package of a brick, I'm happy with that mileage figure.

I realize that the "look" is different, but many a former truck owner at the weekly shows, has commented that he wished a better designed carb was available when he was using it to make a living. Most just smile when you mention that there are no hard starts, hesitation, or fuel smells!!

Dave

Dave,

I found your webshots of the C-W dual carbs to be quite helpful with my 261 installation (Greg Hill, I hope you are reading this and look at Dave's photos at the links below).

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2374734500090459121DKNyTE

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2191350300090459121lMriBW

I could not get the throttle to linkage rod thought the intake manifold (Fenton) until I installed the linkage carb-to-linkage standoffs at an angle from the carbs, rather than perpendicular to the valve cover.

http://1954advance-design.com/Web%20images/261-installation/slides/16-261-installed_5.html

I get no back-off popping but I do not seem to get any more acceleration oomph than I got with matched dual Rochester (stock 261 engine Rochesters).

Tim

I have seen his photo album and refer to it many times. Yonight, I got the adapters reshaped to where I was happy with them. Then I installed on the intake and mocked the carbs up. I am going back and forth as to whether or not I will use the bakelite spavers under the adapters. I had them under the Rochesters and at first look, it appears that the linkage may line up better with them so that is a variable right now.

Back to the meat of the post. Tom Langdon told me that the Carter-Weber carbs are brand new and more likely to make a "matched set". He said the Holley-Webers are remanufactured and subject to reman specs and wear tolerances. He said that the odds were lower of finding a matched pair of them. I think he said about a one in four chance. At one point, I think he told me that if not for the reman/new thing, the H-W would actually be his choice. He strongly points out that niether carb is a Holley or Carter design. They are Weber designs that went down the other assembly lines. The Holleys come as mentioned with a water heated choke but an electric choke is a slight extra cost option. There is no question that both are an unbelievable bargain at the price Langdon's sells them for. The little Carters are a nice, heavy carb. I am impressed and have not even heard them run yet.

Tim, the crackle/popping is a symptom of a lean mixture and is produced when you take your foot off the gas while the truck is moving in gear. Giving it just an 1/8 turn on the idle mix circuit cures the problem.

On the Offy intake I had to grind a tad off the firewall side of the heat plate and thinned the head on the manifold bolt to get a full range of movement of the throttle. I discovered (after the fact) that it would have been easier to substitute a piece of heavy copper wire (like is used to ground electrical boxes) to get the bends in the vertical stock throttle rod. Bending the stock steel rod is a real pain in the fingers. Once you get the copper (3/16") rod bent to allow a full range of motion, you could use it as a pattern to bend the stock steel rod.

Once you get the dual set mounted and ready to tune it's fairly accurate to use a short piece of garden hose to get them synced. I'm deaf in one ear and can't hear out the other and when I manufactured a pair of "hats" to adapt the carb tops to a unisyn, I found I was less than a 1/4 turn off. I made the "hats" out of some scrap sheet metal, duct tape and dumb-dumb sealer and although they aren't my proudest creation, they work for periodic checks. BTW....the sync hasn't changed in 5000 miles with the dual setup.

Tom's price on both the carbs is rock bottom. My son added a very similar Weber carb to his 258 Jeep and I think that carb alone was over three hundred bucks. When compared to $109.00 for a "rebuilt" Rochester from Azone with a sloppy throttle shaft, a warped air horn and a manual choke that was incorrectly assembled and wouldn't function.....the H/W and C/W carbs are a real bargain.

Just remember to add the Mr. Gasket adjustable regulator....and BTW...if you add an inline metal/plastic filter between the regulator and the carbs, you'll need to increase the dial setting on the regulator to 4-1/2 psi. The filters bleed off 1 psi according to my pressure gauge.

Dave

Does anyone have the single Holley/Weber set-up on a 216 with stock intake? I am getting tired of the leaking/stinking "B" on my 50 too. At $155 + s&h the whole package seems like a bargain if it really works - and apparently it does for some of youse guys. But on Langdon's page for the Adapter 1 BBL to 2 BBL there is a little note "does NOT fit Rochester carb" and that's confusing me. The venturi is smaller and the mounting stud centers are closer on a 216 than a 235. Thanks!

I have a Carter-Weber on a 235 with the stock intake.
I was using a 216 intake and exhaust, but I recently changed it.
Picture

On the 216 intake the clearance for the bolts that mount the adapter was a little tight. But then again, I didn't need to take it off very often.

regards,
Leon

Your best bet is to go straight to the horse's mouth for your information. Tom lists his number as (586)739-9601.....write your question(s) down just the way you want to ask and be sure the battery in your phone is fully charged. He's got a lot of info stored in his brain and if it relates to the Chevy truck he can answer it.

Tom and his wife are basically a 2 person operation...."no press 1 for English".....email contacts are not as productive as a phone call. Give him a call.....you'll be glad you did!

Dave

i have the single hw on my 235 that is bored .08 over with the stock manifold it works great solved all of my fuel problems then
the hei solved any elec problems life is good
philip

Denny,

The Carter/Weber is for a smaller cube engine if you are running a single. The Holley/Webers from Langdon are the best for our applications larger 235 ci and 261's. I'm running one now on a .060 over 235 about 244 ci. If you are runnina a dual carb set up on a 235 or 261 run the smaller Carter/Webers like someone said above. "Remember more carbs don't add fuel they add air" The Carbs need some tweeking as they are not right out of the box if you are reading plugs. Everyones engine is different so the carbs will need to be played with and the Holley/ Webers will give you lots of changable jets, emulsions tubes and air corections to play with to get good plug readings. I'll give you my set up for my altitude of 421 feet above sea level. For my Holley/ Weber this is what I ended up with by "reading plugs". Primary idle jet 75, Primary Air Correction 185, Primary Main Jet 132, Primary Emulsion Tube F6, Pump 50. Secondary Idle Jet 50, Secondary Air Correction 170, Secondary Main 147, Emulsion Tube F50. You must use a regulator verified with a guage set between 3+1/2 to 4. Idle air fuel mixture not more than 2+1/2 out. The 2+1/2 out is achieved with the idle air jet. I had to go up to 75 to achieve. If you want to use a electric fuel pump a Carter is the way to go, can't remember the stock number. If you need help let us know.

So I read this thread and am very interested in doing this swap, however I have a different requirement than you guys do with the trucks. I am running my stinky rochester on my stock 235 in a 57 Chevy sedan. Being that I have clearance issues with my hood, I was wondering if one of you guys could take a measurement for me to see how tall this setup is including the adapter and carb and another measure to include the aircleaner? I'm hoping for hood enough clearance!

I don't know if this will help you as it is not actual measurments but it is the installation in my truck and I thought it might give you some answers as you can reference the air cleaner tops to the top of the valve cover. I guess I can get actual dimensions when daylight and weather cooperates.
http://rides.webshots.com/album/573004888TGzvrt

Thanks for the response. Looking at your pictures worries me. I measured mine last night. I have 8 and 5/8s inches from the base of the intake to the hood. I noticed that you have a spacer on yours, so that might save about a half inch. I'm in talks with Tom Langdon. Hopefully we can make something work. I'd hate to have to drop $375 for the four barrel intake and another $350 for the holley 390!