The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop cam swap

Currently swapping a rebuilt 292 into my truck - offy intake, 390 holly, schneider 264 cam.


REALLY nervous about putting the new cam in and changing out the springs. Do I need to buy a spring compressor? harmonic balancer puller?

any good resources for step by step instructions? I have the chiltons and Leo's book, but looking for more detail - scared of messing up.

63ChevyNova,

Is the head off...are you going to take the head off to put new valve springs on? The Chiltons should have pretty exact procedures on cam gear installation. A press is usually required for the new cam gear.

Stuart

Heres what's going on:

a guy had a 292 rebuilt 2 years ago. it has sat since then and has never been run. I decided to replace mine and bought his since he decided to go another route - got it for $700.

It was rebuilt to stock specs. Since it is out of the truck right now, I decided to change cams and springs.

This is my first time doing an engine or cam swap.

The Chilton does have good procedures, but maybe not as clear as I'd like (they'd probably make more sense while sitting in front of the engine). It would be nice if there were more illustrations.

what do i use to remove the lifers?

The head is on the block. should I take the head off to install the springs?

63ChevyNova,

What a find..and for $700! The following thoughts are from my 235 experience, and I am hoping the 292 is similar. The lifters should come out easily by hand, or with needle nose pliers.

Removing the head would be the best way to address the spring swap. It can be done on the rig, and if you lose a valve, the head will come off anyway. Doing the job in the truck requires extra creativity, while doing it on the bench only requires a valve spring compressor.

Removing and replacing the cam gear is sort of simple...but, as with all things mechanical, there is room for disaster. There is a retainer in back of the gear..the gear must be pressed on and the retainer must have specific clearance.

If you haven't done engine work of the detail before, I would find someone to help you that has.

Stuart

You will need a hamonic balancer puller & a spring compressor but they are resonably priced at discount tool stores. It would be preferable to pull the head to change the springs. It would be best to remove the oil pan when you remove the cam cover. It,s hard to get it back on without leaks without pulling the pan. You can have a machine shop press the gear on the cam. The lifters should come right out after you remove the pushrods. If they want to stick spray some carb cleaner around the base. Your manual should lead you through the rest.

thanks for the help everyone.

what is the advantage of taking the head off to change the springs?

63ChevyNova,


It's the proper way to do it. The "in situ" procedure is sort of an emergency/make do operation, tenuous and fraught with peril.

I tried to find your cam ID on the Schneider site, but didn't see it. What do they recommend as far as new lifters to go with the new cam! Is this too much cam for your engine?

Stuart

264-H 264 duration 214 @ .050" .498" lift 110 lobe center $150.00 + shipping ( This was a 292" Chevy 6 cyl.)

the specs were suggested by some folks over at inliners.

the engine is rebuilt and has not been started, so I was told the lifters should be ok.

63ChevyNova,

The inliner folks do know their cams. "If" you pull the head to do the valve springs, which I would recommend, it might allow you to take a peek inside the engine. If there was any doubt as to the state of the head, a automotive machine shop could be sought out to install the springs, and while there, the head could be checked for guides and maybe valve seat condition.

The previous owner might have taken liberties with the term "rebuilt". I think the new cam would require NEW lifters, as opposed to good used lifters. It sounds like you are going to do this project right, so take a little time and make the best decisions.

Stuart

I just talked to a shop - they told me $25 to press the gear and another $20 to put the springs on - sounds good to me. I'll have them check the head out too.

here are a couple of engine pics:
[img]http://lyndonjscott.com/freelancejobs/truck/grease1.jpg[/img]
[img]http://lyndonjscott.com/freelancejobs/truck/grease2.jpg[/img]
[img]http://lyndonjscott.com/freelancejobs/truck/grease3.jpg[/img] [img]http://lyndonjscott.com/freelancejobs/truck/grease4.jpg[/img]
[img]http://lyndonjscott.com/freelancejobs/truck/grease5.jpg[/img]

63ChevyNova,

WOW....that sure looks like a rebuild to me. You did get a deal on it for $700. Those sound like good choices.


Stuart

thanks for the input everyone.

yup, I think it's kinda purdy... too bad the rest of the truck doesn't look as good as the engine... all in good time I guess.

I guy I got it from a guy that was restoring an old firetruck from the 40's or 50's I think. In the end he decided to rebuild the original engine, which was something that I'd never heard of (he said he had only found 1 or 2 other people using the same engine). He posted it on ebay 3 times, I was pretty much the only one showing any interest in it.

anyone heard this(a friend from hotrod.com found it)? have any specific suggestions about what type of oil to use?
From lazercams.com

If you are using a aluminum cam gear do not press it on. it will not stay when you rev up the engine pass 3500 rpm this is a fact. you must heat the cam gear up to 500 to 600 degrees and chill the cam before you put the gear on, make sure you put the thrush plate on before the gear.
I run a 268 degree 499 lift 112 lobe center with 650 double pumper and it loves it.

super250six

Yeah...don't press that gear on. And definately DON'T use one of those pressed-fiber passenger car gears.

Cams usually come with new lifters don't they? And what about pushrods? I'd change them because there cheap and you will be winding that engine up quite a bit more than you could have with the stock cam. Push rod failure doesn't usually do much damage, but it is a serious pain in the arse and cheap to aviod.

Boo

Thanks for the tips. Where can I pick up better push rods?


well the last week has been unproductive in terms or getting closer to done with my truck.

I was looking at the front camshaft bearing. I THOUGHT I was careful when taking out the old camshaft, but there are a couple of gouges in it. I had a friend help me pull it out. He was surprised that I messed up the bearings. Should I bring the block to a shop to see if they need to be replaced, or should I post pics so that you can look at them?

The shop called me today and said that the new springs I got for the head are crap (too much variance between them, 25-30 lbs). He said the used springs that were on the head when I brought it to him are in better shape. I spoke with J. Cantrell, who is the owner of the company(http://www.schneidercams.com/), and he of course thought the mechanic is full of it. I asked if he'd send me a new set before I sent the old ones back (so I don't have to wait as long), but he hasn't gotten back to me yet.

Nova,

I wouldn't worry about the front cam bearing. Take a pocket knife or file and take the gouge off. These bearings are tough and don't take tons of abuse...massaging them a bit isn't uncommon.

In regards to Mr. Cantrell, customer service is a skill that has to be learned. Maybe he was having a tough day.

Are the valve springs you are going to install with this cam quite a bit stronger than stock? What are Schneiders recommendations on pushrods and lifters..won't these also take a hit from the increased spring pressure?

Stuart

I don't have my cam card in front of me, but I believe the unseated pressure was 260 and seated was 100? or maybe it was the other way around. I was told that the lifters would be fine b/c the engine has never been started. I'll ask again about the pushrods.

When picking out oil for the break in, go with the brand you like but add a can of GM break in lube, you can get it at any dealer.

You could also use Rottela oil for diesel engines, it still has the addatives for proper break in. Sometime in 2004 the oil makers took out the addatives due to emissions on newer cars. They found with out them the converters didn't plug up and they run far cleaner, the draw back is, older engines need the addatives for long life.

I found this out after we replaced a cam in a Pontiac that had only a few thousand miles on it. Two of the lobes were worn smooth. The cam makers are aware of the problem and are working on ways to get the message out. Talk with you dealer!

As far as you cam gear goes, leave it on the new old cam and buy a second set for the new new cam. For $35 you get both gears, and with a small puller you can get the crank gear off with to much trouble. You can also buy the cam retainer plate and spacer from GM or aftermarket for $4 to $5 dallors. I just paid theses prices this week her in Kansas City.

I replaced the harmonic balancer on my 250 at the same time. The rebuilder said to heat it to 250 -275 degrees and it would slip on. That was pretty close to the truth. It went 75% of the way on, the last bit took very little hammer work. I used the old timing gear off the crank to hit against the balancer, don't get out on the edge or the outer ring. Only hit in the very center at the crank!

Somemore advice, check the timing marks of the balancer, mine was rebuilt and the mark is 6 degrees off! Make or borrow a piston stop, something that screws into the spark plug hole that will hit the piston. Use only hand power to turn the engine from one extreme to the other. The timing mark should be dead center. I used masking tape on the balancer and marked zero at each point the piston hit the stop, then took a ruler and found center of the marks. Using a hack saw blade, I simply cut a new timing mark for "zero".

Joe

Rotella oil...might be easier to find it that way.

Is that just during the break-in or should you use somethingwith the addatives throughout the engines life?

For sure during break in and at least 300 to 500 miles or till you are sure has loosened up and running fine. For heavy loads or high speed driving it problably wouldn't hurt to keep the same type of oil. For parades and show grounds, just use a good name brand oil. Joe

thanks for the help everyone.