The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Timing Marks

Before I do the final tear down of my engine ( 1959 / 235 ) I would like to know where the timing marks and the distributor should be so that I can put it back correctly. (The bell housing and fly wheel are off the block.)

Okay let me see if this makes sense to you guys. First I have to try to explain this correctly.
When the dizzy rotor is on #1 cylinder the cam gear mark is at 11:00 and the crank gear mark is at 11:00 while # 1 cylinder is at the top of it’s stroke. Both lifters seem to be lowered in to the block indicating compression cycle.

When I rotate the crank 360 degrees so both marks are together ( cam gear mark is at 5:00 & crank gear mark is at 11:00) the dizzy rotor is on #6 cylinder while # 1 cylinder is at the top of it’s stroke. Both lifters seem to be lowered in to the block indicating compression cycle.

I thought the timing marks aligned together ( cam gear mark at 5:00 & crank gear mark at 11:00) And the rotor should be at #1

So as long as I re-assemble it like this then I should be all set ? Right ?

Thanks

clem,

You are "kornfusing" yourself. Just line up the crank gear and the cam gear. The distributor timing is not dependent on those items. Line those marks up, assemble the engine, then when all is completed, you will time the distributor. The flywheel is keyed, it will only go on the correct way.


Stuart

I just went through the same thing. Only I didn't try to deal with it until I had the engine back together and in the truck. All the advice I got from this site said I should line the "ball" on the fly wheel up with the pointer, and then put the distributor rotor in position to line up with the number one plug wire. I don't have a "ball" on my fly wheel, but I do have a circle. I used that, and I think I have the distributor in correctly. I'm now having another problem. I have spark to the coil, and to the distributor, and am getting spark to the plugs, but the spark at the plugs is very weak.
When I got my truck it had been changed to use 12 volts. It had a 12 volt battery in it, and 12 volt headlights, etc. It had set for about 25 years, so naturally nothing worked. I did not use the motor that was in it. The one I used had a starter on it, but that was about all. I used the coil and generator from the motor that came with the truck. There was a resistor mounted on the fire wall in the hot line to the coil. I managed to lose the one that was on the truck, but bought another one and used it. I know almost nothing about wiring a truck, so I have no idea what I have done wrong. Could it be that I am using the wrong coil. Are there 6 volt and 12 volt coils? Should I do away with the resistor? I noticed that the wires to and from the resistor were getting hot, along with the resistor itself. The coil was getting warm. Is this because I was cranking the motor a lot, or does it indicate another problem? My motor is a 1961 model, and I imagine that by that time the trucks came from the factory wired for 12 volts, while my 53 was almost certainly 6 volt. The wiring that was on the truck was in awful condition, so all that has been replaced.
I hate working with anything associated with electricty because I don't understand it, and don't know how to look for problems. About all I know how to do is use a test light to see if I have current. Beyond that, I am lost. Any help would be appreciated very much. Thanks Allen

Clem: You might want to check out the thread I started under "Timing Marks on Fly wheel" No thanks to me, there is a lot of good info there. Allen

Allen,

What kind of starter do you have in your truck? Is it the stomp style or has it been changed to a key actuated/solenoid style.

Do you have a multi-meter or volt meter in your toolbox?

You indicated you don't think the plugs are getting enough poop to start the truck. Will the truck start? Did the truck start? Has the truck run?

I don't want to hijack clems thread, should we go to one of your other post locations???

Stuart

By putting the timing mark (ball or circle)on the flywheel to the pointer, you have a 50/50 chance of getting the distributor in wrong. The mark will line up when number 1 is in firing position and again when number 6 is in firing position. It is best to install the distributor with the valve cover off. If both valves at no.1 are closed you are ready to install the distributor. If one is open and both no.6 valves are closed you need to turn to the mark one more time.

That's cool don't worry about "hijacking" the post. We're all learning here, even for us old timers!

I did get info from another great bunch over at Yahoo old trucks. Try going to www.speedprint.com/deves50/ There is a great explanation on setting up the timing and valve adjustments. Look under How-Tos

Thanks for your help

clem,

You still have me nervous...If you are ripping the engine apart and putting it back together, the ONLY concern right now is to get the cam gear and the crank gear in the proper position. This proper position is with marks on each gear adjacent to each other along an imaginary line drawn through the center of the cam and crank.


It is very simple to do, but very important. There are NO OTHER concerns...just get those two marks together.

Later, after the engine is assembled, sticking the distributor in simple. It doesn't require anything more than the rotation of the engine to set it perfectly.

Don't make this procedure more than it is...you don't have to remember where anything is, write anything down or scribe any lines on anything.

If you line up the two marks on the gears, you are home free. Everything else will be a piece of cake.

Stuart

Just to back up what automarc has said. Timing the camshaft is THE critical step in finishing any motor. Not only because it means being able to start the motor once you go to the trouble of putting it back in the vehicle. But, it also ensures that the valves don't come into contact with the pistons the first time you run the starter, causing serious damage and requiring you to haul the motor (sic) out and rebuild it all over again. It's easy to get confused when your mind gets going, but it's actually not that complicated if you just follow the directions in the MANUAL. Don't try to figure it out, just read the directions.

Stuart and Everyone else. Again thanks for the help. I think Cletis may have found the problem. I do have the valve cover off, but didn't pay any attention to the valves, because I was using the timing mark as a guide. I will check today and see if I am on the wrong end of the motor. To answer your questions, I have a stomp style starter. The truck has been changed to 12 volts. I don't have a multi-meter or a volt meter, because I unfortunately wouldn't know what to do with it if I had one. The truck will not start, I do get and occasional pop, but that is it. The motor was completely rebuilt, so it has yet to run. ANOTHER QUESTION: When I first got the truck, before I did anything at all to it, it had a resistor on the firewall in the line going to the plus side of the coil, with a wire then going from minus side of the coil to the distributor. I noticed when I was cranking it trying to get it to start, the wires to and from the resistor were getting hot, and the coil was getting very warm. Is this normal because I was cranking a lot, or do I have a problem? I now have a starter that I believe was orginally installed on a truck with a 12 Volt system. Do I still need the resistor? Thanks Allen

Allen,

If I am not mistaken, I think you should see two wires on the + side (key) of the coil. One wire should come from the resistor, which you need to keep, and the other wire should come from a small connection on the switch for stomp starter.

If you only have the one wire, it might be a little more difficult to start. If you can, do a side by side comparison of the switches on top of the starter. Hopefully, one will have a extra post (small) hanging out the side

The truck is suppose to start with the full voltage through the wire coming from the starter, then the ignition system runs at a reduced voltage with the juice running through the resistor.

The resistor will get warm..that's voltage in another form, heat!
I am not sure if the coil should be HOT, but is could be warm. The wires to and from shouldn't be hot, but might be a LITTLE warm.

If this engine is brand new, and hasn't run, there is a list of things that should have been done to get it ready to start. If all these items were done correctly....correctly, the old girl should have started on almost the first try.

Does someone have a "things to do" list and have they been done. Next time you are at the hardware store, or Harbor Freight, pick up a cheap meter and/or a 12 v automotive voltage probe..you can easily learn to use them and they make life much more pleasant.


Stuart

Stuart: The switch on the starter has only one post. I put in all new wiring,and in the instructions I today found a section that says if I am using a 12 volt system I will need a different switch which apparently does have an extra post. The resistor is getting more than warm, and the wires also are getting more than warm. I was working with the truck a little today, and I think I was setting the fly wheel for top center on cylinder 6. I moved it around one turn, and it still would not start, but it was backfiring through the carberator, which makes me think everything needs to be retarded. Do you agree with that? I have done everything I know of that should be done before starting it. I have charged the oil pump with a drill, and think that is OK. I had oil seeping out the top of the rockers, so it should be getting everywhere else. Do you know of anything in particular that I should be doing. I'm new at this so any help would be appreciated. On a different subject: How much oil does it take to fill the motor, when a new filter is being installed. When I had the motor cooked out they took out the tube that holds the dip stick, and I don't know how far it should be driven in. I can't find anything in my shop manual that tells me how much to use. I put in 5 quarts on the theory that much should be enough to avoid any damage from low oil, but would probably would not over fill it.

I won't attempt to figure it all out for ya Allen, but the 12v stomp starter has more than one post - big one is battery, small one on the side that goes to the coil, and when it's stomped, the small wire puts the full 12v to the coil - when it's running, the juice goes thru the ign sw, then thru the resistor to the coil - the resistor should not get hot when just cranking - if you don't have that bypass setup then you may not be getting enuff juice to the coil to get enuff spark at the plug - you can temporarily put a jumper across the resistor to bypass it, just don't run it for long that way

5 qts is what it should take

Bill

Allen,

It sounds like you are making very good progress. I am not sure if you have or have not had the rig actually running, but here are some thoughts.

I think you were perfect in regards to the oil quantity. I don't know for sure, but until you verify it, 5 quarts would be safe.

As I mentioned earlier, the resistor does get hot, that's how it works. How hot..I don't know. I wouldn't think the wires leading to it and from it should get hot, but again, I don't know.

After you install the new switch at the starter, a wire will go from the new little post to the + side of the coil. This wire will give full voltage to the coil under a "start" mode, then the wire going through the resistor will supply reduced voltage when the engine is running. Depending on how the truck is wired, you could have two leads on the + side of the coil.

I like to time the engine a little differently than most folks...especially when a stomp starter is involved. I pull all the plugs and turn the engine over with the fan. Put your finger over #1 spark plug hole (nearest fan) and you will feel the air rush out as it comes up on its compression stroke.

Lay a flashlight or trouble light on the engine so you can see into the bellhousing at the marks on the flywheel. As you slowly pull the fan over and the air starts to whistle by your finger, go slow and watch the timing hole..presto, the mark will pop into view....this is TDC #1.

Now you insert the distributor..you actually only care that the tang engages the oil pump. If not engaged the distributor won't seat so you will know when it's right.

If you want to get fancy when you do this, leave the rotor on (cap off) and make the rotor point to the approximate location of the front cylinder. I can't remember who said this...maybe WRENCHBENDER..I think this is how the real mechanics did it.

When the distributor is in and seated with the oil pump, find the mid point of its rotational adjustment, and snug it down. Put the rotor on and put a little mark on the distributor case showing where the rotor is pointing. When you put the cap on, one of the towers (on the cap) will be close to the mark you make..presto, that is now the official plug wire location for cylinder #1.

Following the direction of rotation for the distributor, stick the wires into the cap, following your firing order, which you have on a piece of paper next to you. If you want you can mark them somehow, or just put the plugs back in and attach the wire to the plug.

You can go a step further by actually static timing the points to just start to open on #1, or when ready to start, just watch the engine. If it is too advanced, it will burp and try to start backward. The distributor is only snug, so you can retard it...or advance it, as needed.


If the valves are set, the timing is set, the points are set and there is fuel, it will do something. Be sure on your firing order...check it at least twice making sure you going with the rotation of the rotor. Make sure you have your throttle return spring on...

If you have oil, water, fuel, a charged battery, and some luck, your next post will be "IT'S ALIVE".

I hope I haven't insulted your intelligence in any way by clunking through these procedures a step at a time...I approach problems this way and it usually gets positive results.


Stuart

Bill and Stuart: Thanks again. I have done most of the things you mentioned. You certainly haven't insulted my intelligence by being detailed. I have found that one problem in getting or giving directions for anything is that the person giving them will assume the person asking the questions knows more than he does.

I definetly only have one post on the starter switch, but who knows where the motor and the starter and switch have been in the last 50 plus years, or what has been done to it.

For some reason things are getting hotter than I think they should be, but maybe I'm making something out of nothing, I've been known to do that.

The mention of the direction of movement of the rotor made a light come on. I went clockwise with the firing order. If that is wrong then no wonder it won't start. The only wire that would be correct would be number one. I just assumed it would be clockwise because that seemed natural and never really gave it a thought that it could be wrong. It will be easy enough to check, but do you remember which way it should be? Right now that seems a logical thing to check, because it is backfiring through the carbertor, but I beileve only one cylinder is doing that. Allen

Allen,

You are correct, the distributor rotation is clockwise. The circuit with the resistor that goes to the coil must be switched..it if OFF when the key is off. Did you put a new condenser in when you did the points. If couldn't be shorting to the post or the distributor base plate could it?


Stuart

Stuart: I have it connected to the switch. It goes dead when the switch is off. I did put in a new condenser with the points. As for the short, I'm not sure but I don't think so.

I really believe I am doing something wrong with the timing, but I don't know what it is. When I get the 1 cylinder on what I think is top center, I get a different reaction depending where I set the fly wheel before installing the distributor.

I didn't have much time to bother with it today, but I did try setting it so the spark would be very retarded. At least I think that is what I have done. There is one mark to the left of the round circle. I put the pointer on that and installed the distributor. That killed everything. I didn't even get a backfire.

It is a lot of bother, but I am going to try working my way the other direction, a little at a time, and see if I can find the sweet spot. If that doesn't work, I'm not sure where to go next.

It almost seems it has to be the time. I know I am getting gas to the motor, and I am getting at least some spark, because at times I get at least a pop out of it, and at times I have had it backfire through the carberator, and it would take a spark to do that.

I appreciate your time with this. It has almost turned into a book. I will let you know what happens. Thanks Allen

Allen,

You are the one doing the work..I am just doing the typing..

The marks on flywheel are there as sort of a convenience..if you don't want to use them, or think they are screwy, don't use them. If you have the time, and this is truly a timing issue, you can dink around with the distributor.

If you play long enough, you can get it running, then tune the engine by ear or performance.

It isn't uncommon for a gear head to grab his distributor wrench and head for the nearest hill to hand tune his engine under a load.

Keep at it, we are all waiting for the exciting end of this story. Just for the record Allen, I enjoy helping my fellow human being.

Stuart

Allen,

I'm back! Your statements about the coil getting hot are strange. I think you have to be passing current for the coil, resistor and wires to get warm. It might pay to inspect the wires again, especially the coil wire going to the distributor, and the post where it goes through the housing.

Stuart

Stuart: Thanks again for sticking with me through this. The mystery is solved. Yesterday I used the triangle on the fly wheel to set up the distributor. Hooked everything up, poured just a little gas in the carberator, turned the motor over about two times with the starter,it started, and ran just fine.

Everyone told me to use the ball. I don't have a ball. I have a triangle, 3 or 4 straight marks, a circle, and another straight mark. Because everyone was talking about a ball, I assumed the circle took the place of the ball. Wrong: I don't know why my flywheel seems to be different from most others, but it is now running, and seems to be fine.

As for the heat in the wires and the coil. I'm not sure, but I think it was because I was cranking a lot and drawing a lot of current through the resistor and the wires. I think the same thing applies to the coil. Yesterday after I got it running I let it run for the better part of an hour. The resistor got pretty warm. I could put my finger on it, but it was uncomfortable to hold it there. The wires did not get hot, and the coil seemed fine.

After it ran a little while I looked under it, and saw an oil leak. I was about ready to cry, but when I took a better look at it, I'm almost sure the drip is from the connection that goes to the oil filter. Not too hard to fix. So far everything else seemed fine. I holding my breath. This is my first time doing anything like this, and I'm a litle nervous about it.

Again, Thanks for sticking with me through this. Allen

Allen,

I am happy for you. It's running just in time to do a little Christmas shopping. Don't forget some nice new tools for yourself.


Stuart

Allen,

Not sure why this would make you feel better, but I thought I'd share my current project with you: Timing a Waukesha F817G engine in a Fire Truck. This engine is blessed with TWO frappin' distributors that need to be timed. To read the timing mark on the flywheel, I have to stick my head into the pump compartment. And no, there's NO WAY to turn this engine over by hand! (817 is the size of the motor - HUGE!)

After taking out both distributors, cleaning and setting the gap on the bench, and setting the advance with a meter to TDC, per the manual, the thing still doesn't want to start! Sheesh . . . wish I had a "MAGIC TRIANGLE" on MY motor . . .

Glad you're back in business!

-Michael

Mikestem,

That's what you get for working on an engine with a name that can't be pronounced or spelled on the first 5 tries...a huge engine at that!

I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish, or if this is applicable, but sticking a dowel or long screwdriver into the #1 spark plug hole and watching it raise to TDC has been done more than once under the shade tree.


Stuart

Mikestem what position did you stop the engine at when you removed the distributors? ....ronnie

THis thread has been pretty extensive. Still my two cents are this:

Go to a hotrod shop and buy a Small Block Chevy timing cover timing pointer. Sometimes they are serated looking. Cut them with tin snips so they make a point that lines up with your crank pully. This will bolt to your timing cover no problem.

Pull the #1 spark plug, stick a screw driver in there and slowly turn the crank. When the piston touches the screw driver you are at that mythical place called "TOP DEAD CENTER" (TDC).

Draw a line on your crankshaft pulley. Break out a hack saw or file and file a mark onto the pulley.

Stick your distributor into the engine. Turn it till the star wheel lines up with the outer ring. Note which direction the rotor contact points. Put on the cap on. Wherever the rotor contact pointed will be where you connect the #1 spark plug wire. Now going around clock wise hook up the others in the firing order.

Your engine is now 'static timed' and you have a reference on the crank pulley to work with instead of peering through the bellhousing onto the flywheel.

Got some extra time? Take off the pulley and degree it manually, marking 10, 20 30 and 40 degrees. Cut those hash marks in with a hack saw (not too deep, depth of the width of a penny is plenty). Now when you are setting the timing you've got some references to work with.

Hope this helps someone!

PS-

Draw the line on the pulley where it lines up with the pointer.

Don't want to buy a pointer? Make one from coathanger. All you need is something that points to a spot on the crank pulley that doesn't move and you can see with everything in place.

Stuart,

Yeah, you're right . . . I've heard more mis-pronunciations of that motor than I can remember . . . "Wah-keesha", "Wah-hoosah", etc. Anyway, I'm growing to love the da&! thing, despite it's difficulties.

Last-night I finally pulled the front valve cover, verified that both ex. and int. valves were closed at what I thought was TDC. Still wouldn't run. I said &*%$ it, put the cover back on, and started advancing one distributor a little at a time. Finally got it to fire right up, manually twisted the dizzy at idle till it sounded strong, tightened it down, shut it down, turned off that ignition and turned on the other one, did the same thing. Now it jumps to life without even thinking!!!!!

Moral of the story . . . don't always live and die by the manual. I went to a LOT of trouble following the WAUKESHA service manual TO THE LETTER. Turned out, I would have been better just roughing it from the get go. Not sure if this applies to my Stovebolts or not.

Soooo . . . Getting back to topic, my question is this:

How do you KNOW when you've got the timing advanced correctly, IF YOU CAN'T RELY ON FLYWHEEL MARKINGS?! In other words, what reveals the best setting: Is it highest vacuum at idle? Highest rpms at idle? AND, what technically determines idle speed? Is it a given rpm, or is it just when the throttle is fully closed?

This just shows that "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing" . . .

-Michael

Michael,

Congrats, a huge accomplishment on a huge engine!. I'm sure Waukesha has specs for this beast, but here are my thoughts. Old stovebolts usually idled at around 500 RPM. It probably depends on how the engine is engineered. Your big Waukesha might be different...it's sort of a tune by ear deal, whatever sounds good!

The timing issue is about the same. Although the engine was designed to work best at a specific degree of advance, this is not etched in stone. Most agree that more advance is better, it tends to make more power. More advance will usually make a engine run hotter, and under a heavy load, ping...these two items can be used to tune the engine.

You don't want to effect idle speed by turning the distributor, you will end up losing advance. Highest idle RPM using distributor timing isn't correct.

You tune your carburetor's idle circuit to achieve maximum RPM, then set the RPM as desired with the idle stop screw (?).

As I read what I wrote, I am not sure I actually answered your original timing question. On a "conventional" gas engine, acceptable timing can be achieved by advancing until increased engine temp is observed, and/or the engine starts to pre-ignite..ping, under a moderate load. These methods are in lieu of using factory timing specs.

On your engine, I would try to find the factory specs and tune to them. I don't know if there are true "timing marks" that can be viewed when the engine is running, but those would be the ones to use.

Some of the industrial type engines had holes that lined up and a pin was inserted into them, and the system was tuned from there. If you have "viewable" timing marks, and can attach a light to #1 cylinder, I think this would be the best way. Hope some of this makes sense and good luck.

Stuart

Stuart,

Great reply. Just talking with others about this stuff helps.

I know in this case it's not stovebolt, but I'll continue the thread in hopes it's still helpful to someone, not just me.

Naturally, there's no viewable timing marks (that I KNOW of) on this engine. The manual says to set to TDC, set points to JUST start opening, and you're done. There's no vacuum advance, just cetrifugal. Sounds easy, right?!

Well, that's what DIDN'T work for me. Manually advancing the dizzys did the trick, but, not having done this before, I was surprised at the RPM increase I could effect. I'm guessing that theoretically, I could, at idle, keep advancing until it was so far ahead, it would backfire, or just not run?!

One of my two tachs (there's one on the pump panel as well - what fun!) read around 800 or so when I thought it sounded strong. Seems high to me, but I haven't worked on the carbs, which are a pair of one-barrel Zeniths.

SOOOO, I should probably adjust the carbs for smooth running at idle, set idle at factory rpm (have to research that!), THEN adjust advance?

Since it's hardly likely I could determine "ping" under load (fun trying to manually advance two distributors while flyin' down the road - maybe I could go "lights and siren"!), I suppose what I will do is drive it some as is, see how it seems, and adjust accordingly.

ONE more symptom: WHEN WARM, the engine runs on ("diesels"), not wanting to die. (LOVE that emotion in a truck!!!). I've been told that CAN mean too much advance.

I don't much care for its death rattle, sortof a pain to put it in gear and ease the clutch out to kill it.

I'm rambling . . . sorry. It's all just SOOOO interesting! ;-)

-Michael

Dieseling is caused by to fast of an idle. that could be from too much advance... but advance the most you can till it starts to kick when you try to start it when its hot... then if it kicks,,then you can back it down... you could do that with both distributors.... Timing in fine print also depends on altitude, more advanced at higher altitudes 2 degrees per 1000 feet above sea level is typical... timing is relative... most timing specs are for 80 degress ambient temperature with a relative humidity at like 50% and at sea level...thats why its adjustable...hehehehe. uhhhhhhh time it first ,,ignore idle speed,,and when the timing is right then you set the idle at the carb....then it wont diesel either....you will get the best effiecency with the timing advanced as far as it will go without pinging or starting hard.... now if you need to lug that engine...then retard it some...

Yuh know, is there EVER just ONE issue with old trucks?!

I'd be happy to adjust my idle speed downward. It's just that the throttle linkage seems to hang up somewhere when coming down. So I can pull the accelerator pedal BACK to get it down all the way, but it won't do it on its own. Of course, the throttle linkage on this cab-forward is absolutely hellacious . . .

Can you please define "Pinging" for me? What it sounds like, and what causes it?

I'm not bloody likely to add altitude and ambient temperature to the equation right now . . . St. Louis is blessedly not that high. Of course, it IS around 10 degrees outside right now, but I was silly enough to buy a garage which I can keep heated above freezing.

Sheesh, I can't wait to get back to working on my '41 Chevy . . . surely, it will seem like A BREEZE after this monstrosity . . .

Michael

Michael,

In regards to "run-on" or dieseling, I was always under the impression that it was caused by a piece of carbon, or some other "hot spot" in the combustion chamber. It would be like a little spark plug you couldn't turn off. If the throttle was held partially open, as you indicate in the above post, fuel would be supplied and auto ignition would take place.

I think a fix for this would be to get the carburetor linkage adjusted so the throttle plate closes when you release the accelerator, and run some top end cleaner through the motor.

I have never figured out any relationship between excessive advance and engine run on..maybe elevated cylinder temps. This isn't one of my favorite theories.

I think the word "pinging" is a descriptor for the sound you hear when your engine detonates too early in the compression stroke...too much advance. There is technical jargon dealing with flame travel, flame front, combustion pressures etc, but I think the bottom line is that your firing the charge a little too early on the compression stroke, and it will make a audible sound...sort of like hitting sauce pan with a spoon??

I have a Motor Manual, and this is what it says for your engine: Ignition timing - distributor, Location-flywheel. A note is added that states "Engines with degree marks instead of stamped marks on flywheel have timing data noted on engine"

There must be a wealth of info for these fire engines out there...try to set it to factory specs and call it good.

Stuart

Mikestem

Regardin the timin on your Waukesha, in the late sixtys when I entered the fire department they were starting to put diesel engines in the new fire engines, in the station I worked at the back up engine was a KW with a Hall Scott engine, several of the stations had trucks with Waukesha engines, the old timer mechanies would come by to check the timin on the gas burners, they were all set the same way- bring number one to TDC, static time the distributor so the points were just starting to open. The carbuators were set on the rich side so that they would lean out when under a load, this would make for some excitin runs as the engines would tend to backfire as you would slow down and then speed up, at night you would see a good three foot flame out the end of the exhaust. The secret to starting these big guys,is to pull the choke all the out turn on the ignition, push the starter button, as soon as it starts to crank push in the choke, do not touch the gas, the engine should fire right off. Once running wait for the oil pressure to stop climbing, if you have enough air pressure to move, then your ready to roll(highway to the danger zone) these were great old trucks and great old engines. Thanks for the menories.

Rob

run they may shine they must