The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop Got the new Motor for the Apache re-do

[IMG]http://thumb19.webshots.net/t/66/766/8/29/18/2373829180100598759xIanCI_th.jpg[/IMG]

Finally found what I hope is a good motor and trans for my 1959 re-do.

I haven't posted on this truck lately, I am still at the bare-frame stage. Next step is to order a new 9" rear and the materials to fab a custom 4-link with Panhard bar, start the front end (Fatman's MII) and get this engine and trans mounted in and see what it going to fit and what isn't. Oh, and get a fuel tank as well. Need all that to figure out where all the crossmembers are going to end up at.

I posted on here a while back for some info on a Gen III motor swap in a TF and no one replied. I did the TCI mustang II front and originally set it up for an old school SBC. I changed my mind got the conversion mounts and it went right in. I will tell you the factory exhaust will not fit unless you want to cut into your frame for clearance. Solution LS block hugger headers or some say F body headers but I have no way to confirm this. Also the factory A/C bracket and compressor hits my motor mount. Try this company, http://www.kwikperf.com/lsx_ac.html for that. With the new trans mount at a fixed height it barely contacts the trans cover, so a little modification it will work. If you position the block all the way back you can easily clear your stock fan from the rad.
Thats about where I'm at, now its time for the harness, computer, fuel delivery system, etc...
P.S. I you find any swap writeups let me know, I couldn't find anything for a TF swap.

Oh yeah one other important thing, the truck oil pan sits pretty low compared to a stock SBC pan. I've got to find out if the F body or Vette pan is better. With about 6 inches of drop in the must II front it looks like the speed bumps would hurt!

FireDriver,

F-body pan is 5.25" deep, truck pan is 8.5". Vette pan is 4.75" deep, but has "bat wings" on the side of it and is 21" wide. Corvette pan is supposed to be the fit for MII front-ends.

Street & Performance is supposed to have LS headers for TF trucks, I looked on their website and it is hard to confirm that.

I haven't gotten that far along. One thing is that I can weld in my mounts wherever, I can use the LSx stock mounts rather than the LS-to-SBC convertor mounts. Maybe I can thusly avoid some of the issues. Can you cut out your SBC mounts and re-do where the motor goes and avoid some of the fitment problems?

I am afraid that my exhaust and transmission will conflict with the frame-mounted power booster.

Have you ordered "How to Swap GM LS-Series Engines into Almost Anything" by Jefferson Bryant? I just got it and it is relatively informative. (Hence the oil pan measurements I can rattle off to you at will.)

Your AC bracket and compressor hits the motor mount or the MII crossmember?

Also, there are two stock trans covers, just FYI, if that helps.

Finally, if I have to notch my frame here and there I can.

What are you doing for fuel (gas tank and pump)? Do you have a return line Vortec or can you just run one line?

Thanks for the heads up, I appreciate it.

FireD--

Check this out as well.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/789220-58-apache-5-3-4l60e-road.html

I am going to contact this guy and ask about his 4-link. That is my next puzzler...

Good info about the pans. Its nice to have someone to bounce ideas off and learn a few things.
I too used the frame mount booster, the trans crossmember to booster clearance is close but I dont think you'll have a problem. But with the exhaust we will both have to be a little creative. It almost looks easier to run on the outside edge of the frame, with some turnouts in front of the wheels.
As far as redoing my mounts, they are welded and the whole frame powdercoated so that wasn't an option for me. Same concept for notching the frame rails. But don't get me wrong actually it fits well. Like any swap I just have to work out a few kinks. I will order that book though, there seems to be a lack of info on the net.
The fuel delivery system is still in the works, I just got the motor in maybe a week ago. Since I have a Burb I was looking at the side fill alum tank that everyone sells. I also have my stock tank and as a backup could be modified to work. If I go custom the fuel pump would be in sump to cut down on the noise, etc... Yes I need a return line, too.
Lastly the A/C compressor braket needs extensive trimming to work with the conversion mount and after I do that I will really be able to tell if and how much the compressor interferes with the motor mount(the one welded to the frame). The welded-on one is a TCI mount and is tapered. It looks like its going to be close, I may decide to cut a small notch???
I'm going away for a couple days, when I get back I'll post some pics for your professional opinion! If you want any specific pics let me know.

Cool, thanks for the info and I appreciate any help as you are forging ahead of where I am at.

If all else fails on your AC you can move the AC itself as there are a lot of different mounts and drives for the accessories.

Have you seen the Aeromotives "stealth fuel systems" which is a sump box with built-in filter and pump that you weld in to the bottom of a stock or aftermarket (steel) tank? If interested the part number is 18651. Won't work with an aluminum tank and I don't know if they have an aluminum or not, but mainly I wanted to pass on the whole idea of it. Pics of it in an advertisement in this months Super Chevy, I think I have seen it in Hot Rod too.

Good to hear things may clear my booster, I have been worried about that since I bolted that to the frame.

I have found more info on LS/Vortec swaps on www.ls1tech.com than anywhere else. If you look in their hybrids section, these motors have been swapped into almost everything from a Miata on up.

There is one guy (Adrod?) here putting an LS into an Advanced Design truck, but I don't know of any other TF swaps with LS motors on this board.

R-Bo, I joined up. I'll put a shot of my engine mount solution on photobucket. I used the standard V-8 crossmember w/ adaptors to LS1 motor. Everything fit in nicely, and facilitated alignment as I attached it onto engine and lowered it to get position right. Tight but adequate clearance to radiator with pull fan. Used S&P tight tuck headers since I didn't want to notch the frame. Brake booster fits, oil pan is low, but using 17" wheels to bring it up a bit. Low rider look, but not so low that I've had any issues. David

http://s111.photobucket.com/albums/n131/1958_chevy_apache/

So Dave, looks like you used a different crossmember (other than the MII crossmember) for the engine mounts? Looks like in that shot there is (from front to back) the original front crossmember, the MII crossmember, and an engine mount crossmember??

Thanks for pitching in to the conversation. Your truck is a longbed? I like the way it looked in South Dakota. Guess I have an affinity for the old farm trucks.

Yes R-Bo, I used the standard V-8 mount crossmember from Brothers. The thing about this setup is that it allowed me to use all the front parts (including AC) without modification or notching the frame. I trimmed back the original crossmember, welded in the MII, then attached the crossmember to the engine (w/LS1 adapters) and lowered it into place. It's cosmetically not the most elegant solution, but everything fits and it's solid. AC, power steering, custom fitted linkage, frame mounted brake booster. Key to it all was S&P tight tuck headers. Could have used original headers, cats etc. if I'd slightly notched frame on driver's side. I've posted a couple pics at the P-Bucket site that show what I did. Steering linkage took some time to work up, but came out good. Not saying my way is the best, just that it worked well for me.

Griffin radiator with pull fan just sits in well. And yes, I really like the way it looked. If I were to do it again, I might leave it in its original patina, and just re-engineer the drive train. The big split rims were an issue, however. And the 4.75 stump pulling rear-end, and issues associated with it being a 3/4 ton. It is a long bed, yep. A really big puppy. Good luck w/ your build R-Bo. Any way I can help let me know. David

DrD, thanks for adding another perspective. Nice looking ride! Maybe I'll get there one of these years...
In the meantime, a few questions for you.
The Griffin radiator, was it custom or factory style with just the steam line added, etc...?
In your opinion, the tight tuck shorty style headers you have would work better than the Hooker block hugger style?
What did you do for a fuel pump/delivery system?
I couldn't see in the pics, are you running the MII power rack? If so does the factory PS unit supply the correct pressure?
Thanks again.

Hey here are some pics of the mock up.

Notes:
1 1/4" between fan nose and radiator. Even with the extended stock type radiator.
3/4" between edges of motor and firewall.
Trans cover just fits on, may have to weld a tiny hump for a little extra clearance.
A couple pics looking at the frame mount booster from the exhaust perspective, look closley and you can see the crossmember thats why I think the exhaust may have to run just under or to the outside of the framerail.??? Not much room to fish the exhaust thru.
A/C compressor bracket needs trimming to fit to even see if the compressor will clear.

http://s532.photobucket.com/albums/ee325/fyrdriver/LS%20Burb/

driver - that's too much clearance fan to rad, you need a fan shroud or you'll have overheating at idle/low speed

Bill

firedriver, the griffin radator is a factory fit for the '58, I got the optional model with fittings for tranny cooler at the bottom, coolant fittings on passenger side, as is steam fitting. Fit right in, I'd recommend this for LS or late model vortec with automatic. I have not seen the Hooker block huggers so have no opinion there; the S&P worked for me. Folks there were helpful. I'd guess that tight tucks are the way to go in any event, as you are working with limited space to get things in and acceptable steering and brake pedal clearances. I used the S&P setup, Corvette fuel regulator, 2 lines from Rock Valley tank, one line to engine, internal fuel tank pump. At the S&P site, there is an illustration. Yes, it's a MII power rack, it's the Tbird rack ('82-'85 I think), w/ Heidts rack and pinion extension kit. The factory PS unit supplies correct pressure. Essentially, I was able to drop in the 2005 5.3 (Avlanche Flex Fuel) engine in complete. Let me know if you need any clarifications/additional information. Finally, she is a really sweet driver; good luck with your project. DrD.