The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts Towing a Big Bolt fire truck?

I want to tow my firetruck to big events across the east coast maybe as far as Kansas. I've got a brand new Silverado 3500 HD to tow it with. How about a trailer? I'd like to rent one but nobody around here seems to rent a trailer that will load 9640 lbs on it. Truck is also 23+ feet long. I'm not opposed to buying but I'm only planning to use it 5/6 times a year so that seems like a waste of $$$ but then again. What typr trailer to buy: Gooseneck, fifth wheel or regular type? Sizes???

Any thoughts, recommendations or experiances you'll care to share? How about sharing... Thanks.

Bill

A gooseneck with as low a deck as you can get and still get the truck on there.
For long trips you don't want to be pushing any more wind than you have to, so a lower profile is better.
Don't order a trailer that weighs (empty weight) much more than needed, but don't skimp on it either, get good strong axles and great brakes.

Take a look at a tilt deck trailer, works similar to a rollback for loading.. When I'm ready for a gooseneck trailer I'll look pretty hard at one of those.

For the weight of your truck I don't think you can legally use a tag-along trailer. Think 10,000 lb is all you can do without jumping through some hoops.

Grigg

It sounds like once you get a trailer heavy enough to handle the firetruck, plus the firetruck, it may be too much for your 3500. Does your Silverado have a GCWR rating on it?

I believe gooseneck and 5th wheel are the same thing. That is the kind of trailer that I would use.

A bumper pull would NOT be something I would want to pull very far. Load balance is critical on a bumper pull and all the tongue weight is placed on the rear wheels of the towing pickup. A properly placed fifth wheel ball distributes tongue weight to both the front and rear axles of the towing pickup. Fifth wheel trailers are MUCH more stable to tow.

I used to work for a farmer that had a tandem axle gooseneck traler with duals for trailer tires. We used it mostly to haul loader tractors around for our hay grinding business. It had hydraulic disc brakes and was a nice pulling trailer. We also used it to haul lots of other stuff, too. We even went so far as to put a hitch ball near the back of the trailer so we could haul the loader tractor and tow the tub grinder behind the trailer. We were pulling that outfit with a single axle semi, however.

H & H makes a popular trailer that I see a lot of people pulling.

I'd agree with Racecarl . Don't get a bumper pull unless you have to . When I fetched my '50 fire truck which is just a tad smaller than yours - from north centeral Iowa I rented the correct size trailer - borrowed the right sized truck to tow it with and loaded the truck on the trailer just so - but at speeds over 55 mph the trailer got spooky . It ran Great at 53 mph but you hit 55+ and hold on boys. That added almost 4 hours to the tow and some not so fun moments . It could be that I just did not have everything conbobulated just right but if I ever do it again I'll use a gooseneck and get the weight off the bumper. Also it would be Great to see you at the Kansas City truck event ( aka our Annual Reunion ) with or without your truck !
P.S.LOVE your truck !!!

Thanks. I'm not a trailer expert but I read on a trailer hitch site that fifth wheel and goosenecks are diffrent types of hitches. Also the GCWR of my 3500 is 22,000 lbs. Trailer max weight is 14,600lbs.

A local trailer store told me (yesterday) I could tow it with a class five bumper hitch/7 ton trailer but that was a big trailer... Any more thoughts? I do not think pulling my firetruck on the bumper is a good idea...

The 5th Wheel type and the regular gooseneck hitch are two different type of hitches, altho they both are hooked to the center of the truck bed.

I agree, I wouldn't pull it with a bumper hitch.

If the trailer max weight (trailer with truck on it) will be 14,600 and your firetruck weighs 9640, it looks like the trailer itself can weigh up to 4960, if my math is correct, but allowing for various extra gross combined weight (extra passengers, tools, equip, etc) you will want to keep the trailer weight somewhat lower than that.

When it comes to weight, it's nice to be a decent amount under the max, both for legal and safety reasons.

Bill

I also do work with restoring trailers etc.

Fact: Goosneck Trailer (Heaviest Hitch) has a Max 30,000 weight with 7,000 direct Virtical.

I have been looking at a new trailer for my New Coe.

You can find 5th wheels which will handle more weight..

You need to figure the total weight of the truck and Trailer you would like to use. Then you want to make shure you have plenty more of a gap between what you need and the Max that the truck will handle.

Keep in Mind. I say this as you may not know but, the GVW on a truck is for FLAT land. and if you are near the max. you will make it but, you will be going very slow.

If you find that the big picture is more than your truck can handle. another option is a Heavy Equipment company will have a trailer and truck. You may have a chance to rent?

You have a challange.

Good luck

I would like to know why the gooseneck exists along with the fifth wheel. Does one do something better than the other?

Bill, I tow my truck with a low boy gooseneck trailer that has a 20 foot deck. It has a GVW of 14,000 lbs. It was built by Kraftsman trailers in NC. They were great to work with and added a few things that I wanted without charging me much for the changes. For one, since the deck is between the fenders the outside tires on the rear would have been off the trailer. I had them make the deck the same width as the outside width of the fenders. I also had them make heavy duty slide in ramps instead of the fold up kind. I didn't want big ramps sticking up in the air.
I am no expert but I was under the impression the 5th wheel hitches were mainly for camper trailers and goosenecks were for hauling and horse trailers.
I agree with Grigg that the tilt type trailers would be great for loading and unloading but I believe they add to the overall weight of the trailer.
There is no comparison to towing with a gooseneck and bumper pull trailer. My one ton truck pulls my truck and trailer (combined weight with a golf cart on the back of the truck at just under 10,000lbs) like a dream. No tugging or jerking at all.
Here is a shot of my truck and trailer.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1534315513083734483ZrDJqJ?vhost=rides

Good luck,
Bill

Bill,

You are right. In the industry that has been the case. and Most Farmers tend not to want a 5th wheel hitch in the way of the work truck.

So you may have a horse trailer and a trailer to move equipment.

The Gooseneck Units are Cheeper

The 5th wheel allows campers to use more of the avail. space. working on RVs for 9 years now. You will never see a rv with a gooseneck unless it is a horse trailer unit...

Bill,
Like Billy Marlow, I mainly haul my trucks around on a gooseneck. Mine is 20 foot (with a beaver tail). Like the others are saying, a tag along trailer is simply out of the question. The gooseneck is the way to go.

Even though mine is only tandem singles, I am still able to haul same as Billy -- GVW of 14,000 lbs. I did haul a '49 Mack (EH?) Pumper truck about 40 miles once -- waaaaaaaaay over loaded, but it proved the supremacy of the G/N set up (equipment did fine, BTW). Here's a shot of my rig in action hauling Mike Roache's truck.

Billy's trailer is nearly ideal with the low deck (Mine is more of a farm trailer with the deck over the wheels -- gives more useable space on the trailer, but the CG is too high with a tall vehicle. So you will want a low deck and I'd recommend tandem dual wheels to give you the GVW you'll need to haul 10,000 lbs

Pretty rugged g/n trailers can be had in the $4,500 and up price range (I paid $4,500 for mine in '03). When I replace it in a few years, I will seriously consider one of these g/n trailers. I always check out the trailers at shows and I haven't seen any better than these. They're probably pricey, but I doubt you'd ever have to replace it.

You have the right towing vehicle and you have a beautifully restored fire truck -- just don't go cheap on the trailer.

See you in Winchester!

John

John, Do they make a low deck gooseneck with with duals? I think that it would narrow the deck too much to be able to get the front of the truck past the fenders. Another option would be a tri-axle in the same configuration as mine. I have seen this set up on a lot of multi car hauler trailers as well as flat deck trailers.

Billy,

Not sure -- but the wheels and tires on those trailers are the low-profile ones that drop the deck height considerably from a full-sized tire like on my trailer. Just guessing from the one I looked at, I'd say the deck height was a full foot lower than my trailer and maybe 8 inches to a foot taller than yours.

I am not connected in any way to that company, they don't advertise with us nor do I think we even have a link to them -- I was just tremendously impressed with the one I saw in person. And their tandem dual trailer rated for 22,000 lbs for $7,900 seems like a great deal -- all the trailer any of us would ever need -- room for Bills AD pumper AND a golf cart and all the stuff he'd buy at the Macungie swap meet!

I would say, though, that the tandem duals give you back any stability you loose with a higher deck.

But to be honest, when I had Henry's Mack on the trailer, it was pretty stable -- of course, I wasn't taking corners at 60 MPH, either, but I was pretty impressed that we didn't end up on our backs in the ditch.


John

Thanks for the discussion. I've called these folkls and might order one from them after I do more research. They'll paint it red to match my trucks! http://www.kaufmantrailers.com/heavy-equipment-trailer-store/Gooseneck-Equipment/-24Ft,-14,000-lb.-Gooseneck-p18.html

Got to go...

Bill,
That looks roughly equivalent to my trailer -- if you don't mind the height, it should work (not too much margin on the GVW, though...). Be sure to check the length -- you'll want to make sure your rear wheels are on the level part of the deck or the rear end of the truck may not have enough clearance.

Another thing to think about is how the ramps fold up -- will the rear end of the truck hanging out interfere with the ramps folding up into their travel position? On my trailer, we have to remove the ramps and haul them strapped to the trailer bed or in the back of the hauled vehicle if the truck body extends beyond the end of the trailer -- which can be a distinct pain in the patootie as the ramps are HEAVY and are not designed for quick removal/replacement. That trailer may not be an issue as it's a 20-foot flat with a 4-foot dovetail -- which is a little longer than my trailer. Still, I'd spend the extra $60 for the spring assist ramps -- I wish I had that feature!

If you can, you should try driving your truck up onto one of those trailers to make sure the clearances and angles will work for you. The major disadvantage about deck over trailers is that it can be hard to load long wheelbase vehicles without dragging a muffler or driveshaft on the dovetail edge. Also, be careful about scraping the tailboard edge when you go up the ramps.

Another thing to consider is paying the extra money for the "sealed wire harness." My trailer is not sealed, just wires and it has become a major maintenance hassle.

On the spare tire -- before you spend $140 for their spare, consider heading to the junkyard and getting a stock wheel and tire off a mid '80's F-350. If it's the same axle as on my trailer (which it appears to be), it's the same lug pattern/center hole and tire as was stock on my 4WD '85 F-350.

I'd also consider the dual jacks if you ever think you'll be uncoupling the trailer with a load on it. I got the center stand jack on my trailer and it's not optimal if there is much of a load on the trailer.

The deck on the neck -- I have one and the only time I've ever used it was for hauling hay (stacked right, you can get 600 bales on one of these trailers). It's useless weight I'd rather have available for payload. Instead, I'd go for the pop-up dove tail. My trailer has that and I use that feature a lot.

The king pin coupler is so people with 5th wheel RV hitches don't have to have two hitches. I have a flip ball hitch in my truck and it's really nice and trouble free. You do have to get in the bed to secure the trailer, etc, though.

I hope any of this is useful for you.

Regards,
John

I've been told the max distance between the lowboy trailer wheels is 6'10" by law. My truck is about 90" at its widest at the rear duals. I like the lowboy at 21" high but I'm not sure I can get by with 82" at the rear with the outer duals hanging off the side of the trailer when it is loaded. That just doesn't seem safe. As for the trailer weight: I thought the trailer+ load(firetruck) couldn't go above 22,000lbs. The trailer can be 14,600 max so you can have a 14,600 trailer and still load it up to 22,000 lbs total weight. Am I figuring that wrong?

Still researching this thing before I buy one of any kind and size. Thanks all for the help.

Bill, Thats why I added the extra width behind the rear fenders, so my duals wouldn't be hanging off the trailer. It worked out real well. A lot of folks have asked about my set up and liked the idea.
If the trailer you are talking about has a 14,600 max, thats the weight of the trailer plus what you are hauling. So lets say the the trailer weights 4000lbs, you are still under ther trailers max at 13,600 with your 9600lb truck. I' pretty sure this is correct but maybe someone else will chime in and correct me if I'm wrong.
Bill

Billy is correct -- a trailer advertised as "14,000 lbs" means that's the maximum gross weight (trailer plus load). That's pretty standard for the trailers using tandem singles on 7,000 lb axles (each axle is rated for a maximum load of 7,000 lbs of trailer plus whatever is load on the trailer) -- so, two axles gives 14,000 lbs. Three would give you 21,000 and so on. That's why you see tri-axles on the hot-shot car hauler trailers.

At the upper end, the thing you have to watch for is when the maximum combined gross weight (truck plus trailer plus load) of your rig exceeds 26,000 lbs (CDL territory).

A trailer like Billy's would probably be ideal if you can fit between the trailer's fenders with the front of your truck. Whoever you buy from could probably widen the deck aft of the fenders like Billy did so your outer rears aren't hanging in space.

r/s
John

I'll call on Monday to see if they can expand the deck aft of the rear fenders. I'd like to get a 24' trailer so it all fits without any lenght hanging over. Thanks guys I've learned alot.

Good luck with that, Bill -- and I'm looking forward to seeing you at Winchester May 1st. If you haven't registered yet, you might want to do so -- as I recall, the deadline is coming up.

Here the registration page

Regards,
John

My mother-in-law died last night so I didn't call the trailer folks... I'll call in a couple of days after things return to normal.

Condolences, Bill. Hope all goes okay with the arrangements, etc.

Best wishes to your wife -- Please express our sorrow for her loss.

Regards,
John

Bill,

So sorry to hear about your mother-in-law. Not an easy thing. Wishing the best for both you and your wife.

-Michael

Thanks guys. We'll be ok...

We seem to be getting back to normal around here so I'll start looking at a serious trailer purchase. I've looked at many manufacturers’ types and sizes. But in the end, I think I'll go with the 24' lowboy gooseneck(in red) with the wider trailer (modified size to fit the duels) like Bill Marlow has. It seems to work for him so why not me? Plus I think if I stay low it will stop the tailboard from dragging when I load/unload and cut drag when I tow it too. Something like this one: http://www.kaufmantrailers.com/heavy-equipment-trailer-store/Tilt-Trailer-Family/24.5Ft,-14,000-lb.-Wood-Tilt-p15.html Thoughts?

A few more calls to reduce my apprehension and I’ll be ready. My biggest fear is spending 5K and bringing it home only to find it doesn’t fit by six inches… :-)

Bill, are you considering that exact trailer? If so I don't think the tilt section is long enough for your truck. Maybe I am wrong but unless both axles fit on the tilt part you are going to have a problem. What is the wheel base of your truck?

Yes that exact trailer. My truck is 161" or 13.4' The tilt part is 14'6". I think it fits but I too am concerned about the tilt rate. I do like the lack of ramps and the low height.

It should fit OK then. The only time I used a tilt trailer was one that came with a small paving roller I was using. I think the roller was fairly even weight wise front to back and as soon as I cleared the end of the deck (loading) it tilted slowly until it locked flat. Do you have any idea how much the front of your weights compared to the back? I think it will work and Kaufman should be able to answer any concerns you have.
My ramps can be a pain as they are pretty heavy but my goals when I had my trailer built were low weight and I did not want the swing up ramps. In my case the back of bed of my truck actually hangs over the back of my trailer by a couple of inches but has never been a problem.
Good luck, it looks like a real nice trailer.
Bill

Ok. That is good news. They also make it in a 22' version which would leave my tailboard hanging over a foot so that size doesn't seem like a good choice.

Think this over and help me think this through: the tilt part is 14'6" so I have to drive it in one motion to get all my truck tires onto the tilt section before it starts to lower on the hydraulic cylinder. If I miss, I end up with the nose on the trailer and the rear duels on the ground which doesn't see like a real bright outcome.

I guess the hydraulic cylinder rate of lowering on the trailer will determine how swiftly I'll have to load/unload the tilt. However it has a ten foot fixed section so that will hold the heavy cab/engine and most of the firetruck body while traveling but the tilt section pins in place once it is all loaded.

I do not know the sectional weight of the fire truck but the whole thing is 9,640 lbs. I’d guess the cab/motor/tank –front half weights 2x more that the rear. The rear only has the duels & hose bed (there is no hose loaded) so most weight should be in the front half. But I’m not sure and am only guessing…

So does that seem to make sense to you all? Anybody ever use one of the “tilt type” trailers on a big bolt?

If you order the trailer with a full hydraulic tilt, which has an electric driven hydraulic pump, then you can control when and how much it tilts, you have complete control.

You should be fine with that long a tilt section, but I would ask if they can build one with several more feet of tilt, wouldn't hurt.

I've been looking at a very similar trailer, but am still a few years away from buying one. We currently have a tag along 18' flat trailer made by PJ, and it's pretty nice, holds my 6400 just fine.
Here's one of the tilt deck goosenecks they make http://www.pjtrailers.com/detail.cfm?ID=T6
I don't know who makes the better trailer but I'm guessing it's the one you're already looking at.

I did price a Landoll traveling axle trailer, model 300B. http://trans.landoll.com/trailerspecs.cfm?trlrID=39
Took a lot or effort just to get a simple price from them. Had to find a dealer then they work up a quote as if I were really serious and ready to buy one (Told them up front I wanted a ballpark price, and I wasn't ready to buy for over a year) they still called several times to ask questions and try to sell me one.
All I wanted was a guess... and the answer is $34,100 and on top of that add a hydraulic pump and tank kit for the truck. Does look like a nice trailer, but the empty weight is more than I want, about 10,000 lb.
They also make small tilt deck trailers like we're looking at, haven't got a price on one yet, not sure I'll ask as much trouble as getting the first price was. They do look nice though.

Thanks. There is a PJ dealer near here so I might just take a drive down there to look at them. I've got nothing to do in the morning as my wife is headed back to school and I'm on my own again...

PJ give you any prices?

They did, but I forgot. There's a dealer across from the horse center where we got the first trailer. They were priced less that I was expecting to hear, which was good.

Whatever trailer you get order the best/strongest axles and brakes you can get to fit on the trailer you like.

Grigg

Great advice. Thanks. I think the PJ trailers are better quality(and higher priced) than the ones I've been looking at. However I'd like to actually see the trailers before buying one.

I wonder if it really makes a differnce for the amout of times I'll actually use it. I only plan to use it four-six times a year but you get what you pay for...

From what I've seen the PJ trailers are very fairly priced.
Even if you don't use it much you want a nice dependable one, and one that holds it's value when you're ready to sell it.

We've had three different tag along flat trailers, and each one we thought was pretty good at the time and better than the last. The PJ is very nice, and sill affordable, we've had it several years now and have no plans to get rid of it, other than a gooseneck haven't seen anything to trade up for.

There is a PJ tilt deck trailer on I-81 at exit 279 in Edinburg VA, Cook's auto sales, they have dozens of PJ trailers. I've seen it the last several weekends.
The trailer place here in town only has one deck-over tilt deck PJ to look at right now.

Grigg

I'll take a drive and check out the PJ Trailers. The Kaufman's look great but they are about 300 miles away from me. Worth the trip to pick one up, but I really want to put eyes on it prior to buying.

Thanks again.

Bill

I've heard back that the tilt trailer I picked out (see above)will not work on anything with a wheel base bigger than 96" as it will hang up before all the wheels are on the trailer. My firetruck is 161". So I looked at Texas Bragg's (today) and liked most of what I saw and got a price at $6,225. But only brakes on one axle. That seems strange. Any thoughts?

I still have get down to NC to look at the PJ Trailers that were mentioned. Been sick for the last three days and just starting to get on my feet again. Some type of virus but we don't need to go there...

Anybody have a Kaufman trailer they use on a stovebolt? So far, they still seem like the best deal I've found...

Get brakes on both axles for sure, and get the best/strongest brakes and axles that they'll put under the trailer you decide on, order it and wait if that's what it takes.

Grigg

That is what I thought. It has the option of a "second brake axle" but the price is more than I desire to pay before the options begin...

And I have registered for the 1 May Apple Blossom parade in Winchester.

Bill -- Grigg is right, you really need brakes on both axles -- you don't want that firetruck pushing you around going down a hill. It IS strange that brakes on the second axle would be optional. I thought that for most states, it was required to have brakes on both axles if the trailer is rated over 10k.

1 May is coming up fast. I still haven't straightened out my issues yet...

John