The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 261 rebuild

i have a stock 60 261. runs but is low on pressure in #4 and #6. want to rebuild and hop it up a little for my 46 1/2 ton resto rod. just want to know if anyone can recommend any particular parts or vendors that they have used. top to bottom i would like the build to go like this:

848 head w/ new valve and seats ( original rockers and push rods could/should be used?)
check and deck (if necess) head and block (adds to compression anyway)
offenhauser intake w/ dual carbs (i have heard use carbs from 216 motors to avoid over carbueration)
fenton (or similiar headers)
60 over bore (obviously new pistons and rings, will the old rods work, should the crank be ground and balanced?)
3/4 grind cam (new lifters)
new/rebuild oil pump
short shaft water pump and pump relocator (to fit the 46 stock front and radiator)

i believe thats it. have read and asked a lot to come up w/ this set up. this is my first engine rebuild, so any and all info and thoughts are muck appreciated.

thanks...big ed

Ed,

You should have an enjoyable time sorting through the variety of responses that you will get on this one (and reading all the previous posts on this topic).

One thing is certain, the 261 engine is a jewel of a replacement if you want an improvement but want to stay with a stovebolt engine.

848 head w/ new valve and seats ( original rockers and push rods could/should be used?)
> 848 head - Yes, if you have one readily available : just drill the coolant holes to match the 261 - this head nicely increases the compression of the 261 (which is lower than the compression of the 235)
> hardened valve seats - your choice (if you will be high-revving and racing, Yes)
> get new valve springs (Patrick's os a good source of 261 parts and advice)

check and deck (if necess) head and block (adds to compression anyway)
> check - Yes; deck - ??? (others might comment on measured benefits relative to costs)

offenhauser intake w/ dual carbs (i have heard use carbs from 216 motors to avoid over carbueration)
> dual carb manifold - yes, for cool-factor and power
> Offenhauser, Fenton, Clifford, other - your choice (how they look, how they are warmed, and carb mounting posts are points for consideration)
> carbs - I've used original 261 Rochesters and Carter-Webers without problems and with good results (Tom Langdon is a good source for information and parts) - all 216 and pre-1950 235 carbs do not bolt-up to the newer 235 and 261 intakes
> warming - Yes : exhaust gases or cooling system fluid - different intakes and adapter plates work better with coolant vs exhaust gases.

fenton (or similiar headers)
> Yes - whatever suits you (note: new Fentons now seem to come with that black EDP(?) coating (says Chevs of the 40s) - too bad)

60 over bore (obviously new pistons and rings, will the old rods work, should the crank be ground and balanced?)
> 60 over bore - your choice - mine is 60 out of necessity. Some people go for overbore-power; some people are conservative, and leave metal for future rebuilds.

3/4 grind cam (new lifters)
> Your choice - the stock cam is slightly modified from the standard 235 cam (it's nice to state that it was good enough for a 53-55 Corvette's 235) - the measured benefit of a different cam relative to cost would be interesting to see

new/rebuild oil pump
> Yes

short shaft water pump and pump relocator (to fit the 46 stock front and radiator)
> relocator plate - Yes; original-style 1955-1st or earlier pump with the plate has the appropriate shaft length and would be in the correct location (maybe this is what you mean).

- drill the snout of the crankshaft for a balancer tightening bolt
- drill the cam/crank gear cover/etc so the bolts on the lower two bolts may be installed from the outside
- What will you use for the full-flow oil filter (as was standard in 1960 261s)?

Tim

Most likely you have read this old article?

Patrick's

Langdon's

That's a fantastic article I have read over and over again which has provided invaluable information regarding the effects of modifications. My favorite sentence:

After the last test, the engine was removed from the dyno and installed in McGurk's '52 Chev 1/2 ton pickup truck.

It seems you're looking for that period look and Tim's advice is right on I think. If you decide to have a more modern look, consider a small cfm 4bbl and Offy or Clifford intake.I've been rebuilding a former 261 drag motor for some time now and it's always great to hear of other 261 projects in the works.

thanks folks, i am hoping for a large response as well. the more ideas and info, the better the chance of building something really nice.

Do not use carbs for a 216. The bolt spacing is different and will not fit on the Offy manifold.

I sent my 261 to JASPER engines for a rebuild several years ago. It runs like a rocket and has a 75,000 mile warranty!

Check out my Webshots and see what I did....

sweet....nice motor. did you change the water pump to a short shaft or is it original? can you give me some specs on the rebuild as far as measurements and possibly parts manufacturers that were used. if you don't mind me asking, what was the finally cost to have jasper do it. thanks....big ed

big ed,

The first dual carb set-up I tried on a 261 was with dual Rochesters : Driver Side of Engine and Passenger Side of Engine

Then, I had a chance to drive Sweet's Carter-Weber dual carb 261 and decided to put a 261 back into my 1954 Suburban because its old 235 was down to 0-5 psi oil pressure.

When I reached the point of adjusting the dual-carb linkage, Fla54Chevy3100 posted a link to his Carter-Weber set-up on a 235 (and he also has some photos of a dual-Rochester set-up (235?) ).

Here are some photos taken last summer while re-doing my 261 with dual Carter-Webers, Fenton intake, Fenton exhaust, oil-bath air cleaners adapted for modern filter inserts. (part suppliers were linked in my earlier post)

Tim

Ed

I do have the short shaft pump, but I have plans to remove it and install the original using the relocating plate that many have written about. Reason being is that my truck gets a little warm when sitting a idle for a period of time.

The engine is bored .040 over. The nice thing about JASPER is you remove the engine from its source, take all the accessories off, give them the head, block, and oil pan and all parts in between.

They will come pick up the motor, and I had mine back in 3 weeks (over the holidays in fact). They even called and told me they had to replace the oil pan due to corrosion. When I asked how much more that would be they said no charge - they were just curious where I wanted the drain plug location. As far as cost, I don't recall exactly, I think it was around $2300.

this is getting cooler by the post.

TC did you make the oil filter assembly yourself or did you modify some one else's product. a very nice set up. thanks for the links, i will be taking a look at those pics very closely.

sweet what are your plans for the short shaft. if this is a near future swap for your pump, might you be interested in selling it? definitely need one to shoe the 261 into the 46. is your pump a shortened shaft from an ealier 261 or is it an aftermarket pump. i will probably need the relocator plate as well. i have read that the 261 placement in a 46 leaves the pump low and does not draw through the radiator as well as it should.

thanks again for the assistance big ed

ed,

If you use the relocator plate you do not need the special, expensive, short-shaft water pump that bolts right up to the 56-63 blocks without a relocator plate.

With the relocator plate, you would use a less-expensive, standard pre-55-1st water pump with the appropriate pulley belt-width (53-55 have a narrower belt than 52 and earlier pulleys).

For the remote oil filter head and plate, I made the mounting plate from 1/8" or 1/4" aluminum plate and a remote oil filter head from Summitt Racing.

I drilled and tapped a 1/8" npt hole in the top of the plate and installed a 1/8" t-fitting for the oil pressure sender and an oil pressure switch (NAPA MPE OP6626SB) for current to the electric chokes (works for 6v or 12v).

Fitting the oil lines was difficult (short lines) and expensive (AN/NPT fittings/adapters).

Tim

again this stuff is great.

tc,

i don't have the engine w/ me but at present it is stock 60 261. would you happen to have an idea which is the correct pulley width, 52/earlier, or the 53-55. somewhere i vaguely recall talking w/ a pump builder at a swap meet and the mention of the 53-55 vette pump. that was a long time and a few beers ago...fuzzy-memory-idis. really cant say how much i appreciate the help

big ed

ed,

You want the pulleys on your harmonic balancer, alternator/generator, and water pump to match.

So, my guess is that you will want to match to your 1960 harmonic balancer (3/8" belt/pulley) with a 53-55 water pump with relocator plate (go for a 1954 water pump/pulley and avoid confusion).

I'd stay away from a 53-55 235 Corvette water pump because the Master Parts Book shows it as being different (maybe because a special generator/tachometer-drive was used on that Corvette?).

Tim

Looks great Tim. Nice work.

Big Ed,

Here's another article that may interest you:

http://www.inliners.org/tech/261_build.htm

The reason that I can give for doing the water pump swap is exactly as mentioned above. Further if you have not made a choice yet, I would sway you to do as I need to do this winter and get the plate and the pump and install it. It would be much easier to do outside of the truck on an engine stand than in the truck as I will attempt to do.

I would only bore the minimum ,this will allow you future machining of the block.
I have the carter/webers on my 261 and I'm really impressed with them.
You really don't need a fuel pressure regulator when using carter/webers with a stock fuel pump.
Be ready to spend plenty of cash,they are well worth it.

Plan your work,then work your plan.

TC

The 54 water pump i am looking for is a 235 or a 261 pump. or are they the same? I have a 53 powerglide 235 in my garage. was going to use it if i could ever get it unstuck, moisture and years. would that be an acceptable donor pump? i am registering for an engine tech class at the local tech school and if the 235 is no good for donor parts i amy see if the class wants to take a crack at it. so they can see what original automotive power looks like. 99.9% of the people in the class will probably think babbit is a small fuzzy thing w/ a specch problem

sweet,

was taking another look at your pics. how did you set up the engine to lift it? i knhave read to lift it fron 2 specific head bolts, off hand i forget which ones. but what did to use to secure the hoist and leveler to the engine?

was also looking at your carb set up. what are the models and #s for the carter webers you used? i was trying to match my 7015013 rochester and it is proving a bit more difficult than expected.

thanks

big ed

Ed,
here is a link of my 1954 261 with hoist and load leveler.
The head is a 1956 235 848 head.I used the front bolt hole in the head and the second bolt hole from the rear of the exhaust manifold.

engine on hoist

tim,

thanks for the pic. did you bolt directly through the chain links or use some type of securing plate and chain attachment?

a very cool intake set up. what exactly do you have going on there? thanks again big ed

Ed,
I just bolted through the link of chain and used washers on the bolts.It worked out really nice.You can click on my photobucket link to see more pictures.I think there listed under 1954 261 project.

The carbs on my truck now are Carter YF's they are a direct drop in for a Rochester meaning no fuel line mods are needed.

As for lifting the engine, I have an engine hoist with a leveler. These motors are so stout that they can be lifted by any solid bolt connection. I have even seen them lifted by the rocker arm, but I wouldn't do that to a fresh rebuild.

sweet,

i see a lot of people running carter YF's. probably readily available. is there a specific model # you are using? just as there are lots of rochester b's i assume there are many different carters.


big ed

Honestly, I purchased mine from Jim Carter. I exchanged my Rochesters for them.

As many have said, there are a number of ways to do things. My webshots link below has some pictures of the hoist and rebuild of my 261 in the engine rebuild album. Good luck on your rebuild!