The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop Mounting Clifford intake/exhaust

I know there is a million discussions on clifford, but I have a specific question on mounting this combo for some who have done it. I have a 1962 235 engine. The intake is a little thicker than the headers from clifford. They recommend using a "steal washer" and bending it a bit. My question is do I use a grade 8 washer or is a grade 5 washer good? Can I even bend a grade 8 washer in a vise? Also, the 2 end holes on the headers have a couple of studs there. Should I remove the studs and put bolts there? I have the header bolts from clifford. They sent 8 and I only need 6 unless I remove the studs. I know there are probably some options, but I just want to know what others did for this set up. thanks

I use the two end bolts because threading them first makes it easier to hold the manifolds in place as you thread the rest. Either washer will bend,but it has to be the thicker fender style washers. You might consider using a spacer cut fron steel tubing also then use the washer and nut.

Thanks for the advice. Were you able to use the stock throttle linkage? It lookes like it will be pretty tight. I plan on using a Holley 390.

The theory is to turn your 4bbl 90 degrees toward the head so that the carb horn faces the head. To do that you'll need a bell crank which are abot $25 from Mr.Gasket and possibly a carb plate to allow you to make that 90 degree turn. The bell crank allows the throttle mechanism to be located easier. You might want to fab or buy a cable throttle to replace the accerator arm. Most speed catalogs or shops can help you.
You can check this site for info too. www.T6Racing.org

You might also take a look at this Tech Tip on this site.

http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/4bbllinkage.pdf

Paul

Paul, I appreciate that link myself. I didn't know it existed or I just plain missed it before. Nothing like pics to really understand a set up.

On exhaust you would use grade 2 fasteners because the heating and cooling cycle will anneal the material. Starting with Grade 5 or Grade 8 will only cause the washer to eventually soften or crack where you bent it.

I would guess the header bolts are a universal kitted bundle, hence the 8 of them.

i used the stock header HEAVY DUTY 'thingies'/retainer that are found on most intake/exhaust systems you can grind down on one side of them and bolt it to overcome the uneven problem.
it's pretty simple. I have a clifford intake and langdon 3+3 exhaust. it worked for me. i used gd-8 bolts. store bought washers are toooooo thin for this application!!!! i got this idea from inliners tech article.

this is what i did. it's hard to see but there is one retainer in between every flange, vertically mounted.
http://s67.photobucket.com/albums/h298/1951otter/?action=view&current=21A-1.jpg
http://s67.photobucket.com/albums/h298/1951otter/?action=view&current=23A-1.jpg
http://s67.photobucket.com/albums/h298/1951otter/?action=view&current=23A-1.jpg

see inliners, >> http://www.inliners.org/
find >>>> tech tip, >> throttle linkage for link pictures

A common problem on inline engines that have carburetion upgrades is throttle linkage. Most modern carbs are designed to operate by cable throttle, not the primitive rods found on most early engines. The following deals with GM inline sixes but same principles apply. It can also apply to multiple carb installations where two or more carbs are linked together and operated by a single cable. There are certainly many ways to skin a cat, but here is a solution I used after trying several others.

The diagram above shows how a 4-barrel carb should be mounted on an Inline engine. Note that the secondary throttle bores are inboard and parallel with the cylinder alignment. Now, there may be some carbs where this just can’t work, but it is appropriate for most modern (Holley, Edelbrock, etc) 4-barrels. If you mount the carb sideways like a V8 it’s easy to see that fuel distribution is going to be unequal. The engine will run - but you will lay awake at night, just knowing that one end of your motor is getting more than its share of fuel!

Unfortunately, as these carbs are designed for V8 applications, when we mount them on our inlines the geometry for linkage is now all wrong. Rather than a simple "north – south" push / pull action, the cable now has to operate "east – west". If you look at the photos below, you will see how to overcome this problem. The bellcrank on the side of the block is a Mr. Gasket product and carries a part number of 1523. There may be others, or you can make your own. This bellcrank is completely adjustable and sells for about $15. It will require that you turn down the bellcrank stud on the side of the block because it is a smaller diameter than the factory bellcrank. This bellcrank allows you to use the original accelerator pedal (or "Foot Feed" as they used to be called). Just hook the original rod to the lower arm of the bellcrank, as it was on the original. You may be tempted to use a fancy billet "spoon" type gas pedal, but this can lead to problems. On my ’51 GMC truck there was just no way to mount this type of pedal and still have a comfortable driving position. Maybe on a T-bucket or some other kind of roadster it would be OK, but in an old truck, it just makes for a very uncomfortable foot angle.

The photos are mostly self-explanatory but here is a little bit of additional info. By use of the bellcrank you convert the "push" motion of the accelerator rod into a pull motion. So, you attach your cable to the top "pulling" arm of the bellcrank. The cable I used was from Lokar Performance and it is a nice braided stainless piece. A motorcycle cable could probably be used here too, with a little ingenuity. You will have to make a bracket to hold the bellcrank end of the cable sheath. My bracket is painted the same color as the engine so it doesn’t show up too well in the photo, but you can do yours in any convenient place on the side of the engine depending on location of headers, alternator etc. Just be sure that the bellcrank exerts a fairly straight pull on the cable. If it rubs the sheath, it will fray and eventually break. Then you just loop the cable around and hook the other end up to your carb. I found that a linkage bracket from a V8 worked fine, with a little grinding to provide clearance to the intake manifold. Be sure to avoid tight bends in the cable. In the lower photo, note the gentle bend of the cable (just under the oil lines). Final adjustment is done with the cable ends. I did not use any additional spring beyond the carb return springs. This setup has worked faultlessly for several years and many thousands of miles.

Thanks. It helps a lot to see pictures of the different options and how others have it set up. I got the intake/headers mounted with the washers. It worked just fine. But I think I will try turning the stock "thingies" side ways or shortening them like Carolines Truck did. My headers are not as close to the intake as the ones in the picture, so it may not work the same. The links to the throttle linkage tips will help out. Thanks again.

I'm not sure what caroline's truck is telling you. He quoted from the inliners link that says mount the carb with the primaries to the outside and then shows pictures with the primaries inside , next to the valve cover. That puts the carb linkage farther away from the firewall. The fuel inlet is as far away from the fuel pump as you could possibly get it. The idle mixture screws are buried down next the valve cover. The purpose of not putting the carb fore and aft is to balance the distance between each of the intake valves and the primary throttle bores. Placing the primaries inboard assures the worst possible variation in distances between primaries and intake valves. ???
Caroline is showing a 292 and you have a 235.
To answer your question about using the 8 bolts. You said," the 2 end holes on the headers have a couple of studs there" . I am not at all familiar with the 235, but the 250/292 comes with short locator pins/studs on each end of the head and also two long threaded studs on two of the inboard bolt holes. If the 235 has the same locator pins and you are using steel tube headers you will want to use a bolt or better, a threaded stud. The end exhausts will probably leak if you don't. The 250/292 uses two of these threaded studs and two long and four short "thingies". How about we call them clamps? Pictured below is one of the original threaded studs and one of the long clamps.
stud
On my 292 with Clifford intake and tube headers, I used eight of the threaded studs and six short clamps.
DrewP mentioned the difficulty of assembling everything on the side of the head. One advantage of using studs is that everything stays in place by themselves until you are ready to put the nuts on. In this picture of my 292 on the engine stand there is not one nut holding it on. Everything is just sitting there.
I used a cable for throttle linkage. A cable off a mid '70s V8 was long enough that it loops around over the valve cover and then to the carb.
Engine
Throttle cable

I took the threaded pins out so I could use it for the stud. Right now I have fender washer and a grade 8 washer stacked. The fender washer I thought was bending too much with the torque. I used a grade 8 washer to distribute the force. The grade 8 washer alone isn't wide enough in some of the slots to reach both the header and intake. The original clamps didn't work because of the difference in thicknesses of the header and intake. The washers seemed to fall into place a little better.

I did take note about carolines truck's carb facing the wrong way (acording to the tech tip)

just another thought ,when i installed my offenhouser intake with my cast iron langdons headers i just made spacer's out of 3/4 round stock drilled them to fit the stud's and ground a step on one side to lay flat the nut .they worked good ,to get a solid clamp .

stop w/ the nit pickin' C<@P ... Richard
I did not quote anything from anybody OK
I said where it came from and to go read and see photos. I showed him what I did and other ideas. Nothing is set in stone here BUD.

I mounted mine so the throttle cable was outside pulling the cable away from the valve cover, easy for ME.
my adjustments are easy to get to (I'm 6-4) and
I DON'T give a rats rear how far the fuel pump is from my spare tire, Nova Scotia or the sun. :mad:
there is a big difference between what I have and most. just like you.
I don't much care what halton did, it's all pretty relative .. ... Primaries IN Primaries OUT .. a couple milimeters difference BFD
I'm not losing sleep over it.

what I did was link and printed the inliners /halton article, cause davidn probably doesn't
know anything about inliners. so I just gave him more ammo to fill his brain w/ OK
I ain't got no darn race rig here OK.


It's just a dumb old daily driver farm truck.