The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 235 frozen up for 17 years. can't figure it out

Okay, this is a long and interesting story...

My dad has owned this '53 3100 1/2 ton truck for about 20 years. He used to use it pretty regularly. One day, he got done running it, and shut it off (as anyone would do ), and the next time he went to start it (maybe a month later?), it was froze up solid. That was in 1987, i believe, and it had just passed inspection (found the bill in the glove compartment ).

Right away, he tried penetrating oil in the cyl, and rocking it... couldn't budge it. So he rolled it down the alleyway and popped the clutch, and all it would do is drag the tires. So he parked it, bought another truck, and we've moved it 3 times from house to house since.

Now we want to get it running . Spark plugs are out of it, valve covers off, oil pan off, starter off... still can't find anything visibly wrong, and it's still frozen SOLID. At one point, someone (he doesn't remember who) told my dad that there was a two piece bearing in the engine somewhere, and that the halves sometimes rode up on each other and would seize the engine. However, we can't find any such bearing (though we admittedly don't know where to look).

Anyone have any suggestions for this beast? I was happy to find that it was the 235, which supposedly wasn't available in this truck (which means at some point the old 215 probably bit it and another owner swapped in the newer 235). I'll also throw a pic of my dad in the truck for your enjoyment. This was taken just a few months ago when we were moving it to our new house. Looks like he's just out for a drive, eh? -

[img]http://www.king-nerd.com/dood/image...oject%20truck/thumbs/tn_med_IMAG0004.JPG[/img]

THanks for any suggestions,

53_3100

If it is stuck so firmly that popping the clutch while rolling down an alley didn't break it looses, it would be wise to at least pull the head and oil pan and take a look-see inside for serious mechanical issues (like a valve dropping into a cylinder and locking up the piston). You don't want to break anything.

Nice photo - looks like it runs fine!

Steve

From the description of everything you have done, IMHO, it sounds like it may be "hung up" in two gears. I'm not sure you would have to pull the head to see if there is a valve dropped, just pull the valve cover and look to see that all the valves are in place.

Kels

Good looking truck. Yes, you are right, the full pressure 235 wasn't available for that truck. If you took off the oil pan and valvecover already, Those ara light trucks, my tires just skidded aswell. I would pull the head, you can look for rust or animals or whatever. It will give you a better idea of what you are up against. That sounds to simple,just parked it for a month, what would seize it? Where did he park it? When mine was seized, I tried everything, I finally broke down and pulled off the head, saw a little rust and that was it. Everything was off the front except the inner fenders, I welded a BIG nut on the front flywheel (or whatever you call it officially), and cranked on that...easy as peeling a banana (for lack of better phrase). Or you could just remove the manifold and take a look inside. Good Luck, hope I was some help.

If the head cracked or the head gasket gave up the ghost and let the cylinder fillup with water it would lock up tight as you describe. If you remove the head you will probably find a very rusty cylinder. I bought a truck really cheap because the engine was frozen and found a nut had been dropped down the intake manifold and wedged a valve open. I carefully removed the nut put the head back on and promptly sold it for about 6 or 7 times what I paid for it. Jim

It's possible that you have spun a bearing. On the full pressure 235, they are all two piece, insert style bearings, both mains and rods. Since you have the oil pan off, it's fairly easy to check. I would check the mains first, one at a time. Be sure to torque them when you put them back together. Rod bearings can spin, too, so they need checked.

If you have the pre-54 235, splash oiler, the rod bearings are poured babbit, which deform easier than the insert style. It is possible to have one egged out enough for the rod to be stuck so the engine will not rotate. I had that happen on a 216. Engine turned over after the rod caps were loosened.

Okay, you've given us some things to go on. I think the first thing we're going to do is pull the head. Seems like the most logical place to start. We've already looked around the bottom end of the engine and can't see anything.

Also, on the top of the engine is a code of 3835913, which I Googled to find is a 1954 235. On the passenger side of the engine I found two stampings down low. One is "CON3" and the other is "E144" . The E144 I'm guessing is the date code for this engine, corresponding to May 14, 1954.

Regardless of whether we get it freed up easily enough, I think the truck still has a LONG way to go before it's ready to move. Also, the trans is free to shift in and out of gears, as we had to do so to get it up on the rollback. Seems everything works but the engine!

Here's another pic for your enjoyment.

[img]http://www.king-nerd.com/dood/images/truck/53chev/before/IMAG0005.JPG[/img]

[img]http://www.king-nerd.com/dood/images/truck/53chev/before/IMAG0026.JPG[/img]
It sat like this for the past 9 years (with the hood closed)

Prior to that (from 1987 'til 1996 or so) it sat in a garage...

toast - needs complete dissassembly and rebuild to get the bugs out and clean up all the rust caused by condensation which will have coated nearly everything

also, 53, the policy here is to link to the pictures rather than to put them 'in line' to conserve the 'bolts server bandwidth and costs

Bill

Ah, well... that's not so good news.

Thanks for the "policy" on linking pics, though I don't see how it's costing stovebolt.com anything.... they're still hosted on my personal webserver. I suppose it's still a bit annoying for those still on Dialup to have to download my pics, so I'll link them from now on.

Are you sure the original problem wasn't just a jammed starter?

Baldy

has to do w/ the charges they/we pay for the amount of downloading that happens from the 'bolt server - you host the pics, but this server has to fetch them to display on the thread, where if it's a link, then it's on your host and the viewers only

Bill

Before taking the motor apart pull the distributor and see if its siezed,I was taking to someone who has a 54 corvette with the original 235 and the distributor siezed up while driving it. Usually when a distributor siezes it will break the gear but since it ran untill shut off it might of just made it home when it siezed if thats the case. Jeff

Baldy- The starter was removed back when it first seized... my dad tried taking a pry bar and turning the engine tooth by tooth afer removing the starter, but it wouldn't budge at all.

red58- alright, I'll link 'em from now on.

Jeff- We'll try that, thanks. I don't believe we ever removed the distributer...

I am wondering if it is possible for a broken timing gear to allow the cam lobes to stop in a position such that there is a clearance problem somewhere? Also, you may be able to tap the bottom ends of the rods back and forth and eliminate them from the list.

Quick question... can you still buy the cartridge-style oil filters for these engines? I would assume so, but don't have the slightest clue where to look...

NAPA or such - got an old one to get a number off?
if not get the measurements from the holder can and see if this will fit: Purolator L30034 [replaces:R34], it fits mine

Bill

Yes, it does still have the old one in it, so I can try to find a P/N to pull off of it.

That should be easy to find. The thing to keep an eye open for is that you get a new rubber gasket with the filter.

Question: Has anyone tried to pry the engine in reverse rotation a little bit?

Yes, my dad tried prying the engine in both directions back when it first seized (after he removed the starter... stuck a flat-ended prybar in and tried to move it using the teeth in there...

How hard is it to reset the timing after removing the distributer? My dad never removed the distributer because he was afraid he'd never me able to get it timed right again.

For me I would say that it is a snap. You just rotate the crankshaft until the ball on the flywheel is at the mark in the hole by the starter, and make sure that #1 valves are both closed, that is there is play in both rockers. If the valves are not closed, rotate the crankshaft 360 deg. Then point the distributor rotor to #1 and slide it back in.

53,
I forgot to say what great photos those are. That is a real truck and it is just itching to go, I can tell!