The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts 10k truck, 10k trailer... Brake Suggestions?

I have searched quite a bit. From what i have gathered is our factory brakes on the 1.5 Ton and up simply can't take highway speeds and momentum from this size load. Granted the 1.5 Ton will be lighter when I am done, but I always OVER-BUILD things. Better to have it too capable than incapable.

So basically I want to see if there is any other info or insight on this subject other than what i have read thus far.

Search for Grigg's threads on modifying his 6400. That's probably the best way to go on one of these trucks. The other approach would be to move the cab onto a modern frame with brakes up to the job.

Just wondering if you are talking about old trucks in general or your particular truck. I used to drive the old trucks, '60 to '72 models, when they weren't "old" and I never had any problems with brakes. But I was happy with 55-65 MPH Hi-way speeds back then. If you are talking '59 or older, I don't have much experience with big truck brakes. I do remember driving a '53 3/4 ton flatbed with brakes so poor that I really needed to adjust the way I drove it.

Bill

Brakes made a big step forward from the 50's to the 60's. In the 50's it was common to go down a hill at 70 mph full well knowing that the vehicle couldn't be stopped in an emergency. But there wasn't much traffic in those days and you could usually find a way to steer around an obstacle. And wrecks were just a way of life for truck drivers. All of that has changed. If you are going to get into heavy traffic at highway speeds, I would recommend upgrading the brakes. I have the brakes that came on all of my old vehicles, but I stay out of heavy traffic with them. I have a several 2 ton and larger. I don't use them for anything than just to play with. One of my trucks is a 53 GMC that was still hauling grain from the farm to the elevator a couple of years ago. But it was in farming country and probably was never driven over 45 mph. Even though I grew up driving one of these things, I would never dream of putting 200 bushels of corn on it and heading out on the Interstate.

I can't tell what truck you have?
If it is an AD (Advanced Design) then I would recommend the brakes I have on my truck, which come from a GM P30 chassis, like a bread truck. They allow you to use stock 55 and later 10 lug 20" wheels if that is important to you.

If you have a 55 or later then I would seriously consider the axles/brakes from a Chevy Top Kick, or a similar sized Freightliner, these are large hydraulic disc brakes with dual piston calipers. I used a TopKick front axle, and a Freightliner rear axle, both Rockwell brand, in a 61 F350, and they worked great. The truck weighed 10,000 lb empty, and I easily flat towed and safely stopped a 55 GMC COE that weighed something over 7,000lb, and an additional 3,000 lb in the bed of my truck, so total around 20-23,000 lb estimated.
I drove carefully, and did not need the brakes much, but if I did they were there and worked extremely well even with that much weight.

Reason I don't recommend the medium duty truck axles for the pre 55 trucks is the narrow width of the truck and the wide axles don't work out so well. The post 55 trucks are enough wider to make the larger axles fit, but with some work- usually involves narrowing the front axle.

Grigg

You answered every question I had. I know what i need to look for now.

Also my rig is a 1949 1.5 ton. I thought I had added that but got pulled away from the comp before I could proof read.

Thanks again.

The P30 brake upgrade is not an easy swap, you need to narrow the front axle. John and I have a Tech Tip about it in the works, hopefully it will be done soon.

Grigg

Nothing worth doing is ever TRULY easy.

Ok so with a quick search of the area I found a complete 1977 Freightliner sans the engine, trans and seats.

I also found a 66 GMC 1.5ton for $300 less than the freightliner.

Grigg.... Suggestions for my project?

Keep looking.. here is a section from the yet to be released tech tip on this axle swap:

The P-30's come with a variety of axle set ups. I have seen all of the following on P-30 chassis, or on chassis very similar to (I did not read all the tags):
• A -- 5-lug front 10-lug rear I-beam front, Dana 70HD, Dana 80, or Rockwell rear.
• B -- 5-lug front independent suspension, 10-lug rear, similar rear choices as above.
• C -- 8-lug front and rear with I-beam front, very few of these, and probably Dana 70, 70HD, or a 14-bolt rear.
• D -- 8-lug front and rear with independent front suspension (one of the most common 8-lug P-30 chassis) and probably the same rear axle choices as the I-beam front axle version.
The one of interest for an AD 1.5 or 2 ton is Choice A -- an I-beam front with 5 lugs and a Dana rear with 10 lugs. The Rockwell is not such a good choice as fast gears are either not available ever, or hard to get/expensive. You can quickly spot a Rockwell by the square axle "tubes."
The 5/10-lug axle pairs should have disc brakes all the way around, as I have not seen them any other way (other than our antique trucks). These axle combinations come from trucks with an approximate 14,000 lb GVW, so more than your 1.5 ton AD, and slightly less than your 2 ton AD truck. Here is an example of axles ready to be installed, note the large disc brakes front and rear: http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1484193568080251109uMNsAt

Grigg

thanks... I have found a few P30's but none are trashed enough to be considered salvage and thus more than i want to pay for a driveline.

Ever consider an International Bus?

The IH bus is likely as wide as the topkick, so same thing applies there, it's to big for an AD.
I searched for months trying to find a suitable front axle for my truck, I ended up with the axle from a 3500HD, and later found out I probably should have found a P30, as they are very nearly the same, but enough different that it would have been helpful.
It's been several years sense I completed that first axle swap, and I have been continually searching for other different and more suitable axles, and I keep going back to the P30, even picked up one for my 48 when I'm ready to upgrade.

I'm open to new ideas, so take your tape measure with you and let us know what you find that looks suitable, but pay particular attention to the 5/10 lug P30 chassis.

Grigg

If you have the original engine in it,you're not going to be going fast enough to need more brakes. Does your truck have a hydrovac on it. If not, that will do wonders for braking. I have a 2 ton and a 2 1/5 ton GMC with hydrovac and they have all the stopping power I feel like I need. If you want to get the truck ready so you can use it within a reasonable time, I wouldn't attempt any of the modifications that require narrowing the steering axle. It's doable, but its a lot of work that I think is unnecessary for a truck that you want to actually use but yet have the novelty of driving a 60 year old truck.

454 big block, potentially supercharged later on powered by either a TH400 (which I already have) or a late model Allison.

So yes... it will be able to do 65+. With the power this 454 is capable of; 100+ is not a challenge. Granted I will limit the truck to 70mph via governor.

Based on my own experience with a 6000 pound pickup pulling a 6000 pound trailer, powered by a 454 backed by a TH 400 I'd believe 100+ is possible with a modified motor, though either that motor will be screaming, or your rear gears will be less than ideal for pulling.

I'm not sure mine would have done 100. Using an online calculater and tire size from memory, mine would have been turning 4400 at 100. This was with a stock TBI 454 and 4.11 gears and 265/75-16s. I never drove it that fast even empty.

I ran mine loaded across some states with 75 mph speed limits and probably ran 80 plus at times. Fuel consumption was significant and I would agree a focus on good brakes is absolutely necessary.

Exactly. I have good tires for it. Well I have the tires... they aren't on it yet due to the right front wheel not wanting to come off. I think the studs are bent.

But once I have tires the brakes come next. It's easy to make more power. Especially with a BBC... it's a whole nother story to get it stopped safely.