The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay 1964 c-60 292 cu.in altenator not charging batter

i have a problem wih trying to get the altenator to put out a charge to battery the altenator is new and does work new battery and voltage regulator anyone know why the altenator is not charging the battery

joek3167,

This combination is sort of tricky to troubleshoot. If you have a meter I would see what your voltage output is at the large BATT lug on the back of the alternator and at the battery itself.

Your DA plug should have two terminals...R and F. When you turn the key ON, you should hear the regulator "click" and the wire that goes to terminal F should have around 12 volts on it.

If you take a small jumper wire and run it from the large BATT lug to the F terminal (on the alternator), you can put the alternator into full charge. With a voltmeter attached to the large BATT lug, you should see this. This indicates the alternator is capable of charging.

Does your truck have a GEN light in it? When you turn the key ON, does the light come on?

If you arent' comfortable with any of this, you can take the alternator back to your supplier and ask him if he can test it.

The regulator is a different story. Without special knowledge, about the only thing you can do is replace it. Don't do this until you make sure the wiring around the little DA plug is good and it is seating tight in the socket and you have your alternator checked.

Hopefully it's something very simple. Keep us posted.

Stuart

i already did what your talking about the altenator checks out ok it will show a charge 1 time and then it stops charging. we also cleaned the wires on the plugs

field voltage at regulator 1. 2.6 2. 0 3. 11.9 4. 2.8 , at altenator field is at 1/2 amp stator at 1 amp

Make sure the belt is plenty tight. Those 6 cyl. engines dont give you much belt contact with the pulley. It has to be tight.

belt alredy replaced and is tight

Make sure the base of the regulator is grounded to the engine. I've cured several charging problems by simply running a ground wire from the regulator body to the alternator case. When an engine gets swapped, it's not uncommon for the ground wires to get left off, insulating the engine from the chassis by the rubber in the motor mounts.
Jerry

a new chassis to engine ground strap was put on

joek3167,

The voltage regulator is sometimes mounted on little shock insulated feet with rubber grommets. I think the idea was to make sure there was a good solid circuit from the voltage regulator frame to the alternator housing.

I'm not clear on your readings. If you use attach a terminal and short wire to DA 'F', start the truck and watching a voltmeter connected to BATT on the alternator, you should see it swing to 14.0 plus volts when you touch thee short wire to the BATT terminal and bring engine speed up.

Energizing the alternator field allows it to create power. A meter attached to voltage regulator terminal #4 should show 12 volts when the key is turned ON. Terminal #3 should show 12 volts too (or battery voltage) when probed with a voltmeter.

There are three components that make this work..the alternator, the regulator and the wiring connecting them. If you can prove the alternator functional and the integrity of the wires then the voltage regulator is the culprit. New electrical items can be bad off the shelf, but the odds are usually against it.

Without voltage to terminal "F" the alternator won't charge. I don't know if a blown GEN light will inhibit power from reaching terminal "F" but I do remember a previous post on that subject.

I'm assuming you know you have a 10DN alternator and not a 10SI. Unless the DA wires were messed with by someone previous to you, the plug is different and won't interchange.

Stuart

voltage regulator is mounted to core support and is on shock mounts

Here's a copy and paste of an e-mail that my buddy sent to one of his friends (a mechanic) for advice and I thought reading thru these steps would help you better understand what we've done to troubleshoot this problem and possibly offer some additional advice:

Recently, he was driving and noticed a sound of electrical arcing under the dash and at the same time smoke coming from the aftermarket radio which has worked fine for about 5 years (since it was installed). The radio is now inoperable but the fuses are good. By the way, he instantly disconnected the radio from its power supply during that event. He then continued to drive that same day in the rain and needed the wipers. Turned the wipers on and the wiper speed was erratic. When he turned the wipers off the motor would not park (but eventually did). Wipers work fine now. Right after that, he noticed the battery case was deformed (expanded). He also told me that prior to these events, the positive battery clamp would arc (very noticeably) when connecting it to the battery with the key off (he has a habit of disconnecting the battery when not in use).

I got involved at this point. Here are my diagnostic steps thus far:
-Visually inspected battery and verified the deformed case. Tested battery with my Midtronics analyzer and it tested bad (270 cca on a 770 cca battery).
-Replaced battery (and tested to make sure the new one is good).
-Measured voltage at the battery with the engine running (12.6 volts...not charging).
-Noticed alternator belt was very loose.
-Tightened belt. Still battery voltage (measured at the battery terminals).
-Measured voltage at positive stud on alternator...12.6 (engine running).
-Jumpered 12 volts to field terminal on alternator while checking voltage at charge stud...still battery voltage (with engine running at 1,500 rpm).
-Removed alternator and noticed it was locking up and lots of dirt falling out of the case.
-Installed reman 54 amp alternator (old alternator was 42 amp) and new mechanical voltage regulator (figured that would be a good idea).
-Still not charging.
-Full fielded once again. Instant 18 volts at battery (idle speed).
-Measured voltage at new regulator terminals with it plugged in and engine running (back probed plug):
F terminal 2.6 volts (field pulling .5 amp). I think that's normal.
2 terminal 0 volts
3 terminal 11.9 volts
4 terminal 2.8 volts
-I THINK #4 terminal is an input switched 12V (which energizes the regulator) so 2.8 volts is a problem.
-#4 wire runs thru bulk head connector at firewall and the connector was very corroded. Cleaned that connector with electrical parts cleaner, used small file to shine the male/female terminals, and blew out with compressed air. Still only 2.8 volts at #4 terminal.
-Jumpered 12 v to #4 terminal with engine running and measured 14.5 v at battery terminals (yeah that's the ticket).
-Ran a new 16ga. wire (with an inline 5 amp fuse) from a switched 12 volt terminal at the fuse box) to #4 terminal at the regulator.
-Started engine with dvom on battery terminals, measured only 13.5 volts and quickly thereafter noticed smoke coming out of regulator and the positive battery post was so hot that it burned my hand (yikes!).
-Shut off engine and disconnected battery instantly.

In hind sight, I think mechanical voltage regulators are matched to the amperage of the alternator (field winding current). I wonder if we need to find the correct regulator (assuming that's the problem), however I'm very confused as to why the positive battery post was hot to the touch (did not feel negative). I think it may be a better idea to install a modern single wire alternator (with an internal regulator obviously) and run a new "charge wire" to the positive battery cable clamp with a fuse link at the alternator charge stud. Since he already bought that 54 amp alternator, I wonder if we should install an external ELECTRONIC regulator to save money in lieu of messing around with trying to find the proper mechanical regulator.

Here some additional information that may help you provide me with some thoughts:
-Noticed ground strap was missing from firewall to block. Installed a new one.
-For a long time, the horn button would sometimes shock the operator when depressed (nice). For about the same amount of time, the brake lights would not work intermittently. These issues are currently NOT a problem. I wonder if the ground strap fixed that horn problem? Not sure whether that ground strap would fix the intermittent brake light issue (seriously doubt that). Brake light issue could show up again.

What are your thoughts on this scenario?

joek3167,

There certainly is lots going on and I'm not convinced it's all related. I'm not an automotive electrical man so this is all supposition. You put system voltage to #4 and got the alternator to full field so I would take that out of your equation to start with.

The battery cable deal doesn't make sense. A clean, tight cable/post can take several hundered amps for 30 seconds and shouldn't burn your hand. Your system max's out a 54 amps.

Does your alternator connect at the horn relay? Is it functional? Those bulkhead connectors are pretty famous for getting fuzzy and screwing things up. You never mentioned if this truck has a idiot light.

I'm out of suggestions on this one. I will say that if I weren't concerned about stock appearance, I wouldn't hesitate to install a modern internally regulated alternator...10SI units are dirt cheap and you could even go the one wire route and maybe make it that much easier.

Before I did that, I would check and clean all the battery and ground connections as well as any bulkhead connections.

Do you have a wiring diagram for this truck. The few I have found show a 'GEN' light which is in parallel with a resistor coming off the back of the keyswitch. I'm not sure if a worn out keyswitch could cause havoc but I would take a look at that too.

I think all the regulators were the same units (non-transistorized) but were adjusted for the different output alternators on different vehicles. A 42 amp unit would work fine with a 54 amp alternator, it would just limit the alternator output to 42 amps. I would steer clear of the transistorized regulator for sure.

Good luck with this and be sure to post the outcome.

Stuart

i do have a gauge in the dash that is the original one with the truck that is a gauge not the light type

With the engine off, key off, there shouldn't be any voltage at the stator terminal- the one next to the field terminal in the alternator plug. If you have voltage at that terminal under this condition, you have a shorted/leaking diode in the alternator. Some test rigs (and operators) don't measure output current adequately.

What current did you get from the alternator when it was tested? Is that output correct with the OEM specification? After-market suppliers tend to give a minimum output that sometimes is below the OEM specification.

Harvester

thanks for all the help i amupdating the system with a single wire altenator which is a altenator with built in regulator

Note that with a single wire alternator setup you have to give the engine a good rev before it starts charging, and it may not charge at idle with enough load on the alternator. The 3 wire system is superior.

I agree 100% there. Had a single wire on mine at first, wouldn't charge enough at idle to even keep the truck running. Went to the local Napa and swapped out the single wire parts to a 3 wire all silicone regulator (like they have in the late GMs), haven't had a problem since.

Personally I would stay with the 10DN external regulated unit you have, but that's me. It you switch to the 10SI or 12SI with internal reg, you should stay with the three-wire as suggested.
There is a problem with that however. The F & #2 regulator wires go to the F & R on the 10DN and nowhere else. The #4 reg wire will now go to the #1 on the new SI alternator. The #3 reg wire will now go to the #2 on the SI alternator.

What I am getting at is if the problem you have now is because of wiring, you will take the problem to the new internal regulated alt. Only the F,2 to F,A wires will be removed. Nothing else changes.

The one thing I'm not sure of is what charging system was in your C60 originally?
Chrysler brought out their alternator in 1960 and put it in nearly everything they sold. GM didn't introduce an alternator until '63 and many models didn't get one until '65.

In your post above you said reg terminal #2 had 0 volts. Is the other end of that wire on the alt "R" pin the same 0 volts? Should be about 6 V.

i put altenator on today and works like a champ good charge at idle no shorts in system

Shock mounts or well nuts are used to insulate from vibration. Any grounding requires a seperate wire. Regulators have tiny little filaments which could break if subjected to full vibration i.e. solid mounts. If your alt is good, hooked up properly, and rotating, then either your reg is no good or your batt. wont hold the charge. Full-feilding ( appyling 12 volts to feild term.)should make the max amps (rated out-put) If you do this have a high rated ammeter hooked up in line betwixt the alt. and the batt term, and minimize the time it is run that way ( just long enough to verify full amperage.