The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop IFS cross member for '47 to '55 3100's - GM Metric Based

Good question Todd, however I do not know if it does have an e-rack, or if it would fit. My guess is that it being front drive has the rack mounted tight against the firewall, so the rack would be backwards. Another choice would be an aftermarket e-rack that was available for the Pontiac Fiero. Configuration would be correct, however the car has not been made for 20 years.

However with your plan of mounting a power steering pump, would there be a need for an electric pump?

Scott

Todd, did some digging, Ford will be releasing electric power steering on most of their product within the next few years as a method of increasing fuel economy. BMW currently has electric power steering, however I do not know if that is electro-hydraulic or electro-mechanical.

GM's hybrid trucks have electro-hydraulic. The Mazda RX8 and Mazda3 and Mazda5's have an electro-hydraulic pump - I would assume more have it as well. The Volvo S40 has it as well. The most popular to date is the Toyota MR2 system

Hope this helps.

Scott

Thanks for the help. I plan to try to configure a standard setup. Just looking at possible alternatives.

All,

been busy with other projects while waiting the final welding of the prototype. I have some simple brackets for mounting the camaro rack, however because not everyone would want to go this route, some of you may want to go Mustang 2, others may want to fit an S-10 or GM Metric steering box (use the GM metric center link). Because of this, I can include brackets for mounting the Camaro rack, however I will not have them welded in place.

Any orders from Wisconsin will have to have sales tax, however shipping is less.

I have been slowly updating the webshots page with progress.

Scott

Scott,

Thanks for the update. I presume that you are going to use the Camaro rack on yours. That is what I think I will use.

BTW I will be visiting Carlisle, PA for the Truck show Friday. I might try to find some of the sheetmetal I will need to repair my cab.

Yes Todd, I will be using a Camaro Rack - mine came out of a F41 suspension option V8 car.

If you need a parts list, take a look at the July 2nd post. I will be typing one up along with my instructions soon.

Scott

Good News, Bad News.....No, it doesnt involve staying at a Holiday Inn Express or a little lizard.

I have updated some pics .

I ran out of welding wire.

the stock camaro rack only has 4.5" of travel (M2 has 5.25). a quick calculation indicates that the turning radius will be similar to the stock AD. A travel of 7" would be perfect (however does it exist in a stock rack) The rack input shaft u-joint is close to the frame rail. I will be searching for a solution so as not to clearance the frame (last resort)

There is a Toad somewhere in the garage pooping everywhere

I am out of beer

S-10 bushings and G-body bushings are different. The S-10 lower front bushing has a 14mm hole, the rear has a 12mm hole. The stock G-body has a 12mm hole for both, the aftermarket G-body has 1/2" for both. Depending on which donor you have, the holes may need to be clearanced with a drill.

something wrong with using rusty parts to hang on clean crossmember.

Scott

I do admire your resolve.

Jim

Thanks Jim. This on top of a second 'bolt project, two kids and a wife, and a 50 hr per week job... most folks thinks I am nuts.

Will be ordering tubular upper A-arms shortly. I have an email into Flaming River to see about a long travel rack.

Keep in mind this will also fit your 3/4T - hint - hint.

Scott

Todd,
Don't know all the particulars but a friend that works in a salvage yard tells me the Chev HHR's have electric assist power steering. You might ask a GM service tech about the facts on how it operates.
Herb

The HHR being front drive would have the rack behind the front axle centerline. While a good idea, wrong configuration.

I think that the beer shoudl be replaced first!

I admire your ability to identify the source of the various droppings in your shop. Normally my dog will find the Toad eventually.

When you are looking for tubular A-arms. What do you look for that will fit? Are you looking for S-10 replacements specificly? or do you search for GM Metric?

Todd,

I concur on the beer.

Since both upper A-arms are identical, I search for either / both.

Scott

Ok, Then what are you looking for that will fit for the lower arms?

You were looking at using dual piston calipers from an S-10. I noticed an advert for a Caliper sold by CPP that described it as a larger than stock single piston caliper. Do you have any idea about how the stopping quality might compare? It says it uses the same D154 standard brake pads (as the stock single piston I presume). So the swept pad area is no larger, just a bigger piston for more force. Do you know if the dual piston design uses the same pads? I know that I probably ask too many quesitons. Mostly just thinking out loud and trying to learn what I can.

Todd

The DP calipers uses longer pads, so more force and more pad area.

Scott

Hi, I just found a lead on a couple of parts cars. One is a '76 Trans Am, the other an '86 Camaro. Which is the better front end switch (using your crossmember), or on it's own ?
Which has the better rear end for converting that end ?

I haven't negotiated on these yet. My project is a '52 GMC 1/2 ton panel.

Thanks

An S-10 or G-body (78-87 Malibu, Regal, Cutlas, etc.) would be best as all the parts from the front can be used. otherwise the brake calipers and lowers can be used from the camaro, however that would be it. you will still need spindles, uppers, etc.

Scott

Thanks Scott. I think I know where a rusty 2 door Cutlass is sitting.

If the front end parts are junk, keep looking. G-body parts and S-10 parts are plentiful. if the car is about $300 or less, it will be worth the parts. I have one set of stock S-10 spindles if you need.

Scott

Scott do you have any new photos of the installation? We've emailed back and forth a couple of times. I haven't actively looked for a doner car for the front suspension pieces but the 78/87 G bodies are plentiful in this area and dead ones show up on a regular basis.

Guys, Scott has been pretty specific in exactly what suspension and steering pieces will fit. The G body suspension should be readily available in just about any regular wrecking yard or you should be able to pick up a doner car for probably cheaper than you can buy the individual pieces. Drag it home, pull the parts you want and call the junkyard to come and haul it off. The Camaro rack shouldn't be that hard to come by as long as you hit yards that deal with late model vehicles.
Parts for other series of vehicles won't fit as each series is pretty well different from the previous series.
The 64/72 Chevelles and similar GM cars are together as are the 73/87 cars of the same body style. Then we go to the 78/87 "Metric" series.

Any updates?

Awaiting a few missing parts to send the first units out. My move had pre-occupied some of my time.

Scroll up for history / links to pics, etc.

Scott

Ok I need to accumulate some overtime to replace the cash out of the truck kitty that I had to spend on getting my wife a new daily driver after she blew the last one up. 15 miles with the hot light isn't too good for 2.2 Mazdas but I might have a nice pair of bucket seats for a project if someone doesn't buy the dead car.

I and most likely others would like to see one welded into a frame with the suspension pieces on it before sending off the cash so keep us posted.

Did you not see the latest pics ?

Scott

I see two new pics since I last looked. It is great that there does not have to be any cutting of the inner fender to make it all fit. Thanks Scott.

Update, sent out the first few Cross members - slightly delayed by a move, shipping company and a vendor that didnt make all the parts.

If the UPS neanderthals do not drive over them, we should be getting feedback for the rest of the folks waiting.

Todd, have you figured out the power steering pump issue yet?

Scott

How is the developement going I have a 48 chevy half ton and like the sound of your crossmember could you email me any information you have about it. i know of a celbrity tv host that will be offering a bolt in unit out of g body cars his work is wonderful but pricey. He will not offer a crossmember only options. I like the idea of the bolt in unit that will allow me to source ny own parts and work with in the means of ny budget. my email address is bjhpool@aol.com any info will be great hope to hear from you soon.

Scott,

I have not yet figured out the power steering issue yet. For those just joining us, we are talking about my 235 Chevy six.

I have seen brackets that will mount the alternator and air compressor both on the driver side. I think I have seen 2 sources.

There is a member here (Fla54Chevy3100) that has a webshots gallery. He made a bracket to mount the alternator on the passenger side. He then mounted the A/C compressor on the drivers side. Fla54Chevy3100 Alternator bracket

I have a Buffalo Enterprises damper with 2 grooves cut in it. I will not know if a third pulley will fit on the front until I get the engine in the truck. I could run a double pully off the a/c compressor and then run a single belt to the power steering pump.

Just getting 3 accessories hung will be a challenge. I deally I would like to hang the a/c compressor on the passenger side and the power steering pump on the driver's side. I don't know about the alternator, but I think it would more easily hang on the top on the driver's side.

Todd

Todd,

I have access to a lathe (and more importantly, a machinist that works for beer). I can make you an adder pulley for the front if needed. Dont know what the current pulley looks like, however that is an option if needed. I would either need a good sketch, or the actual pulley.

I also know the Chief Engineer of Kenway and can get a pulley made and new A/C brackets, compressor, etc.

Scott

I wrote a note to Scott. Here it is and his response.

Scott,

Sorry to show my ignorance here. In some pictures of the crossmember, you have a metal tube where the bushing for the lower a-arm will be. What is that?

You describe the lower a-arm being bolted in. Assuming I buy the Global West arms and they use ½ inch bolts, do I just buy 4 bolts long enough to fit?

I would presume it best to buy grade 8 bolts. I have thought about bolts from Totally stainless. They sell grade 8 I believe. Is it a bad idea to use stainless?

Would you use nuts and lock washers or nylock nuts?

Is it possible to over tighten the bolts and pinch the bearing on the lower a-arm? Your cross member is pretty strong looking or do the bushings come with a metal sleeve in them that will bear the force of the tightened bolt?

Thanks for any help.

Todd

The metal tube was a spacer used to weld up the first prototype as we (myself and fab shop) were working on ways to weld the cross member both in the jig as well as the areas after we pulled it out of the jig.

I would check with Global West on the diameter and length. They may even supply the bolts

I have never found a grade 8 stainless. I would stay away from stainless. If you are worried about corrosion, I can point you in a few directions for “ultra coated” That is what the military uses. They are available thru Fastenal and McMaster Carr. However GM uses standard Black Oxide fasteners which last many many years and miles for a daily driven vehicle. They should last another 60 years on a ‘bolt. I would recommend Flanged head bolts to match the Prevailing Torque Nuts. am including a few images from McMaster for reference Again, these are what GM used.

Cap Screw

Prevailing torque lock nuts are required on suspension parts – available at any hardware supply. That is what is stock from GM. Nylocks may come loose.

No, the lower bushing has an inner sleeve that you tighten down on. The sleeve then remains fixed to the cross member and the bushing actually rotates on the inner sleeve. This is true with stock rubber, urethane, delrin, etc.

BTW, I did order A-arms from Global West. In talking to them, they use 12mm bolts, so hopefully they will bolt right in.

Thanks Todd,

12mm will bolt right in without having to modify like you do for later S-10 A-arms with the 14mm bolt.

Did you ever figure out your 3 accessories on the 235 yet?

Scott

No, My engine is still in Nebraska and I might not be able to find the time to haul it home to Pennsylvania until the spring. I will probably be putting off much further research on that until I have it in my garage.

I think that there will be some creative bracket fabrication in my future.

Todd

All stovebolters, reduced price to $475 plus shipping for Cross Members ordered before years end. Have a few left in stock, current lead time is 3 weeks once stock is depleted.

Makes a great Christmas Gift.

Scott

p.s. email: danforths@lsol.net PH 941.708.3851 - evenings after 6 pm Eastern. International shipping available via UPS

BTTT

Hey folks, I have inventory and a large deficit in the pocket book. Somehow the 40 plus people interested turned out to be only a few.

Will be willing to sell the design and the rights for the amount I have invested....and if you have to ask and amount.....

Hi Scott, I was one of those interested. On my part, sorry about that.

My own current financial circumstances are now such that I no longer own my Stovebolt.

Well, Here is one of the crossmembers that Scott built. I have begun collecting the parts to complete the setup. But I wanted to see what I had so far.

Front Suspension Parts

Fron Suspension Parts 2

The crossmember is just sitting on top of my frame for now. The spindles and discs came off of a 2005 Blazer. I believe they are 11 inch discs and have dual piston calipers. The A-arms are from Global West. I had to send the lower arms back and am waiting for replacements. I will need to find springs and stering components. Right now, my plan is to go to NAPA for springs and to buy a steering rack from Flaming River.

In the meantime, I need to teach myself how to use the MIG welder in my garage.

I also put the cart before the horse and started on the truck before I got the garage finished so I keep moving stuff around to hang drywall. Then there is the need for a compressor and air lines etc... etc... etc...

Garage

I have a ways to go.

Great Pictures Todd

Scott

any pics , i also have cross members for sale , i make them too....................??$$$$

Mikster,

You can look at my above post. It has pictures of the crossmember that Scott built.

Scott,

Here are a couple more. I got the new lower arms from Global West today.

Lowers 1
Lowers 2

The front bushing on both arms is a snug fit. The rear is a little loose, not by any great margin. I would just guess that there is an extra 1/32 of an inch in there.

Now I need to find 12mm bolts. I know that you had sent me som information. I asked Global West and they do sell them, but they wanted something like $42 for the 4 bolts. I thought I might find them elsewhere. Do you know of anyplace that I can buy automotive grade bolts on-line. Otherwise, I was going to try to ask at my local NAPA.

Todd

Todd, if needed, I can get you some shims, the front bushing used to be a real snug fit with the prototype, I opened that up by 0.010. the bolts will also pull the material in a bit.

McMaster Carr has bolts, however the local Fastenal will have them as well. Your Napa should have them as well. Grade 10.9 on the metric. Flanged head if you can get them.

Also, the images are not working this morning

Scott