The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts 4X4 front axle

does anybody know if a 4X4 front axle out of a 70's Chevy 1 ton dually will fit under my '47 6400?or is their another choice that will fit better.

Herein lies the problem with these axles. This is exactly what I want to do with my truck and width is the problem. A Chevy Dana 60 front axle is approximately 69" wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface (WMS-WMS) for the single rear wheel(SRW) axles. Note, the dual rear wheel (DRW) axles are WAY too wide for the 47-54 big bolts. You could use a DRW axle but you'd need to get the SRW hubs to put on it.

The outer extremities of the 47-54 big bolt fenders are about 74 7/8". If you want to use the stock dually type wheels, you're going to have to make an adapter to go from the 8 lug pattern to a 10 lug pattern, which will probably add about 4-6 inches to the WMS-WMS length, so then you're looking at about 73-75 inches WMS-WMS. Then it all depends on how deep of an offset your rims have, and how wide your tires are when inflated.

In my case, I plan to put the newer 19.5" diameter 27775 Accuride wheels on my ride, which have a 5" wheel offset, and tires that are about 9 inches wide inflated. With a Chevy Dana 60, this would put the outer extremity of my front tires at 74 3/4" (with 3 inch thick adapters).. This would put my tires slightly under the fender,, bad.

Two things I've been looking at to alleviate this. First, a place like www.custom-differentials.com can cut the axle tube down and shorten the axle shafts and rebroach the splines on them for you,,, obviously this is kind of expensive.

The other option is to find one of the SRW Dodge Dana 60's that has a 67" WMS-WMS. They are very similar to the Chevy Dana 60's. This would put your axle with 3" 10 lug adapters at about 73" WMS-WMS and might provide enough room to keep the tires under the fenders providing the offset is great enough. This is the option I'm looking into.

My calculations with a Dodge Dana 60 SRW axle and the 27775 Accuride wheels would come out to 72 3/4" to the outside of the tires. This would be tight, but might work. Additionally, if I can make wheel adapters that are smaller than 3 inches thick, say 2.5 inches, then I can get the outer tire width down to below 72". I think this would work,,, at least that's my plan for the future.

Hope that helps.
Jon

This may sound terribly elementary so I hope I'm not insulting you in any way but you do realize that the front and rear differentials must both have the same gear ratios, don't you? I don't think they would have. And if not a 4x4 setup then why have a driving front axle?

jgetti,
Another thing to simplify your plans, ditch the wheel adapters and run 8 lug dual wheel 19.5" wheels.
I know they are out there, because I had a set for a while.

Grigg

53moneypit, it's good that you mention that as 47chevy6400 will have to deal with that problem. In my case, I'm already putting a Dana 70HD in the back of my truck so matching gears won't be a problem for me. I can't speak for 47chevy6400, but in my case, I'm switching to a 4x4 setup because there are places on our farm where our 55 6400 2nd series gets hung up (hilly muddy crossings into fields that cross creeks, etc.) and 4x4 will come in very handy. And you just never know when the old 48' D4 Caterpillar is going to need a tow

Grigg,
I had considered using 8 lug wheels in the front, but the stock spacing for the DRW Dana 60 still puts the wheels I was looking at out too far, and the SRW Dana 60 would put them in much further, and the spindle tube would be sticking way out since dually wheels are offset inward so much. If I made 2-3" adapters, I could keep common wheels all the way around, get the spacing more ideal to what I want, and the spindle tube would only stick out past the wheel about 3 inches.

Might be a better way to go for others though.

I am not sure I completely understand your reasoning and measuring/figuring.
But I trust you have your head wrapped around it better than I do.

Two things to consider:
1. Make sure the brakes and steering linkage fit in the wheels you want with the back spacing and adapter combo you have planned.
2. The ideal place for the center of the tire is directly below the centerline of the king pin, or in your case, below a line drawn through the center of the ball joints/king pins. this allows for very little tire scrub when turning, and easy turning. If it is very far off it may handle funny on the road, not sure?

I guess what I am trying to say is I don't see how you can use a dual wheel or a single wheel on the opposite kind of front hub, because of brake clearance and turning geometry, even if you do use a small spacer??

Grigg

Just get a truck like mine. Then you're done,
Scott

53moneypit i am also planning to put a dana 70HD in the rear.
i do need the 4X4 in the winter to get up the hill to my house but also because everything on the stock front axle is worn out. i was measuring my '79 2WD GMC 1 ton front track width and it is pretty close to my '47. also the dana 70HD rear axle i have is an 8 lug so i would just use 8 in the front too.
48 big trucks i do have one like yours http://rides.webshots.com/album/563616467iqvoxl

Nice truck, here's my other one.
Scott

Hey Scott I would like to see more of the grader attachments on your trucks there. Have you ever used one of them if so how well do they work? I imagine it could be a little tough when you can't see the mold board while grading but I sure like the idea I do a lot of gravel road maintenance if I could run one of them things it sure would make things easier not to have to rent a grader just to push rock down a short road.

Grant those look more like plow mounts but i guess a grader is the same thing, mine came with a 9 foot plow and it works good but i heard that if you use them to push gravel or dirt that is dry it wears out the blade but i guess you could find some harder metal to bolt on. also with the plow wider than the truck it's not too hard to see.

Snowplow cutting edges are very hard steel and are reversible as well. They can also be surfaced hardened by any good welder.

Grant..the problem with trying to push gravel or dirt with a plow is that they don't have down pressure but must be allowed to float with the road surface. Underbody scraper blades do usually have down pressure and are used to break up ice on the road. MotorGraders of course are also D/A or they wouldn't be worth a toot.

Here's a picture of the 53 with the plow on. I have the bed off of it right now so I'll get some pictures of the grader soon. I haven't had much of a chance to play with the grader yet but it will move some rock. If you're not careful, it will remove your whole driveway. You can see the grader from the drivers seat pretty well with those long tall mirrors mounted on the front fenders. The only part I need to get used to is, all of the hydraulics are PTO driven instead of electric. So you need the clutch out everytime you want to adjust something. That means you have to pretty much do it on the fly, LOL.
Scott

Sorry 47Chevy6400 I didn't mean to take your thread off topic but I am really interested in that grader under Scott’s truck.

And here is a couple of shots I took tonight. It does have enough down force to actually lift the truck. I have scale tickets that says it weighs around 13,000 pounds too.

Shot from the front
They're high quality pictures so you can zoom in close if you like,
Scott

One didn't show up for some reason so here's a shot from the rear too,
Scott

(I know it's dirty, just haven't had time to power wash it yet)

Thanks Scott I was pretty sure when I seen it that it was a grader and not a snow plow. I sure would be happy if you would share any info that you may have on these I think I want one.
Have you found any data plates maybe a manufacturer’s name?
It would be nice if a guy supplied hydraulic power to it from a source that wasn't dependent on the vehicles clutch being engaged. Another thing that would be nice is if you could build attachment points that would allow easy removal and reinstall like a tractor implement so you didn‘t have to haul it around when not using it.
BTW Scott I think it is time to start a thread just for you truck mounted graders I don’t care if they are on F#rds they are cool I feel like a heal high jacking 47‘s thread here.

Grigg,
I agree with your first point, but I'm pretty confident that the increased diameter of the 19.5 inch rim compared to a 16 inch rim will accommodate all brake, steering components with the spacer idea I had in mind.

I'm not sure I understand your second point to consider. If you check out the Dana 60 pictures at http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/60_front/index.html
all of these examples show the king pin to be completely on the inside of the tire... Are we talking about two different things?

OK, on the link you provided, take a look at the eighth picture down, actually it's a drawing titled "This picture applies to any kingpin Dana60 front axle".

You will notice that a center line drawn through the center of the king pins is on an angle from vertical. By the time this line extends down to the ground you will see how it is close to the center of the contact patch of the tire.

If the center of your tire is very far away from where this centerline hits on the ground then you scrub the tires when turning, and it could act funny when driving.

So the wheel that was used with each particular hub, spindle, and knuckle combination when new takes this into consideration. And using wheels with drastically different back spacing, or a wheel and spacer combo that results in different back spacing, is less than ideal.

Does this make sense?

Grigg

Yep, gotcha now.

do you know what the spring center to spring center and the WMS to WMS is for an AD 6400 like mine i'm going too call Boyce equipment to get a quote for a dana 60 front

I have a WWII military ambulance frame. It looks almost exactly like my 51 GMC as far as the parts go. It is a 4 x 4 and has a transfer case with it. Send me your E mail address and I'll send you some photos. It had a 48 carryall on it, so an AD series should fit. I have photos of the carryall on it, and could measure the frame for you. dlhenk 785-738-8714

Off the top of my head I think 26"...

I can go take some better measurements tomorrow to be sure, and check WMS to WMS too.

Grigg

Front axle for AD 1.5 or 2 ton should have the following measurements:

Center to center of spring center pin holes; 26 and 13/16 inches.

Wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface; about 69.5" (within a 1/2").

Grigg