The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Retarding timing?

I discovered that my timing is too far advanced. How do you retard it? When I accelerate(at a standstill) I can here the pinging(or glass bottles rattling as someone else has said) so I need to know how to retard it to stop the pinging(and potential damage) in the engine.

Loosen the clamp bolt on the distributor and turn it a little in a clockwise direction. Bolt it back down and give it a try.

Where is the bolt? It's dark and hard to see, but I think I know what you are talking about. I've seen it in the manual.

Is it the screw between the engine and the bottom of the distributor? This screw looks like it is going through a clamp but I can't tell.

Is it the bolt with an arrow on it on this page or is it the screw just barely seen and partially covered in the picture by the distributor housing? I can't tell, I feel so novice!

I figured it out, I have to let it soak in pb blaster.

That photo shows the octane adjuster. The bolt for changing the timing is hidden by the distributor. The head faces the front of the motor.

If you look closely you can see the other end of the bolt. I found the clamp and I am soaking it in pb blaster, it is stuck.

Hey, can I use my propane torch to loosen the bolt or will I melt something?

Does this bolt turn left or right to loosen it? I have it moving, but I don't know if I'm turning it right, there are certain ones that turn right to loosen.

Righty tighty, Lefty loosey. You won't find any left hand bolts on your truck.

usually it is lefty loosey, righty tighty.

left will loosen it, although i am not 100% sure on your truck. everything i have worked on was left to loosen, right to tighten.

except for lug nuts on my friends 1970 dodge dart.

leonard

Got, now I'm going to start it and see what it does.

Yep Rat Rod, it was lefty loosey, righty tighty. Only reason I didn't know was because I turned it to the right and it moved.

Uh oh, it won't start. I don't know if the battery is getting low or if I retarded the timing too much. Just to make sure, how much should I turn the distributor?

Think about the top of the distributor as a clock face. Turn it to the right 2 or 3 minutes.
Jerry

Ok.

yea, dont turn it too much. then it will be retarded too much.

have someone turn the key over while you turn the distributor until it will start. then go from there.
be careful to not get shocked holding the cap. i hate getting shocked, and use an old t-shirt when playing with the distributor while it is running.

leonard

I set it back to where it was initially. I'm not going to mess with it when it's too dark to see. Tomorrow I'll start it and then retard it.

First try it with the octane selector. It will give you about 4 degrees. Someone may have turned it way over to advance, which could be causeing the problem.

Well, I would do that but I can't see the selector! I'd have to take off the fender to see it/reach it. I have to charge the battery now.

Hey got it started and running, messed with the timing for about 10 minutes and finally got the pinging to stop, but now I'm having problems with it having little "backfires" out of the carb. It's not an actually backfire, but sounds like there are little ones in the carb. Could this be from the points being incorrectly set(I tried to get them as close to specs as possible)? Or something with the carb? If I retard the distributor any more it gets worse, and if I advance it it starts to ping.

What speed are you driving, and under what conditions (uphill, downhill, heavy load, etc.)? What you're describing as "ping" doesn't happen unless the engine is under road driving load. Tune the engine to normal specifications, and stop tinkering with it until it's possible to do a proper, on-the-road evaluation of the problem.
Jerry

How is a 13 year old suppose to learn if he can't 'tinker'!

Stuart

Jerry, this "ping" I discovered while revving the engine when trying to find out if my generator was charging right. It sounds like glass bottles rattling together. I was not moving the truck at all when I discovered it. And while doing a search, I found multiple times posts that recommended retarding the timing because today's gas is better than 50 years ago. But now, this "ping" is not the problem, it's the small backfire sounds coming from the carb, as explained above.

Maybe this helps...

You cannot get 'ping' by just revving while parked and not in gear.
You are probably hearing something else and should advance the distributor back to where it was, if you can.
This will cure your 'backfire' you just created by retarding too much.

Maybe what you think of 'ping' is just an old fan belt that needs some silicone spray or Armorall or simply needs replacing with a new one, if the old one is dried up and cracked.
Maybe the generator needs new bushings or rebuilding or replacing if it hasn't been lubed for a long time.

About the gas - you got it the other way around.
Modern gas is not better, but has more octane, which means you should ADVANCE the timing a few degrees to compensate.

But don't worry about your timing until you get your truck to drive on the open road and more regularly, when fuel economy and preserving the engine condition becomes more important.
If you are just wheeling around the yard, you will be fine with timing that is close but doesn't have to be ideal.
The brakes and steering would be more important to get right at this stage.

Another thing, if you haven't done this yet is to clean and rebuild the carburetor with a repair kit from your local parts store, or just buy one online.
Eventually you will also need a good rebuilt or new distributor.
Old and worn ones can give you lots of troubles, giving all kinds of false alarms.
Same with spark plugs and wires - Get a new set and properly gapped.


Get your basic cheap tools ... like a timing light, rpm gauge, vacuum gauge, spark plug gap gauge, feeler gauge and more than anything: a Shop Manual.
You will learn so much in a short time, if you follow the 'engine tune up' section of your manual, using these basic tools.

Well, now, I'm embarrassed. I bet the rattling I was hearing was the backfire in the carb in the first place. I will go out and advance it a little from where it is now.

Ok, it is back where it was before I messed with it. (I don't know if it makes a difference or not but by revving it up I meant holding it at a certain point, not just hitting it and letting go) There is that sound in the carb. I have looked in the shop manual and the closest sound to describe it is "spitting" or "popping", probably the latter. Now that I have thought this over for awhile, both of those sounds sound like they are coming from the carb/exhaust area. They happen together. At one point in opening the throttle it sounds like a toy machine gun going off.

jdl,
could it be an exhaust leak at your manifold gaskets ?
at certain rpms if there is a manifold gasket leak it will make little popping type sounds. i changed my hedder gaskets and got rid of that annoying sound.

just a thought.

leonard

Could be, there may be a big one, there is a lot of moving air in the engine compartment, but the exhaust has a lot of holes so I can't tell. I think you may be on to something. It runs and accelerates fine, but at that certain point it makes popping sounds, and that seems very similar to what you just said. I'll get some gaskets and put them on, then see if that makes a difference. That could also be why my windshield wipers are extremely slow, where as when I first started my truck they worked fine.

jdl, im not familiar with vacuum asisted wipers, but if you are having that problem i would suspect a vacuum leak, either with the carb gasket or the intake manifold gaskets. exhaust gaskets would make the popping noise, but they would not affect your vacuum.

i do know that my hedder gaskets, that go between the hedder and the heads, they were burnt and there was a few leaks, and i would only get the small popping sounds at a cetain rpm, like around 1000-1500 rpm. anytyhing over that you really couldnt tell.

but if you do have a vacuum leak, say in the carb or intake manifold gasket, it will affect the idle quality.

i think, if while the truck is running, you can spray some carb cleaner around the bottom of the carb gasket, and around the intake manifold gasket, and it it starts to run BETTER, then you definetly have a vacuum leak in that area where you sprayed.

hope this helps.

leonard

I just looked at the engine again and I'm fairly certain that the extreme air movement(almost like a fan blowing in your face) is from bad gaskets. The exhaust pipe would not have an effect up that far, most of the exhaust air goes under the truck where the pipe is rusted in half. At any rate, I need some new gaskets.

If it does turn out to be a bad gasket(s) should I get an intake/exhaust manifold gasket set? Any other gaskets? Also, I have a carb kit but I have not a clue how to put it on and am not sure if I can even do it myself.

not sure if intake and exhaust gaskets come in a set, probably only a complete set of gaskets for the entire engine, but you can buy them separatly with no problems.

do the carb cleaner spray trick and if it doesnt affectt eh idle, than i would hold off on the intake/carb gaskets.
but do the exhaust gaskets. they are easy enough. sometimes.

keep us updated.

leonard

A manifold gasket set is readily available from local stores and reproduction parts vendors.

NAPA ($8.99)

AutoZone Part # MS9193B ($8.99 Felpro)

Advance Auto # MS9193B (FEL-PRO $9.98)

Classic Parts of America ($8.95)

All the above sets contain:
- intake-manifold to exhaust-manifold gasket
- intake/exhaust manifolds to head gaskets
- exhaust-pipe to exhaust manifold gasket(s)

The Classic Parts set includes two styles of exhaust pipe gaskets (to fit all years, 54-62).

You might want to buy two sets. The modern manifolds-to-head gaskets are thinner than the original gaskets and less forgiving to mismatched surfaces. You would then need to have the mating surfaces on the manifolds planed or hope that a double thichness of gaskets will work.

Also, it is not uncommon that the intake-manifold-to-head alignment rings have been mangled, it might be a good idea to get a set of alignment rings.

Ratrodking, I went onto Napa and they have a combo set. Tclederman, thanks. If the only gasket(s) that are blown have to do with the exhaust it won't affect the engine, it'll just make those sounds right? And if there are other bad gaskets, like one for the manifold, it won't hurt to not replace them right away?

Some good news! The popping sound IS made by the bad gasket between the exhaust pipe and manifold(? I really have to find out what all of those are called) and I know why my wipers aren't working very good. When I put my hand up to the port(if that's what it is called) that the vacuum wiper hose is connected to, I feel some air, just like I do at the exhaust gasket. But I can't track where it is coming from. I also feel air in the space between the carb and fan, don't know if it is from the fan or not.

When I put my hand up to the port(if that's what it is called) that the vacuum wiper hose is connected to, I feel some air, just like I do at the exhaust gasket.

If you think the wiper hose connection (or hose) is bad, you would feel suction (from the vacuum).

No, it's not sucking in, it is going out, which makes me believe that it is coming from between the carb/spacer or spacer/manifold.

Would it make a difference if I had the wipers on and it sucked in? I'll go out and see.