The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Clutch Rattle? '57 235 bolted up to '52 216 Bellhousing

My '41 has a '57 235 installed, bolted to a '52 216 bellhousing. I installed a replacement (new) 9" clutch during the swap. I know that there has been some discussions on this topic before but here's the deal....

When the clutch pedal is fully depressed the clutch makes a rattling noise that sounds like a bad throw-out bearing. Visuals with the truck on a lift seem to indicate that it is more than likely due to the clutch fork rattling on the throw-out bearing. The clutch linkage is adjusted as tight as it will go but there is still about an inch or 2 of free play in the pedal. New clutch disc, plate, bearing, fork and ball.

Engine pulled today -- all clutch components look good. My only concern, and it could be what is causing the problem, is that the clutch linkage adjustment is tightened as much as allowable. I believe that although the clutch engages enough to allow shifting the pressure plate is not gaining enough pressure to prevent chattering between the disc and plate.

Any help, suggestions, or comments welcome.

This topic from 2000 sounds just like my problem

Don

Well, here I am after quite a long absence, mostly due to being bummed out about how long and difficult my engine rebuild (under warranty)took and then due miscellaneous other stuff diverting my attention. I needed to take a break from the truck project for awhile.

Anyway, the engine is back in running fine but the above mentioned clutch clinkity, clinkity, clinkity, noise is still there. I need some expert opinion and help from you guys, as I'm pulling the engine again tomorrow. The following pretty much sums up what was done previously and what the symptoms are:

• Block bored true for new slightly oversized OD pilot bushing
• New Pressure Plate, TO Bearing, Fork, Ball, Clutch Disc installed.
• As mentioned in previous post all adjustment was taken up on clutch linkage and clinkity noise was only heard when the clutch pedal was fully depressed.

Prior to engine reinstall the other day the following was done:

• Flywheel surface machined as upon inspection LAST January a small rub spot "heat checking" about size of a dime was noted on the friction surface.
• Another new Throw-out bearing installed
• Upon restart and testing today it was noted that the noise is only present at about 1/2 clutch pedal depression or just about when pressure plate release levers are more or less flat and about the time disc release starts. Noise goes away upon full depression.
• Inspection with engine running and working clutch I could not feel any vibration being transmitted to throw-out bearing and clutch fork was steady. TO bearing feels smooth and rotates without any discernible shock vibration. I had engine running and was under cab with my fingers on bearing during clutch operation.
• Clutch linkage nut thickness was ground down to about half original to provide a tad more adjustment. No change in noise or point at which is occurs.
• Transmission shifts fine with no signs of grinding, clutch slippage, chattering, etc.

This noise sounds pretty much like a pressure plate held in your hands would would sound when shaken. A rattle is heard from the alignment castings (the square nubs on the pressure plate) banging on the square holes of the pressure plate housing.

The only good thing about this whole deal is that now the noise is transient, only occurring during shifting and is not present when I'm stopped with the pedal depressed. It was so loud that it attracted attention and not the kind that I would like.

Any ideas, help, suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Don

"This noise sounds pretty much like a pressure plate held in your hands would sound when shaken. A rattle is heard from the alignment castings (the square nubs on the pressure plate) banging on the square holes of the pressure plate housing."

I think you nailed your problem.
It sounds like you have a rebuilt not new pressure plate. It is hard to get a good rebuilt one. The square ears wear over time and will rattle. I needed to have my parts store order me three, before I got a good one, on one of my jobs. Shake it before you buy it.

Thanks Dave and I see you were up late also. The "ears" don't appear worn or anything but there is definitely a large tolerance between the ears and the slots. The only hole I find in this theory is that due to centrifugal force it would seem that the pressure plate guides (the slots and ears) would remain in firm contact and would not rattle. Since you've experienced the problem and apparently settled it by obtaining a well manufactured plate I guess this could be the source of the noise though. Anyone else care to chime in?

Don

Make shure the TO brg. matches the pressure plate. There are 2 different kinds of pressure plates used by GM. The older style the fingers where flat, parallel to the plate surface. It used a long TO brg with a coller between the brg. & groove. The latter style has the fingers protruding outward to the outer edge of the cover. Commonly called a beehive clutch. It uses a short TO brg. . The brg. is right in front of the groove. If these don,t match it will cause noises & hard to adjust linkage. I always use new clutch matched sets. The remans are very inconsistent.

If you have the short throwout bearing with the flat diaphragm clutch you will have a whole bunch of space between the brg. and clutch. Make sure you have the right bearing and the excessive clearance will be gone. It sounds like you need the long brg.

Thanks guys for the advice. I looked around and the FLAPS had the complete assembly as mentioned by several of you. I spoke with Helen (the absolute greatest sales rep) at Tim Tygarts Obsolete Chevy and she said that they had a NOS pressure plate in stock. The price seemed about right so I agreed to purchase it if they would do the shake test and make sure it didn't rattle in their hand. It didn't and I said okay. The next morning Helen called and said that they didn't get it on the UPS truck until yesterday as they had cleaned it up prior to shipping. I hope it works and will let you all know. If it doesn't solve the problem it means I'll be ordering the complete set and have to move to engine forward again. Bummer.

Have a nice 4th and thanks to you all.

Don

Well things have finally quieted down a bit. The newly installed pressure plate seems to have resolved the clinkity clinkity problem. The original pressure plate obtained from another high profile vendor will hopefully be returned for a refund, although it's been some time since I bought it. There were very few hours put on it as it wasn't right from the get go. The whole affair has ended up costing me a bundle in cash and time in that the engine had to be pulled twice.

The other issue with the lack of adjustment in the free-play still exists. My vendor in Ga. sent me a NOS TO bearing and said that no one there had ever heard of a longer one and that the NOS bearing was correct for the plate. After the engine was reinstalled a full bottomed out adjustment was necessary to fully disengage the clutch upon pedal depression. There is no more adjustment left.

My question now, although it will be some time before I pull the engine again, is where can I get the longer TO bearing some of you mentioned in prior replies? Part #'s, vendors, links, would be appreciated. It may be that I can fabricate or modify the clutch linkage to provide more adjustment, as it becomes necessary. Right now it's as quiet as can be and allows smooth shifting.

Thanks for all of the advice and make sure to "shake your plate" before it's too late. Don't install any pressure plate assembly that makes noise when shaken by hand prior to installation. This has been another costly learning adventure, but then again one of the very things that makes this site so great--all of the collective experience out there being shared.

Don

Anyone?

Don,

There are two sizes of throwout bearings (I have dealt with the same problem and have held the two sizes in my hand). But, it seems to me if you want more pedal play, you would want the shorter throwout bearing (or it could be that I am confused).

Jim Cater lists a throwout bearing that is 1 7/8" long.

Maybe the pre-54 bearing is different from the 54 and later bearing (or maybe the change took place later in the later 50s, after the change to 12v). The change would have to be related to a change in the clutch assembly and/or the clutch housing.

Go to Rockauto.com and lookup 1960 Suburban with 235 engine. They give dimensions and show at least three different lengths of bearings with the same shaft diameter. Also, another listing shows two different Timken bearings: 614037 and 614018. Maybe somwone has a Timken book that gives dimensions.

Give Patrick's or Langdon's Stovebolt a call and ask if they would be willing to advise you. Or, maybe call Jim Carter or Bowtie Bits .

Or, maybe someone with a better memory than I have will post an answer here.

Tim

Hello Tim,

Thanks for the info. As it's around 0200 here right now I'm not going to go out to the garage the measure the old bearing.

The situation is I require less pedal free play as all adjustment in the linkage has been taken up. Even though I have good engagement my concern is that over time as the clutch wears I'll have nothing left. At that time I will be faced with replacing the TO bearing.

Thanks as always for your input.

Don