The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts having wheel adapters made,, need a set?

Hi all,

I recently made an eBay purchase for 24 inches of tube stock to be turned down for some wheel adapters. I have a 1950 1-1/2 ton truck and am putting the 3500hd 19.5 rims on. My axle hubs are 4.75 inches and the hub diameter of the rims are 5.25 inches. The adapters are made to fill the gap.

These adapters are mentioned in Grigg's wheel upgrade article. Anyway, I'm obviously going to have some extra material. I was curious if anyone else needs a set while we have everything set up on the lathe.

I'll be having these turned soon, so let me know if you're interested.

Jon

Are they steel or aluminum?
Any estimate on price?

Thanks,
Grigg

i would be interested in a set let me know cause im getting ready to buy my rims and tires

let me know

HEY THERE, I TOO WOULD BE INTERESTED, PLEASE LET ME KNOW THE LOGISTICS AND COST THX TED 47 DEUCE-O

I'm also interested please provide details

Thxs
Bob

I was thinking $50 a set just to make sure I can pay for the machining costs and material. My brother works a machine shop who will let him do the work, but I'll have to firm up with him if they would require any additional payment for tooling. I have 4140 chrome moly tube stock to have them cut from.

Joe, I actually live in Ste. Genevieve about an hour south of St. Louis. I'm having the wheels sandblasted right now, so I would estimate that I'd be putting the wheels on in a few weeks. If you're still interested in dropping by, contact me in a few weeks and I'll confirm if I have everything ready to go.

I'll give you who replied already first pick once I get some made if you're still interested.

Joe,

Take your camera with you and let's make a Tech Tip/Feature article out of it!

Thanks,
John

Jon, I'm interested in a set also...

Thanks

-RT1
*

How are the adapters doing?

Just got my wheels back from sandblasting and got my POR-15 and topcoat paint in the mail to paint them. I plan to get them painted this weekend, and once dry, I'll take measurements of the hub ID with calipers to make sure I get the correct slip fit on the OD of the adapters. Hopefully next week I'll be making them up.

What are these adapters? Are they required because the wheel is centered by the hub instead of the wheel studs and nuts?


Stuart

Yes, exactly.
The hubs in question are pre 1954 1.5 and 2 ton. And the wheels are 1954 or later, same bolt pattern but larger center hole, new wheels include 19.5" wheels from GM "step vans".

From this Tech Tip http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/wheels/


Note on the 10-lug wheels with 7.25” bolt circle
-- The one problem you may have with the new wheels is the wrong center hole size. To start with you need to know what size center hole your original wheels have, actually measure it, or get an idea from the list of years and bolt patterns below. All the new style tubeless wheels have a large 5.25” center hole (except for the larger ford 5.46 center hole wheels). The problem comes when you want to use these new wheels on an older (generally pre 1954) truck, as there is a ½” difference in hole size. Because these wheels are hub-piloted and it is very important that the center hole fit snugly on the hub as designed.

To allow use of new wheels on the older trucks, a set of simple spacers may be needed. For the front these spacers/bushings would be just less than the thickness of the wheel measured at the stud holes, a shrink or press fit on the hub (nominal 4.75”), and a slip fit in the wheel (nominal 5.25”). If you used the original front clamp plate (that has only 5 lug holes and covers the other 5) the adapter bushing could be a slip fit on the hub, as this cover would keep it from falling out. The rear spacers/bushings would be similar to the front, but twice the thickness to allow dual wheels. If it was not a press fit you could again use the clamp plate like on the front, but with 10 stud holes (these clamp plates are stock). Some Loctite and frequent inspections may also work to retain the bushings.

The clamp plates' purpose is to add strength at the center of the wheel. The wheels are designed to use the clamp plates. I have used big washer face lug nuts without the clamp plates, but am switching back to using the clamp plates now that I know better.

Grigg

Got the wheels painted this evening with POR-15 primer and epoxy topcoat. Once thoroughly dry I'll take measurements and decide my slip fit dimensions. Hopefully we can start cutting this weekend if my brother can get time in the machine shop he works in,,, stand by.

Grigg,,, suggestions on the slip fit tolerance? I was thinking .010-.030" over

Yes, I have been thinking about it, but have not had time to measure any wheels and hubs.

Just my preliminary guess is the slip fit of the bushing/adapter on the hub should be only a few thousandths if any, or almost an interference fit. Ideally because the wall is so thin and the relatively large diameter will allow it to grow if heated slightly, you could plan on no clearance, or a slight interference fit the heat should allow it to about drop on.

The wheel fit to the adapter should be reasonably snug, I am guessing 0.005" to 0.015", but best to keep it snug. 0.030 sounds like way to much.

If you can wait till next week I can remove the rear wheels from my truck that has a 1988 Dana axle with the nominal 5.25" hub diameter, and measure it with a micrometer. Then this would be the outside diameter to shoot for, as it is what the factory did.
I could also pull the wheel off my old axle with the nominal 4.75" hub and accurately measure that too, that will give a good idea of what the ID needs to be. In reality it would be a good idea for everyone to measure their hubs and make the adapters to perfectly fit each hub. Once you get 8 or 12 measurements you can decide of they are all close enough to make adapters on speculation that the rest will be the same.

Again, if you can wait till next week I will have time to do some measuring.

Grigg

I'll do the same with my original truck wheels and the 4.75" nominal hubs for an extra data point on the slip fit.

I have some crummy news all, but a data point to add to the wheel swap article. I have a 1950 1-1/2 ton truck and the 3500hd 19.5" wheels will NOT fit over the rear axle hub. Like a dummy I tried for the first time today, and the relief in the rim for mounting a tubeless tire interferes significantly with the brake hub. Looks like I'm now in the market for a Dana 70 with disk brakes...

This will definately put the spacers on hold...

Now I am curious if they will fit over 1.5 ton brakes?
If they do you may be able to just change out the brakes on your original axle?
I know I have seen the 19.5" wheels on a few big bolts, I'll try to dig up some pictures.

I mentioned in the Tech Tip that brake drums on the bigger trucks may be a problem with 19.5" wheels? Should I re-word that part, and how?

In your search for a modern rear axle with same bolt pattern consider these available options:
Dana 80
Dana 70HD
Rockwell (small one) has square tubes and fewer gear ratio choices.

All should have disc brakes and will be found under various GM chassis, P30, 3500HD, Vandura 3500HD (the one with the long snout).

Grigg

Doggonit !, Thought I was going to finally get to drive my '53 COE, with the wrong wheels on it('54 wheels) out of the back yard, with a set of these adapters.

All, This isn't the original rear end in this truck, and I think it may actually be from a 2 ton, so if they had different brakes, then this conversion may still work for an original 1.5 ton truck. Just thought of that. I'll take a look at some of the old manuals and see if they may have had different hubs on the 1.5 tons.

If it turns out that the 1.5 ton trucks have a drum that the 19.5 wheels will fit over, then I'll still make up some adapters for other people. I think I'm opting for a different rear at this point.

Grigg,, there's a guy south of KC that has a Dana 70HD 10 bolt disk brake rear that he wants $250 for. That's a good 4 hour drive but for that price I think it's worth it. It has 4.56 gears which would be much more manageable for gearing options with a smallblock under the hood.

Spanky, what specific year and model is your truck,, maybe we can see if the brake drums are smaller on yours. Any way you can measure the diameter of yours? I'll do the same on mine.

I don't think they'll work for me either, I have not measured mine but the drums are almost touching the 20in wheels...Mine is a 2 ton 47....

Jon,
I might be interested in a set of the adapters at some point for one of my big trucks. At the least I'm watching to see how they workout.
If that rear is the one in Peculiar that's only about 30 minutes south of me, I'd be willing to pick it up for ya and set on it till you can make it east if the guy needs it picked up soon. In exchange for good details on the swap and gas money.

Mongo

Yep, it's the one from Peculiar. I'm actually going tomorrow after work to pick it up. I'll still give you any info I can on the swap though. Also I'll try to make sure whatever we determine on the rear ends and if there is an original that will work with the adapters, I'll make sure it gets documented.

If in good shape it is a very fair price.
If it needs internal parts like gears or bearings then keep looking, as you can still find a great one for similar money. even if the price drops to reflect a poor condition, I would keep looking for a better one to save the time, money, and aggravation of a complete rebuild.

Just for guesstimating purposes, when I put mine in a few years ago rear rotors were still under $100 each, calipers $65 each, and set of pads $35.
To go with a faster ring and pinion 4.10, 3.73, or 3.54 you will need a new carrier assembly or locker, this can be $250-$890 not counting the price of the gears and bearings and seals needed too.

Let us know what you find,

Grigg

Well it looked great when I picked it up.... then when I tore into it I quickly discovered that this rear end was from a truck that had gotten really hot in the past. Seals and bearings will have to be replaced. I got a set of calipers for $27 each plus $30 core charge. Rotors look pretty good to me,, probably just have them turned. The 4.56 gears ought to work out pretty good for me with the OD brownie transmission I have. The carrier and ring and pinion gears appear to be in good shape.

All in all, it wasn't the deal I was hoping it would be but bearings are the only thing I'm paying for beyond what I was expecting to do anyway. Such is life.

On another note, has anyone had a chance to measure their 1.5 ton AD truck brake drums? I'm curious if there are any drums that the newer 19.5 inch wheels will fit over. If so I'll still make up some adapter rings if people want them. Also, if anyone wants to use 5.25 inch hub bore 20 inch diameter wheels on their 53 and previous AD truck, these adapters will still work for you.

These adapters are also required for 22.5" wheels on a pre 53/54 truck.

Grigg

Hmmm, things are looking up..:)

All,
I was looking thru the big bolt galleries and came across Gary's 1954 2-ton http://www.stovebolt.com/gallery/perry_gary_1954.htm that has the 19.5 wheels on it. Granted this axle already has the larger 5.25 hub bore, but it could be that the 19.5 wheels will indeed bolt onto these without interference issues. I havce a question in to him to see if he can measure his for me and let me know. Stand by.