The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay I think my starter went to... EDIT!!! check now!

the big parts bin in the sky. Won't do anything. All connections are tight, I'm not sure how good the ground is but it worked before and I haven't done anything to it so that should be fine. Tried to turn it over last night, and nothing. Don't know if it's the solenoid or what but do you guys have anything to say except to get another starter? I'll check the battery but I don't think it's the cause.

Nope, the battery was almost fully charged. So what should I do?

Do you have a foot stomp starter?

Well now, I think I misunderstood what the solenoid was. I was under the impression that this was the solenoid, but the site calls it a "switch." So is it a switch or a solenoid but just called a switch. I'm going to check the manual once I find out what my mom did with it!!!

Yes truckernix, I do. And this is off topic but I see it's your birthday so happy birthday.

Tap the side of the starter with the handle of a hammer. The brushes may be worn short and tapping will sometime move them enough to make contact. If that works replace the brushes. Have you checked the voltage at the starter. A volt meter or light bulb will do the trick. Check the voltage with the meter ground wire to a good ground and then to the starter body that should tell you about the starter ground. If the ground is not good at the starter check the ground strap on the engine block. Usually the back side of the starter will have an access to the brush an end of the armature. On mine there is a clamp screw that will allow you to slide a cover enough to see the inside. Give it a smell test if it is burnt it will smell burnt. The rebuild on the last dead starter at the local auto electric place wasn't much. The brushes are an easy fix that you can do.

good luck
Neil

Found the culprit, I think. Hooked the negative clamp on the meter to the fuel pump and touched the point of the meter to the starter and if that light lit up any more it would have busted it was so bright! Touched it to the switch and nothing. Or am I thinking wrong. But really, the switch is very rusted.

Tested the switch again, with it depressed, with the truck out of gear, and nothing still. So I'm thinking that it is bad. I even filed where it contacts the linkage part that pushes down on the switch and still nothing.

jdl,
I posted a reply yesterday but it seemed to have disappeared. Anyhow, thanks for the birthday wish.

If you have voltage at the connection on the starter switch, that is good. Use soemthing to push down on the switch button without moving the starter mechanism. That should make the starter really spin over freely. Make sure the truck isn't in gear. If that doesn't work, disconnect the battery ground and remove the starter switch. Maybe the contacts are fried. They are easily replaced.

jdl, I think truckernix is correct. Anyway, the gizmo on your starter is a 'switch.' A solenoid is a coil that has a moveable core in the center. When the solenoid energizes, it pulls the core toward the center of the coil. That movement is used to shift something- starter drives, in the case of engine starters. A solenoid may also have a contactor (switch) that connects electrical terminals together- as with engine starters again, mostly Delco Remy starters, but others use that setup also.

Harvester

Well, I got the switch off. Contacts are good, I think. It was getting electricity to it because when it was off(note: I didn't touch it with my hands and I had gloves on) of the starter the voltmeter showed electricity to the underside of the lug on the switch AND the part that comes down when it is pushed in. I'll take it off again and post pictures but it's still no-go.

Well, the pictures are in my Photobucket link below.

Your photobucket is marked private. Make sure the truck isn't in gear and you should be able to short the 2 wires to the switch. If it spins it is the switch if it doesn't look at the starter.

good luck

Try that. It's not private anymore. Short two wires to the switch? I'm confused there.

The switch is a switch the contacts just give a connection fron the power into the switch to the wire going to the starter. If you connect the two wires you will bypass the switch and send the voltage from the power in to the power to the starter. Brush them together just enough to see if the starter jumps. Is a 54 starter a foot switch type?

Neil

Yes it is a foot switch type. But I'm still not clear with the "second" wire. The switch has one wire. I am not aware of any other wire, unless you are talking about the negative battery cable. The wire on the switch is the positive cable.

There isn't a second wire on the foot stomper style, exept for the one that bypasses the ballast resistor. The switch in this case only contacts with the starter itself, directly to the armature. Just from the sound of what you describe, is may have a dead spot in the armature itself. One way to test it is to tap the starter housing lightly with a ballpeen hammer while someone cranks it over. Sometimes they just hang up. If it doesn't go, then it's time for an overhaul.

And if I need to remove the starter, how would I do that, and where would I take it(recommended place) to have it overhauled?

Startr comes out real easy one these old trucks. There's basically 2 bolts that hold them on, one on top that you can see, then another directly opposite of it on the bottom. Some years use a stud and nut instead of a bolt, mine was that way, which also serves as a mounting poin for the chassis ground strap.
As far as overhauling, look for a shop that overhauls alternators and/or does electrical work on cars. They'll have the equipment to properly test the armature ans windings, plus turn the armature if necessary.

Thanks, I think I'll take it to my FLAPS. Maybe they can test/work on it.

Hmmm, I'm thinking maybe it's the solenoid. Haven't tried the tapping with a hammer since my mom works a lot.... Anyway, I am thinking that it indeed is the solenoid because when I touched the battery cable to the starter(the little square metal piece sticking out that the switch makes contact with) I could hear little pops or crackles. My question is: Where do you get a solenoid for this starter. I've looked at ACTP(American Classic Truck Parts) and they only have the 60'-72' solenoid. I'll look at Jc's(Jimmy Carter) but I don't have any idea what places around me(like Autozone, O'Reilly's,) would have one.

jdl,
You may have just answered your ? on the starter, if you hit the main lug with juice it shoulda spun over not made poppin cracklin burnin sounds, I would bet the brushes are fried in the starter or the Armature is corroded up real bad where the brushes ride.
I would disasemble the starter, inspect it for burns where the brushes ride on the armature, if OK clean up the brushes and armature and give that a try.
cheap way to check out the starter before buyin parts and such.
just a tip
Tim

It doesn't have a solenoid. A solenoid is used in later starters. When you mash the foot starter the first thing that happens is the gear in the starter engages the gear on the flywheel - that's what the solenoid does in newer starters.

If you hotwire your starter without doing anything else it should spin freely, if not it's defective. If it is defective pull it out, put it on the bench, turn the gear a little and hotwire it again. If it still doesn't turn, you got problems. If it does spin you probably have a "dead spot". Either way, a rebuild is in order.

Just hope you didn't burn it up trying to get your engine started. Not likely, but possible if you ran it for long periods of time with a 12v battery.

Czechman, how come the shop manual has a section for "solenoid replacement"?

Ok, Czechman, I think I know why I thought it had a solenoid. That's what the manual called the lever that actuates the gear- a solenoid. Anyway, you have this 13 year old with the starter off of his truck- I need further instructions! Hey, I feel like I did something! - I hope.

Well, I've been thinking.(that might not be good) Would it just be easier and maybe even cheaper to order a 12v starter and generator so that I don't have to worry about them burning up with the 12v battery and then put in a power reducer so as not to burn up any of the gauges?

actually JD, the 6V starter will not only be fine for ages on 12V as long as you don't try to move the truck around the yard on it, but it'll spin over way better than a 12V one .... you will need the 12V gen/reg tho, and of course the proper resistors on electrical gauges .... and don't waste yer cash on "ordering" anything until you try to find good used, there's no doubt a few 12V generators lurking in folks stashes here, find one cheap and put in new brushes

Bill

Someone above said to disassemble the starter and inspect it and then clean it up.... Is that a good idea...??? Don't think so. And as far as the generator gos, is it better in your opinion to get an alternator? I mean, I don't think it is because I am not adding any options for the truck any more than what's already on it and I don't want to have to mess with rewiring/out of place weird looking alternator.

might not be a good idea for you to do the starter, not knowing enough about that kinda thing, but a cleaning, maybe new bushings if necessary, and it could be good for a long time .... if you have an auto-electric shop around, you could sweet talk them into testing it for you, and if necessary, a pro rebuild would be cheaper than new

as for an alternator, generators work fine, just require attention because of the need for ocassional brush replacement - alternators have higher output at lower speeds and really require no attention until they just up and quit, when you plunk in a new one and go ... most folks would't even notice, and it doesn't take much change in wiring, which you'll eventually replace anyway, just get a harness for alt rather than gen, all suppliers offer them

Bill

Thanks. My neighbor might be able to do something.

Jordan, the reason that there is a sectionon solenoid replacement on the starter in the manual for your truck is that the Hydromatic equipped trucks used one on their starters. manual trans trucks stayed with the foot stomper until '59 (6 cylinder only).

Thanks.

Well, my mom just seems to want to buy a new starter. I can't think of any place around here that would be able to work on it. My question is: Do you guys know of any places that would be able to fix the starter, because it'd be cheaper than buying a new one.

Let me toss my two cents in here.

There are postings in the Tech Tips about starter motors and how-to's about working on them. It is not hard, but it can be tedious.

If you work on a starter motor, be sure to keep everything clean-- no grease and grime and NO little metal pieces, parts or shavings that can interfere with good electrical operations.

Make sure that insulation is in GOOD shape, no frayed ends, and that all connections are clean and tight --dirty and loose (even a little bit) cause higher resistance which equals voltage drop which results in higher current through the circuit.

The masher/stomper starter system is a combination of a mechanical drive and an electrical circuit.

The mechanical drive is (as has been noted) the collections of levers between your foot mashing the starter button in the cab to the starter motor housing.

The actuating lever on the starter motor housing does two things: It actuates the internal lever on the starter motor that drives the motor gear along the armature shaft into mesh with the flywheel. It also pushes the metal button down on the starting switch (that one in your picture that mounts on the top of the starter motor housing). That action makes the positive (the big red wire from the battery) electrical connection to the brushes and field wires inside the starter motor. Those magic electrical parts make the motor turn, and when the rotating armature is connected to the flywheel by the gear on the armature shaft, VOILA!, th truck engine turns over, and starts!

Nothing could be simpler. These old mechanical-shift starter motors were used on Chevrolets, GMC's, Studebakers, tractors and a variety of other engines. They are wonderfully reliable.

I strongly recommend that you keep the 6-volt electrical system for now, as any alteration to a 12-volt system will introduce a different set of variables to getting the truck up and running--not that you can do it, but the one-step-at-a-time approach is a good approach for reaching a successful result that you can depend on to be there as you make step-by-step modifications.

Get 'er goin' first. Then if you cant to go to a 12-volt electrical system you can do that later.

My '46 is 62 years old, and the 6-volt system is still in place, working fine. Why mess with success?

OK. Anyway, if you guys are up to the instructions, I'd be willing to take it apart and inspect/clean it. Haven't found anyplace that would do anything with it and my mom just said that we might as well buy a new one so I'm open for instructions. Not like I'm going to hurt anything because either way if it doesn't work we were getting a new one. The only reason I was going to change over to 12v was because I was told that it wasn't reliable in the winter and Koolkar said that he was going to bring an alternator and that I should just go ahead and buy a 12v battery. I've been seriously thinking about doing just what you said, Glenn, and just leaving it 6v for now and going and buying a cheap 6v battery, because I have enough money to buy one.

Well, I think the starter is fried. It smells like mold/mildew and had moisture inside, plus it had I don't know how much crud inside. Using the manual I took it apart, and got about two inches of metal, rust, and dirt out. Going to order a starter and see about a 6v battery. Besides, it's not like the 12v battery I have is going to be useless if everything checks out in the 6v system. We can use it in the 85' Chevy.

On an impulse, I tried the starter.... AND IT TURNED OVER!!! YAY!!! I guess someone gave me some extra luck because I sure am having a lot lately. Now if I can get my brother to look at the points(it HAS to be the condenser or the points, probably the points.

Help!
New here. I just got a 1957 3100 with the 235 and the floor starter. Exact same problem, but I didn't get lucky.
It worked great. Then I power washed the engine compartment while the engine was running. After it was pretty dry and still running I shut it off and went to start it again. The starter worked for about 5 tries then stopped completely. I did however hear some sizzling noise when my dad pushed in the starter, but it still didn't spin.
Other things I have noticed; not all of my gauges work, but originally when I turned the key over they would bounce. Now they don't move at all. To me it seems like there is a fuse blown but for the life of my I can't find it.
I took the starter off and it was filled with water so I went down to the local salvage yard and got a replacement one. I was so excited to put it in and bring my truck back to life, but after the install it still doesn't want to start. This unit does look like it has had a rebuild.
My question is... Is there a fuse I'm missing or is it that I just got a bad used one?
Help, want my truck back.
Thanks,
Nick

Nick - there aren't any fuses, hidden or not, that would have any effect on the starter or the gauges, and likely the reason the truck won't start [assuming the new starter does turn it over] is the ignition circuits are in a similar condition to the starter .... you might start by going over all the wiring and connections [especially any grounds] under the hood, and check for moisture in the distributor and in the cap towers

what you should have learned is not to power wash electrical things - also note that with a power washer you likely blew water thru some of the holes in the firewall where there might be wires running that have frayed a bit over the years .... if you feel you need to clean the engine, do it not running with critical bits covered with plastic bags

Bill

The best thing to do is hot wire the starter and see if it spins. I should have done this before I bought one from the salvage yard. My old one works fine. The six gauge wire that runs from the battery to the starter was very corroded. I cut the end and reconnected it at the battery side and what do you know a working truck. All of gauges are getting power now as well.