The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline Brake fluid transmission fluid and if I should add any yet(1954 3100 Chevy)

Well, what brake fluid,(brand, kind, etc...) what transmission fluid(brand, kind, etc...) and should I add any yet? I opened the brake reservoir to see if there was any in it and it was completely empty, but it looked like someone had replaced the rubber tubes going from the metal lines to the wheels, so that may be why. And I'm wondering if I should add any, along with the tranny fluid. Any recommended brands? I don't remember, but I'm sure there was a post on what kind(silicone or ________) and that you shouldn't use silicone because it eats at the seals, but I'll search to see if I can find any info.

Jordan, how long had the truck been sitting? If it had sit for a number of years you will probably have to rebuild the wheel cylinders. It may be best to just drain the whole system and refill with fresh fluid. I suspect the transmission is filled with about 90 weight gear oil. some of the experts will tell you shortly.

The brake fluid should be DOT 3 OR 4,
You might be suprised to get Pedal after a few strokes...
I would look at all brake lines/hoses/wheel cylinders before driving around the field much....

The truck sat for at least 5 years, and if the person who had the truck last that filled the tranny, if they did at all, knew what they were doing, it should be 90 weight. I probably should drain it though, since I have no idea what's in it, right? And you were talking about draining the breaks, right?

Just to put your mind at ease and know that you have fresh tranny fluid, it would be a good idea to drain all the fluids and go with new. 90 weight in the tranny and the rear end are good, you might want to use some Lucas with it. and the brakes can be drained, and with the hoses unhooked so that nothing runs into the wheel cylinders, you can run some alcohol through the sytem to help clean everything out without hurting the system. Rebuild kits for your wheel cylinders are cheap and easy enough to install. It doesn't matter how strong the truck runs, if you can't get it to "Whoa" when you want it to. Good luck and keep at it.

Thanks.

This is probably going to sound stupid, but what kind of alcohol? Only thing that I can think of is the type that you get for cleaning you face or something.

Isopropryl Alcohol....availible at Drugstores, paint supply stores.

Great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have A LOT OF THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok, should I take the wheel off(after jacking it up, of course) to get better room to disconnect the line?

OK, I do not know what I am talking about (what's new) but I think I would be careful running any kind of alcohol all the way through all parts of a brake system.

Is it possible that alcohol might cause swelling or other problems in some rubber parts?

Just being careful, in making this post.

I'd agree with Tim, alcohol isn't the thing to use in a brake system .... I'd completely tear down the brakes and chack everything, replace anything that needs it [rusty guts and old rubber] then refill with proper fluid, if you want to do some cleaning when it's apart, use 'Brake Kleen' [basicly acetone] .... if you just want to play around the yard, just add enough fluid to get pedal and pull it all apart later

Personally I would fill up the MC with brake fluid and see what happens. After that if there are leaks, you might be into replacing most of the brake components.

Yes - brake fluid is cheap, and most of the parts will probably need to be replaced anyway, so fill 'er up!

Ok. I took off the wheel, and guess what! When I spun the thing(man, I wish I could remember what it's called!) that has the studs for the lugs, the drum was just barely scraping the drum cover, just like it was supposed to!

To put your mind at ease plus learn something I would suggest that you start with a good "old fashioned brake job". It's not that difficult to do and you would clearly understand how everything works in your truck's brake system. When your done you will be most confident that you can "STOP" your truck!! Safety concern Number 1!!

Just by dissassembling all the brake parts, cleaning them, installing new wheel cylinder kits after honing the wheel cylinders, checking the drums to make sure there not scarred (if so they may need to be turned on a lathe), inspecting the brake shoes for wear to see if you need to replace any of them (in pairs mind you), and finally topping off the whole system with fresh brake fluid and bleeding the system of air bubbles....you should be in good shape!! Just approach all these tasks methodically, with patients taking your time to do a good job. If you get hung up or have a concern you know that there are plenty of folks here that are more than happy to guide you through! I didn't mention "ALL" the steps you must take so be prepared to ask questions!

And, BTW, take some pictures with that camera as you work! For documentation on how the parts fit so that you will remember just how they go back together! Most of all, don't be afraid!! You can't mess up. It's only a bunch of parts!!

Ok, I went out side just to see if my system would work. Filled it up with "SuperTech" from Wally World "suitable for all disc and brake drums" and put the plug back in. NO LEAKS! But also, NO PRESSURE! It's all staying in the reservoir, and not in the MC. Is this due to air in the system?

When there is either "air" in the brake system, or a "fluid leak" in the system you will experience what is called a soft pedal where there is hardly any pressure at all and the brake pedal could easily go all the way to the floor when you pump on it. Not a good sign, however, a "warning" that something is wrong somewhere.

Well, I looked at all of the wheels, so there's no leak there. There's no gushing leak, or I'd see it. But for some reason, the fluid is staying in the MC.

Describe what happens when you push down on the brake pedal with all the force you can give it and try to "hold it".

Secondly, how far does the pedal travel before it stops and you cannot push it further?

Finally, does it go all the way to the floor when you push it down with all your force?

And remember, just because you can't "see" a leak doesn't mean there isn't one. There are so many connections in this "hydraulic system" that it will take a careful study to figure out just where the weak/leak point is.

Ok. In response to the above questions. #1. When I push with all my force, it goes to the floor. #2 When the pedal goes to the floor. #3 I can push the pedal with my pinky finger all the way to the floor.

Jordan,

The brake system needs to be bled. If you have a Shop Manual, the instructions are in the manual.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/2003/bf90347.htm

http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/how_to/4213448.html

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_howto_bleedbrakes.shtml

Would other people reading this thread please pipe-in with opinions about about having a 13 year old novice check out a brake system (even if he is very smart and knows how to be careful and how to ask questions)?

Tim

Well, I'm getting closer. I'm thinking that the lines will need to be replaced, BIG TIME! The rubber hoses aren't in bad condition, but the fittings are CORRODED! Now, my question is: How do you get the drum cover off?

If you do replace the steel lines, you definetly want to do the rubber lines too, as the rubber will degrade faster than the steel will. Now, to answer the question on getting the drum off. 1, you'll want the truck supported on jackstands, safety 1st! once you get the wheel off, the drum should just slide off, but more than likely it will be rusted on. here's a little trick I use. Take a ballpeen hammer, a 16 ouncer will do, then give the drum a few good solid raps beteewn the wheel studs (don't hit the studs), this will free up the rust. You may also have to lightly tap the drum on the outer lip from the backside to get it to come off if it's severly rusted. You also may have to back off the adjuster if there is a rust ridge on the drum. To do that, there's a slot on the lower part of the backing plate. Remove the plug (if prsent), then you cane use a flat blade screwdriver to move the adjuster wheel. Refer to the manual for the correct procedure there.

Jordan, what tclederman referenced to is excellent! Please read and try your best to absorb the information. If you don't understand something, post a question.

I asked you about what the brake pedal was doing and you confirmed that it was easily pushed to the floor. No pressure = no braking!!

I know your young, but please, slow down and take the time to absorb what people are saying to you in this thread. You must understand that there are folks here that know a whole lot of stuff about old trucks and such. Many of them are old enough to easily be your grandfather and have had many experiences revolving around the repair and safe maintainance of vehicles. That is a good thing!

I have no problem with a very interested 13 year old novice checking out a brake system on an old truck as long as he "LISTENS" to what people here are telling him. HOWEVER, he needs the watchful eye of an experienced family member to help guide him along the way. Someone has to "physically" be there to get across to you what we tell you through this website. Which leads me to a very important question..."Jordan, do you have a good family friend who is interested as much as you are in the restoration of your truck?" The only reason I ask is because you are communicating over the Internet and the transfer of information to you from very experienced people could easily be misunderstood by you because you are so young. At 13 you really need a close local family friend who will also help guide and physically show you what issues need to be addressed and how to solve them. You cannot do this alone!

Thanks. Yeah, I figured out that I will need the hoses too. They aren't expensive, just $12-$14, and my mom, if she will, will have enough money at the end of the month to buy me the brake lines. I do have a question, are the lines from Jim Carter already flared and bent correctly or? This is the impression that I had from the description. Also, is there anything else that I should get while I'm doing that?

If you get a line kit, they will already be made up, ready to install.
Here's something that you may try before you strat tearing into the system too much, fill the master Cylider, then try pumping the pedal gently, rather than just pushing it down. See if it builds up any pressure. Could be that the system is dry and needs bled, but it may take a bit to get fluid down to the wheel cylinders. Also, this will allow you to see any potential leaks in the system.

Well, I HAVE filled up the reservoir, as mentioned above, but it wouldn't go into the MC. I figured that it was plugged, but also it could be from air in the system. And everything seems so corroded that it would be better to wait until I have the new lines and then go from there, but then again, the system may be fine, but I doubt it.

By pumping the pedal as I described will draw the fluid into the system, it may take a little time to get it in, though. And you will have to refill it several times.
In the interest of safety, a complete overhaul would be best, especially if you suspect anything as being marginal.

Ok, guess I need an overhaul, or something close, because I tried what you said, and as of right now, I was out there 23 minutes and nothing changed.

You know Jordan those lines might be ok and not need replacing. That would save your mom a few bucks you could use for replacing the wheel cylinders and buying other fun stuff. Before spending all that money I think I would take each line off and clean it up and check it out, replace your wheel cyl. and get to know your brake system. You might just get by on the cheap.

BTW Jordan do you have one of these, a factory assembly manual?


You will find it most helpful. A shop manual will also help.

the kid is only 13 whos tell him to put alcohol in the brake system he cant even buy it!

The alcohol taint the Drinkin' kind....

I have not read every post in detail but something really concerns me here. With all this talk of brake lines, it must be pointed out that some of this is accessible only from underneath. Now that is a whole subject that must be understood correctly. We don't want to preside over a tragedy here.

He says he can push the pedal to the floor with his "pinky finger"... is it possible that the pedal isn't even connected to the MC and he's just pushing it against the resistance of the return spring?

Seems to me a good examination of the problem is in order before we start throwing money at the problem... money that he doesn't appear to have a lot of.

But that's just my opinion.

truckernix is absolutely right! Jordan, Please be most careful when putting yourself underneath your truck!! You must always think "SAFETY" when working around this heavy vehicle. It only takes "one second" for an accident to happen! Please use caution!

Ok, ok, yes I'm being as CAREFUL AS I CAN!!!!!!!! When I jacked the truck up, I put a concrete block underneath the axle so that it would be almighty hard for the truck to fall, and when I come back in, I don't leave the truck up on the jack. I'm being as careful as I can. And when I crawl under the truck ALL FOUR WHEELS ARE ON THE GROUND, AND CHOCKED! I don't want to be a tragedy!


P.S. Yes it is connected to the MC, because I looked under the truck while my mom pushed on the pedal. And I saw a little rod being pushed into the MC, just like it's supposed to.

P.P.S. I'm not sure that I can get those lines off. Most of what I could see was rusted, but the connections were worse. I was going to try to take the line and disconnect it where it connects to the rubber hose, but I'm worried that I'll just snap the line off.

How's your tool box? If you can't get the fittings to break loose and you round one off, well that's what a vise-grip is for. However replacing the lines should be the last resort to get these brakes working.
You may have to replace the MC and that would be easier than all those lines.
Take the fitting at the MC off and with the MC full, pump her up and if nothing comes out that fitting you need a new MC.
I have one I will give you for the postage.

Oh, THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!