The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Timing mark on Cover??

Before I rebuilt the 305 SBC, the timing cover that was on it had the timing mark in the center of the cover. Is this correct?? The new chrome cover I got has it mounted to the side, now I dont know which one is correct. I was told that the chrome timing cover was for SBC's, and it does fit. I tried turning the motor over and starting it, but not one pop or anythig, then the batt went dead. So I figured the distributor needs to be adjusted, what do you guys think. Should I also check for spark (duh right?)? Thanks guys,

- Shane

The center timing tab is for engines with a long water pump and LOTS of accessories........making it the only way to time (no other way to see the marks).
All others have the timing tab on the side.......
Get a different balancer or mount your old one back on.......chrome stuff leaks anyway (guess how I found out)and it won't go any faster..........
The old saying is "if it won't go, chrome it!"

When your rotor is pointing to no. 1 cyl, check to see if the piston is up and that both valves are closed.........if not, you may be 180 deg. out.
This means #6 is ready to fire.............pull dizzy out and turn 180 and re-install.

If you have no spark to begin with, ignore everything I said............. :o

Spark is good,,, especially at the correct time

The chrome cover I bought for my 400 did not have a timing mark indicator with it. I had to get one seperate and it bolts on with two of the cover bolts. I guess you buy the correct indicator for whatever engine you have. Anyway, I have just rebuilt two 305 sbc's and a 400 sbc and there is a difference in where the timing mark goes as there is a difference from the seventy and earlier model small block cam to crank timing than the eighty and later engines. I forget the exact year they change to where you don't put the crank and cam gear marks together, but the cam gear mark goes on top. This can throw your thinking off when you put in dist.

Truck Tinker

Well, the distibutor is ok, and the motor isnt 180 degrees out, cause she fired right up today....but only when you turned the key to start did she stay running. When its left in the on position the engine dies. We tested the coil wire, when you turn the motor over the wire is hot, when you let it off to the on position (when the motor should be running) the wire is not hot. So, I was told I might have a bad switch, or I wired the starter up wrong.

So, the starter has 3 wires, 1 is the big hot wire from the battery, one should be the switch wire, and the other??? the two smaller wires are different sizes too. I was wondering If one of the smaller wires went on the big post with the + battery cable? What do you guys think/know? Thanks,

- Shane

On the older point-ignition engines, the starter has 3 wires. The purple-insulated small wire goes to the engine side of the solenoid. It's the starter energizing lead from the "start" position of the ignition switch. The smaller wire is usually brown, and goes on the small terminal away from the block. It's an ignition resistor bypass wire that puts full battery voltage to the coil during cranking. There should be a red-insulated wire with a big ring terminal that mounts under the battery hot cable on top of the solenoid. It supplies voltage to the fuse block, ignition switch, etc. If you're not getting voltage to the coil with the switch in the "run" position, you've probably failed to connect a wire at the coil, or you've got a bad ignition switch. The "+" terminal of the coil should have two wires, one from the switch, and the bypass lead from the starter.
Jerry

Hmm, if it makes a difference the dist isnt the original, but one of those huge Delco dist's. There is only 1 wire going to the coil, and the other available plug is marked "tach". Im not sure what color wires on down at the starter, but will fiddle with them tomorow. The motor is a 305 out of a 77 nova. But I am happy cause this is my 1st engine rebuild, and she started right up even though it wont stay running for some wiring reason.

On the started, theres the big post, then the 2 smaller ones, marked S and R. I have both of the smaller wires on the S post. See, before I put the starter back in, one of the smallers wires' connectors was broke off, so I dont even know what size was on there before, so I put a small one on, and played with them a bit, then I got the thing to turn over. But maybe one of the smaller wires goes on the big post?? Also, I tried finding other wires that could possibly go to the coil, but there was only that one, and the type of connector on it allowed it to fit in only one spot. The only other wire that might go to it, was red and I tested it with a test lamp when I turn the ignition to the on position, but it is very dim/faint, so its on some type of resistor or something. This wire I am pretty sure though, goes to the electric choke on my Edelbrock 1406 carb.

So, for now I will just play with the wires on the starter tomorow, and go from there. Please give me some more help if possible, thanks!

- Shane

OK, you created the problem when you put both wires on the "S" terminal! Take the smaller of the two off, tape it up, and don't connect it to anything! It's shorting the ignition voltage out through the starter solenoid. You don't need the bypass wire on the HEI ignition system, so don't connect anything to the "R" terminal at the solenoid. BTW, you should have a BIG wire running from the ignition switch to the Bat. terminal on the distributor cap. The original wire is nickel-chrome resistance wire from the switch to the coil, and drops the voltage. The HEI ignition needs full batery voltage, so find the small silvery-colored wire at the back of the ignition switch, cut it off, and run a #12 or larger wire from there to the Bat. terminal on the distributor. If you're still using the resistor wire, your ignition is only performing at partial efficiency.
Jerry

Did you come over to my house last night, and look at it?? I did what you said and she fired right up and ran good! There was a few squeeking sounds but they dissapeared as the engine finally lubricated itself (or most of itself). Can I seat the rings just be reving up the motor, or do I have to drive the thing?? Also, there is a knocking in the motor that i can hear under the truck, what in the hell is that all about??? Thanks guys for the help so far!

- Shane

Sqeaks on a dry start are bearings. I hope you haven't damaged some of them before the oil got there. I always spin the oil pump with a drill motor and an extension shaft before installing the distributor to be sure all the bearings are well-lubed before the first startup. Check the bolts connecting the toque converter to the flywheel, if you're running an automatic transmission. Does the knock change sound when you put the transmission in gear? In neutral, it will be a loud "Clack-Clack" sound, changing to a dull click, or disappearing altogether when it's in gear, if it's a loose converter. Good luck!
Jerry

Now your scaring me, I dont think the bearings are what the sqeaking was, I lubed them pretty well with that "Assembly Lube" so they should have been fine. Also, I tried spinning the oil pump, but how in the heck do you go about doing that with the engine completely assembled and in the truck?? I tried rigging up a flat head bit on an extended 3/8 drive to the drill, but it just slipped off, so I said "The Hell With It". I personally think the squeaking had something to do with the heads, and the new vavle seats or whatever was replaced in them, that were never oiled. But, the main thing is that it runs, but that knocking sound that raises the hairs on the back of my neck......I dont like it. And I dont think its the torque converter unless it managed to come loose even after I tightened it. The fly wheel should be fine as I torqued it to specs.

Now that I get thinking about it, it may be the torque convertor and I hope to God that thats all it is. I will check the bolts on it tomorow and make sure thier snug. I am affraid to run the engine for too long as it heated up pretty fast, but is that normal for a completly rebuilt motor? If it were the torque convertor, would it be inside the thing itself, or the bolts, or the transmission shafts that it slids onto??

Also, if you didnt see my last post above, can the rings be seated by reving the motor, or does it have to be driving (putting a load on the motor)??

Thanks guys for the help so far, but keep it coming please!

- Shane

You do need to put the engine under load conditions to seat the rings properly, so you will need to drive it to do this correctly. Good luck.

If I remember correctly from some previous posts on this job, you're using the original camshaft and lifters, not a new assembly, right? It shouldn't be necessary to do a run-in on the cam in that case. Sometimes the rocker arms will squeak on startup, if they were not lubed when the heads were set up and the valves adjusted, until oil makes its way up the puhrods. I use assembly lube on the rockers and pivot balls as I assemble the valve train to avoid problems in that area. One way to eliminate the converter as a source of the knock is to temporarily unbolt it, and let the engine run without turning the converter, but don't run it very long, as the center hub of the crankshaft will score the converter nose if you let it spin without the converter turning. You can push the converter back into the transmission pump about 1/4" or more, to minimize contact with the crankshaft. The three bolts that attach the converter to the flex plate are the source of the noise if that's the cause of the knock. They have to be really tight to prevent the bolts from rattling in the flywheel holes. Just a few seconds of operation will tell you if the knock is still there, half a minute at most is OK.

On the pre-lube shaft, I have a 1/2" shaft made up with a sleeve over the drive tang to surround the oil pump shaft. It's just about impossible to use a screwdriver blade or something similar to turn the pump, as you've already discovered.

Late ignition timing will cause an engine to heat up in a hurry, so be sure you're in the ballpark on timing, and be sure the cooling system is completely full. It's pretty common to get an air bubble trapped in the cooling system, unless the thermostat is removed during the initial fill-up, and coolant is poured directly into the thermostat hole before installing the thermostat. DON'T remove the radiator cap when the engine is hot, you can get badly burned by the gusher that will create!

I wouldn't reccomend putting the engine under any load at all until you isolate the source of the knock. If you do have bearing damage, loading the bearings will trash the crankshaft in a hurry! Ring seating is not a concern right now, find out why it's knocking first!
Jerry

I will mention this as I trashed a 700r4 when I installed my rebuilt engine in my Blazer when I was in high school. Are you sure that the torque converter was installed properly before you bolted it to the flywheel. If not, you trashed the front pump in your transmission, and it will knock. When I did this, the transmission lasted exactly 100 miles. I was almost hoping that the knock was coming from my engine because I had a balanced and decked 350 on the engine stand, but my dad made me rebuild the 305 that was in the Blazer.

Phil

Good point, Phil!
The slots in the converter hub must mesh with the drive tangs on the transmission pump, or there's no room to bolt up the bellhousing properly. Usually, the vehicle won't move at all, because the drive tangs break off the pump, or the bellhousing cracks due to the stress of forcing the bolts home with no clearance. Once the bellhousing is bolted up solidly, the converter should turn easily, and will have to be pulled forward about 1/4" or so to mate with the flex plate.
Jerry

Well, I got out the stethascope and started listening, first the oil pan, the exhaust system, then the bellhousing. The noise is coming from the bellhousing and not the motor! Thank god for that, now I know that I rebuilt the engine with no problems (so far). When I went to put the transmission in, the torque convertor did fall out and I had to put it back in, it took me a while to get that thing all the way in there, and I am sure its all the way in. But I will undo the bolts tomorow, and turn the thing, and run the engine like you said. Also, I tried moving the truck too, and the thing kicks in when it wants to. Also, the frikin carburetor is leaking to where the linkage is for the electric choke, what else could go wrong. All I did was take it apart, and clean it, then reasemble it.

I am not in a good mood today by the way, I came home and my dog had one of those stupid harnesse's on him, boy I was instantly on fire. I took the darn thing off and put his purple collar back on. I geuss my Mom got it for him cause she says its "Better for him, and safer". I have no doubt in my mind when she gets home and sees it she is going to get on my [censored]. I hate harness's, it makes a dog look stupid, and I dont think its right.

- Shane