The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop stock brakes or update?

guys, my cousin just bought a 52' 3100 and it has been sitting for 30+ years in a garage. are the stock brakes worth rebuilding? the truck has newer 235 with stock 3spd(not running) and i have been telling him to upgrade the brakes at least with a duel master cylinder. after looking at the cost of the stock parts a disc brake upgrade seems reasonable. throw some feedback my way thanks!

I upgraded my '51 to power disks from CPP (which is the place that supplies this conversion just about every vendor) using the same logic you are... the little bit of extra money to do the upgrade compared to the cost of a complete overhaul seemed like a no-brainer. Then reality settled in. Here is the contents of the letter I sent to CPP with no response.

"My mechanic recently completed the installation of your Disk Brake Conversion #4759DBK-6 on my 1951 Chevrolet 1/2 ton pick up. I am writing with a couple suggestions to improve your instruction sheet, and to complain about the problems we encountered with some parts.

I would suggest that you make the following two revisions to your instructions:
1. Indicate the correct position of the offset of the Caliper Mounting Bracket. The instructions make no mention of this and if you guess wrong you have to remove the hub to correct the problem.
2. You should mention that the Steering Link spacers should be removed. There is no mention of this and again, if you do not do this you must remove the hub to correct the problem.

The following is a list of problems we experienced with the parts:
1. The aluminum spacer holes did not align with the hub from the front brakes causing misalignment and runout in the front wheels. A larger hole should be considered.
2. The brake actuator rod on the Power Brake Booster #4754BB is too long. I must be cut and rethreaded to fit.
3. The Master Cylinder bracket is not correct for this vehicle. It hits the cross member and must be modified to mount securely.
4. Both the master cylinder and proportioning valve leaked around the plugs that were already installed.
5. Both rotors were warped and had to be turned. You should suggest to turn the rotor assembly after it is assembled to allow for smooth braking.

I feel that the omissions in the Instructions, although frustrating, do not affect the quality of the conversion. However the defects in the master cylinder, proportioning valve and rotors, as well as the other problems encountered do not speak very highly of the quality of this kit or your quality control standards.

Furthermore these defects added almost $200 to the cost of installation by a 26 year Master ASE Certified Technician with 33 years race car and street rod building experience.

Once installed the braking is dramatically improved but the problems one can expect to encounter would not make your products something that I would recommend. 

Hopefully your customer service will redeem you and therefore your comments are anticipated."

I never received the courtesy of a response. If I had I would post it here.

So yes, you will get dramatically improved braking but this is not a "bolts on in a couple hours" conversion.

One more thing... if you have stock 15-inch wheels they won't clear the calipers and you'll have to buy different wheels. Some 16-inch wheels clear with slight modification. Of the five vendors I considered when buying the $700 kit NOT ONE mentions this in their catalog.

I agree with ghoastrider, unless you are building a daily driver the disks are more trouble than they are worth. Mine IS a daily driver and I feel confident driving it with the disks and recently I had to get on them hard and was glad they were there.

I want to EMPHASIZE that the results are dramatic but the installation is full of pitfalls that CPP fails to either correct or acknowledge.

I'd say they are worth rebuilding, they are Bendix, so parts are more available and a little cheaper than the Huck brakes of a few years earlier.
If he goes with the cheaper front disc option that uses mid size car components, that will give him 5 lug in front. If still running the original rear there will be a mismatched bolt pattern from front to rear.
The six lug front disc kit is upwards of $500 I believe.
In my opinion, the stock brakes would be fine if not driving it at high speeds.

As slow as these old truck go in stock form, properly adjusted stock brakes are more than adequate.

Ghostrider hit the nail on the head. If you're putzing around in a rural situation the stock binders will do very nicely. If you're planning on urban or over-the-road travel you'd better consider the upgrade to at least manual front discs. I tried this route and it left me woefully short on braking potential.

I went with the 5 lug CPP bracket kit, purchased my components seperately from local vendors, and noted that there was much information that wasn't disclosed but became obvious during the install on my 54 truck. Some of them are:

1. Upgrading to discs is going to warrant replacing the entire brake line system; all hard lines and rubber flex lines. The average 50 year old stock stuff just won't handle the increased pressures.

2. The 5 lug on 4-3/4" bracket kit lets you use over-the-counter parts from your local vendors. The 6 lug kit has you using pricey mail-order parts from a distant vendor, especially the ball to roller bearing kit. Would really hate to sit beside the road waiting on a UPS truck to deliver my replacement bearings in 5-7 business days.

3. The 5 lug conversion will allow you to use 15" rims but you will wind up purchasing new rims as a 4" backspacing (which is required for centering and clearance) aren't readily available from most j-yards.

4. If you buy a full kit at $700. you will have close to $1000.00 in the conversion by the time you upgrade the old style tie rod and ends, lines, and M/C mount brackets. This is with you doing all of the install yourself. Same goes for adding power steering.

5. If you have the impression that upgrading is simply a matter of "bolting on" the components and having a working system, you're sadly misinformed. You'd better be ready to make some additional modifications to your particular setup. "Improvise, adapt and Overcome"

The point I'm trying to make is that just like Woody, I found that there is much more to the average "upgrade" than appears on the surface. Before you plunk down your hard-earned cash you'd better "assume" that there will be pitfalls and be ready to address them. Don't count on the vendors to give you anything but the "big picture." If something sounds "easy" you'd better refer to the "bolt" and get the details before you jump into an upgrade.

Dave

Woody,

That is some good info on that kit...it's the 6 lug right?
I've had that 6 lug kit brand new in the box minus the booster and m/c since about 2003. I plan to use it on my next 1/2 ton project. I'm going to print out your write up and put it in the box so I have it when I finally do get to it.

Steve,

Yes, it is the 6-bolt kit.

Ironically I wanted to keep my stock 15-inch wheels which I gathered from the four corners of North America.

Woody

I recently installed the CPP 6 lug application, a pain in the [censored]. I bought the kit from The Truck Shop, which gets it from CPP. i used the uprade roller bearings,which where a little tall for the race.I called truck shop and CPP,emailed pics, and of course they said it was my hub, That they NEVER had a problem with that set of bearings. when you could clearly see the bearings where to tall or the race was to short.I ordered a new set and they fit perfect.I will be in the L.A area this weekeed, And belive my I'm going to rip the a new [censored].other problems i had were the pads had to be sanded downed.Of course a ran into all the other problems from the previous posts.

I'd go over to ChevyTalk.org, CPP has an open forum there & ask this of their rep. Might just do some good where a lot of prospective future customers can see the response.
As for brakes, I like drums w/power boost & a dual chamber M/C.
I use wrecking yard parts & fab my own adapters. Inspect & rebuild as necessary.
Doug

guys this is what i wanted to hear about a "bolt on conversion" it really pisses me off that they don't feel it's necessary to improve their kit. it sounds like their customer service &^$)#s! they really prey on the guy that doesn't do his homework.sounds like i need to hit the chevytalk forum and stir a few things up.

I wrote him a letter and an e-mail, the same one I posted here, and they didn't show me the courtesy of a response. They've had their chance to address these concerns and since they've made a conscious decision not to I will share my experience every time the subject comes up.

The more I research the more I like my stock brakes. I have complete confidence in mine even at highway speeds. IMO those with problems must suffer from steering, adjustment, or other unseen problems.

Once I got my stock brakes rebuilt and adjusted over a period of time, they work just fine. I don't drive this truck like a bracket racer 'tho and I'm not sure disc brakes would give any improvement since I've opted to keep bias ply tires and inner tubes.

If I were tempted at all, I might upgrade to drilled drums to get heat and water out quickly

51-70 Brake Drum - Front/rear - 1/2 Ton - Cross-drilled

And a heavy duty replacement when I'm ready for new shoes

Brake In A Box Brake Shoe Combo Kit

I have found, if you let the vendor know you subscribe to all these truck sites and you will be sharing your anger over their service, they tend to have an attitude change. If not it's because they have the market covered and aren't worried about loosing business. CCP does have a large share of the brake conversion market and that is probably why they don't respond.

I recently rebuilt the brakes on my '54 GMC, I got all 4 wheel cylinders and master cylinder and lined brake shoes new from NAPA with no problem. The brakes work fine, you won't be driving a race car and will not need huge stopping power so the stock system is perfectly good. If you are updating to a V-8 you would probably want to go to discs.

I also put the CPP kit on my 59 1/2 ton. I experienced all the problems listed above. Once overcome the upgrade was UNBELIEVABLE. The kit is not for the inexperienced mechanic, but can be put together by the average backyard mechanic. You can't expect to do the entire job in one day, however. You may also come up with a few new words when installing the bloody kit.

John

I forgot to mention... the drums I had on my 1st 59 were always locking up or pulling differently, and causing me to spin out of control. It was really hard to keep em in adjustment espeacially since they did not have automatic adjusters. You can get automatic adjusters off a later truck to help with that problem. Disc brakes don't need the constant adjustment that drum brakes need, so it is another thing to consider.

I am running stock Huck brakes on my 49 and am happy with them given the driving I do. I try to plan my braking (of course you cannot stop some idiot cutting you off), know where the stop signs are and don't drive more than 40 average.
The downside to Huck brakes besides the cost are the availability of drums. I have considered upgrading the front to Bendix but given my driving habits, have yet to convince myself I need to.
If you have a 52 which has Bendix, I would rebuild them and leave it at that.