The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop my M123 is getting the 903/Quadraplex swapped out !

I was getting ready to tear this big boy down. . .

deside well i'm going to have it apart for painting anyhow so I may as well do the power plant swap now ! so i found a KT-cummins with 635hp fresh rebuild old guy backed out on it, so the shop's willing to deal to get rid of it $7,500cash and my old 903 cummins. . .I found a 7spd OD mack tran's " MikeyPlex " it's going to be a 7spd OD with 3spd OD auxy. . . 21spd with .61:1 final over drive should speed it up with a more even split threw the gear's from granny up to OD. . .Instead of my usual " MikeyPlex " 15spd. . .

ProJect:
So i think I may have some room issues with length so instead of stretching the hood !

What about setting the engine back into the cab ?
reconfiguring the firewall and floor pan ?

I'm going to have to alter the shifting linkages anyway. . .

Mike

What are the new transmissions rated for?
What is the model and manufacturer of the auxiliary transmission?

Unless you don't plan to use it, and even if you just drive around empty, you will need some pretty stout gear boxes to stand up to that much torque.

Grigg

the 7spd hold's up to the 350 and 427 E7 mack's in quad qxle dump truck's. . .
I think it's a T2070 mack 7spd it's the 5spd non OD with a air shift granny and OD. . .
I believe the auxy is a spicer unit. . .

the guy at monroe truck and equipment said they'll hold up fine to KT cummins he did say run heavy oil. . .
I still gotta go give them a looking over. . .
i can get the number's for sure if you would Like. . .

Mike

I don't know all that I should about the bigger transmissions, but listen to this

I have seen and talked to a guy who built a KW with a 12V71 Detroit with twin turbos, about 625 HP. He owns a trucking company, and I trust he is somewhat knowledgeable in truck components and strengths. The transmission he used is a Roadranger RTO14613P, good for 1,400 lb ft of torque.
He was concerned that any less transmission would not hold up.

What is that Mack transmission rated for, I am thinking it is not quite enough.

About the auxiliary transmission. The stoutest one Spicer made was a 1241, a 4 speed twin counter shaft unit good for about 1,200 lb ft of engine torque. Perhaps even that is not enough for your engine?

The largest Roadrangers are good for 1,650 lb ft of torque, available as a 13, 15, or 18 speed.

It may be a good idea to talk to several knowledgeable transmission service guys and even someone at Eaton Fuller for recommendations as to what transmissions will hold up.

I just don't want to see you spend money on transmissions that self destruct. That could be inconvenient to say the least, as there are not many bigger trucks out there, and a tow could be spendy.

Grigg

oh I hear that one. . .

i think this Engine is pushing about 1600TQ@1250rpm. . .
them mack's sit right around 1400-1600TQ low HP high TQ. . .

so i'm prolly OK on the tran's, But the auxy might be pushing it. . .

What i dont want is 20 gear's and NO OVER DRIVE. . .

they used to run the 13spd eaton's behind this engien in KW's from thre 70's. . .

I could have the KT turned down to 450hp ? . . .

mike. . .

The simple answer may be an 18 speed Roadranger RTLO or RTOLF -16718B good for 1,650 lb ft.
Two overdrives, 0.86 and 0.73.

One size smaller is the RTLO/RTLOF-14718B, good for 1,450 lb ft

If you only wanted 13 speeds, but the same two overdrives a 16713B is the last part of the model number.

The difference in the first part of the model numbers, RTLO or RTLOF, the "F" stands for forward shift bar housing, as in shifter closer to engine. Everything under the shift cover is the same transmission...

Might want to talk to a Roadranger salesman before spending money, because I can only guess for you, they have to stand behind the product if they recommend it. Try them direct at 1-800-826-4357

Grigg

Mike:
Send us some pictures of that "big boy".

Mack transmissions are bulletproof; even the 5-spd designed for maxidyne engines will easily stand 1600 ft-lb torque. I'd be concerned about the brownie, too, though, until you find out exactly what you have. I don't think the max. torque figure is achieved at 1250 on a K. It has been a long time, but I'm thinking 1500 or 1600. And they will burn if lugged, so you need to find out about that. A 1600-series 18-speed fuller would be an excellent choice, as would the 16713B, but the 13B I have has a shorter O/D.

.80:1 OR .73:1 ARE FINE WHEN YOU GOT 3.55'S - 5.29'S. . .
I got 10.11 gear's they only offer slower I got " the fast one "

factory set's on the KT truck engine:
stage 1 450hp 1400tq. . .

stage 2 525hp 1500tq. . .

stage 3 600hp 1650tq. . .

stock driveline:

quadraplex no OD 42mph@2250rpm 903 785cid v-8 cummins non turbo 300hp. . . 42mph@2250rpm 14.00-24, 22 ply tires. . .

Wanted drive line:
KT-635hp manual tran's final OD .58:1 .62:1. . .7spd 9spd 10spd 13spd 15spd 18spd 21spd.
I'll shift as many times as it takes.
truck's a show and shiner RED CAMO! coming soon.

I was told the 5 spd would be ok, i would have to split every gear thats 15 gear's up 15 gear's down. . .with the 7 spd i could use the 3spd as i needed it but go easy on the throttle I'm not going need low split every. . .direct split and high split is all need 2 stick 14spd.

I know you can lug a mack all day long lug a cummins you'll blow a head gasket fill your crank case with coolant in a flash. . .

I was told the 7spd Mack would with stand anything the KT could throw at it. . .I need a .58:1 -.62:1 OD to make it worth doing. . . OD's reduce power it ain't a torque multipler it's a divider. . . I was the OD in 7spd should dog the torque enough for the 3spd auxy. . .

I got a hell of a deal on the KT so i jumped on it I just hope now i can use it. . .

Mike

P.S. hit the search type " view the beast " posted in greasy spoon pops right up

You are right about the OD in the first box reducing the torque to the second. The problem is Spicer designed the auxiliary to handle the engine torque X front trans first gear ratio, worst case scenario.
A 1241 is rated for 1,200 lbft of engine torque, I can't find what the ultimate torque is, or what the front transmission low gear ratio they had in mind is.
For some of the 8000 series Spicer auxiliaries I do have the recommended ultimate torque, I'll keep looking for the 1241 rating.

Another Roadranger idea:
RTOO/RTOOF-14613 not available new, but has three overdrive gears and is good for 1,400 lbft. 11th gear is 0.85, then 12th is 0.73, and 13th is 0.62.

Grigg

1,750 lbft, that's more torque than we were expecting...
The thing to do now is call the manufacturers of the transmissions you are interested in and see if they will stand behind it in your application.

I can't tell you what you need, I can only guess at the options. In the end it's your money and you need to be satisfied with the results.
What you are trying to do is a stretch for the capabilities of a manual transmission, it may not be easy or cheep to find a long lasting solution.

Grigg

the thing is truck has been in active duty for 38 year's. . . only has 7,900 miles on it. . . the chance of me putting another 8,000 miles on it in my life time very slim. . . so even if the tranny held up for 12,000 miles that's more than plenty. . . a .62:1 OD is all i want. . .

I'll have it rebuilt if the is any heavy duty up grades i'll do them other wise a rebuild and running top notch heavy duty 80w-140 weight gear oil should by me more than enought time i would say. . .


if it'll run 58-62mph it may get more miles but if 45mph is about it than it'll only go to the badger steam and gas show whitch is a 40 mile round trip once a year. . .about 40 miles a year. . . that's 100 year's if it lasts 4,000 miles. . .

truck ain't going to haul anything. . . I'll be the only driver so i'll be running it very easy. . .


Mike

Another Roadranger idea:
RTOO/RTOOF-14613 not available new, but has three overdrive gears and is good for 1,400 lbft. 11th gear is 0.85, then 12th is 0.73, and 13th is 0.62.

Grigg

if it's " RATED!" to 1400 it'll hold 1800 I'm sure it's a bit under rated for 750,000 mile life span. . .

RTOO/RTOOF-14613 << sound's like the tran's for me it a manual ?
I'll do some digging on it and see what I can really push it too

not sure what the army 5spd OD mack is rated for but i'm pushing about 1475ftlb to it. . .when i added the turbo to the old 711END it went form a 180hp 860tq doggy engine to a 315hp 1475tq snorting beast, putting boost to a non turbo diesel compression ratio and cranking up the fuel, shot the torque moon . . .by spinning an OD into an OD i got it to run 72mph@2,000rpm in stead of 58mph@2250rpm. .. . gained 14mph lost 250rpm. . .

Mike. . .

If that's want you want then you choose either model RTOO-14613, or RTOOF-14613, two similar transmissions differing only by the location of the shift tower.

well I think it would be best No split shifting
.62:1 OD !
I'm prolly going to need the one thats closest to the engine as i'm going to push the engine back instead of stretching the front of the truck if need be. . .

Mike

RTOO-14613, or RTOOF-14613< these are the 2 I need look at ? both 13spd's ? with .62:1 OD's ?

Mike

True, same thing but the "F" designates the foreward shift bar housing (top cover).
Both transmissions have the 3 overdrive ratios I listed earlier (all in the same transmission) and 0.62 is high gear.

If you find the one without the "F" then the cover and shift forks from a few different models may be able to be subtituted to make your trransmission an "F", if that's what you want...
You can find lots of roadranger literanture, manuals, and parts catalogs on the Roadranger web site. I printed out the manuals and parts catalogs for the different ones I have, very helpfull.
Grigg

I had already wanted to go with the 13spd road ranger in the first place just wasn't sure what the final OD ratio was. . .

But I got told i should keep the truck a 2 sticker for appearence but heck i'm changing color, adding dual stainless stack's and dual stainless air cleaner's. . . why not just keep going i gotta build it i gotta pay for it and i gotta drive it so i'm going to build it for me i think. . .

I do thank you for your in put on this swap. . . I canceled the mack 7spd and the 3 spd auxy. . .

I wasn't sure what the models where but the owner and lead tech at the local big rig shop said he would Rebuild the tran's for me he seemed confident enough to stand behind road ranger 13spd with this engine he did say most of the KT-Cummins has seen have been mated to the 15spd,and 18spd manual's or the 9spd auto. . .

Mike

Then why is it on eBay?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160183725542

Where is the red camo? I dont see your mini-van in the picture listed on your fleet signature...

file photo skippy they have more than one chexck out the web sit you'll see 2 listed on sold one for sale. . .

Mike

Then maybe you can explain this message on another board dated Nov 24th:

I would like to get the 10 ton tractor. . . what all do i need to know about this fine beast?

I would like to swap out the 903 V-8 Cummins known to fail for the KT-Cummins known for relaibility and lengendary power. . . .

than swap out the 2 stick trans for the road ranger 13spd OD tran's. . .

run dual stainless stack's up the side of the cab, than run dual stainless air cleaner's on each fender like the old KW's . . .

you know update it a bit than dress it up it's going to get noticed anyhow !

the plan:

DRIVELINE:
KT-635 Cummins diesel ,13spd road ranger .62:1 final OD.

PAINT:

Red Camo: paint job for the body.

Red : drive shaft's,diff's ect. . .

Black: chassie,and axles. . .

black soft top with red stitching. . .

Dual 6 inch stainless stack's. . .

Dual stainless air cleaners. . .

Have Rim's chrome dipped or Painted RED. . .

INTERIOR:

use black as the main color and detail it with red and crome trim and detailing. . .

Black seat's red stitching . . .


Mike

For those in doubt here is the original thread:
http://steelsoldiers.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=16482

IT MEANS JUST WHAT IS SAYS YO !

So, let us get this straight. This thread started on 11/19 says you own it, but on another forum as of 11/24 you didn't own it yet, and what is so amazing is that it has the same mileage as the one you "don't own" on eBay.

Maybe your calendar has the days listed in a different order.

Maybe you could clarify without yelling.

When i'm done I'll just post some more current photo's, of the power plant swap the new paint job you can see before after and during. . . and it'll all make more sence to ya !

but please do go to OSHKOSHEQUPIMENT.com you'll see 2 units the same , 1 standard army tires 2 labled sold one still for sale. . .
than you can check out mephisequipment.com they have the 903's. . .
than clarktrucks.com have the I-6 cummins in there 10ton. . .
whitch i'll be posting on the stealsoldgers site so you yahoo's can see that the 03 was installed with a quadraplex into the M123's. .

nothing else to tell yea man. . .

Mike. . .

Hell I'll even get you guy's some photo's of my dad's fleet of army truck's. . .

Mike !

Per Jeff @ Oshkosh: http://www.oshkoshequipment.com/details.cfm?ProductID=77&pid=2&cat=4

Is still available. The other truck that sold on their site has NDT's. The picture you posted on this stovebolt:http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2516140080102070401ztxsaI

Is the exact same truck. You never explained away the calendar.

No disrespect to your dad but this another quote from you:

My dad has a land scaping & excavating company he has built many army truck's, he has a fleet of 5 truck's that he updated and won't get rid of. . .

Army Fleet:
1-10 ton with a KT-600 Cummins, 18spd DOD twinstick, and 16.00R24 28ply tires 45mph.

2-5ton M818's 315hp mack engine's,7spd OD mack trans, and 12R24.5 16ply tires dualed 68mph.

2-2.5 ton M35's 8.3L cummins diesel's,6spd OD,and 11.00R20 16ply tires . 66mph.

The 2.5t's are maxed at 68mph the 5T's could be ran out 70-72mph but he goverened them down. . . the 5T's are ste at 68mph the 2.5T's are set at 66mph. . .all 5 trucks have 10 tires Non of them are super singled. . .

If i hadn't had a falling out with him I would have went to him with this swap as he has done one simliar to it. . .

what the heck difference dose the tires make for a picture i like the SAT's better than the standard tread's. . .

So i used the other photo ? and i care ? whoopy do the tires are different. . . so forgot the milage and mixed [censored] up i was trying to get this truck but i could only afford the other. . . to many things going on at once. . . I'm so sorry i made a mistake about some trivial details that really mean a thing. . .s would it make difference if i said it 2,212,000miles i could have easly mixed it up with my MACK's milage so relax dude. ..

So that you reposted what i had said about my Dad's truck's because why ? you didn't make any point with it ? just reposted it. . . me and him had a falling out year's ago. . . and so ?

I just started this project ? would you like to see some photo's with my smiling face with this fine M123 truck ? should i take photo's of Me with every vehicle on my sig ?
will that put your mind at eaz ?

BESIDES 98% CHANCE I'M GOING TO BUY THE SECOND TRUCK AS WELL ! ! ! whats beeter than an updated m123 ? having 2 updated M123's. . .

Mike

When you make obvious mistakes like this, especially when time lines are not in sequence, your credibility goes down the tubes and people will have a hard time believing you, and consequently not trust you.

So rather than thump your chest and drag your knuckles on the ground, come clean and be honest, and people won't feel like they are wasting their time with you and then the inverse will also be true.

Finally, the item with regard to your dad was only indicating your relationship with him as being strained. I wouldn't want you to strain it further in order salvage your ego.

Mr. Sloppy,
What's the idea here? You are the new guy, and all you do is pick on people. It looks as if you joined the forum just to track someone down and beat on them.

If you don't have any input or questions on old trucks please go away, we don't need you here to pick fights.

Grigg

I am not going to allow this to go any further. I will not put up with the personal attacks or public defenses of any member.
This is not why we are here. This topic is closed.