The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop I'm back--now No Oil!

Hey all, I last posted back in february about trying to get my truck to fire. Because the winter lasted so long I couldn't work on it for a long time. Anyway.......I did get it to fire, turns out the distributer had been reinstalled wrong (it wasn't me honestly!- I didn't even know he had taken it out!.) I was advised to check the compression so I did and there was little to none on #6. Had a mechanic look it over and he ended up replacing 2 push rods and rocker arm assembly. Yeesh way to much money but thought, well at least it will run! Wait not so fast get a "we've got a problem" call from him and thats when he told me it's not getting any oil, not even when turning the pump with a screw driver.
What should I do next. Is it likely the engine needs to be pulled? Can you talk me through trouble shooting or diagnosing the source of the problem. I don't want to keep throwing money at it if it would be better to start looking for a replacement.
I know this is kinda long, sorry about that, but I just had to ramble a little. I do that when I really don't know the the heck I'm talking about.

Does the oil pressure gauge work? Does it show any pressure with the engine running?

It takes a long time, like minutes, before any oil starts coming out of the rocker assembly. When he turned it with a screwdriver, was it by hand or in a electric drill? If by hand he just didn't turn it enough.

If you have oil pressure at the gauge but not up at the rocker assembly he may have reinstalled it wrong.

If there is oil preasure and no oil to the rocker assembly, could be the oil passage up to the rockers is plugged with crud. (Not unusual.) On a 216, its just a 3/16 tube, so easy to clog. On the 235 the passage is through the head. The shop manual has a picture.

Also, did the mechanic clean out the rocker shafts when he replaced the two arms? Those shafts also clog up. (So does the part between the shafts.)

Michelle, don't worry about writting a bunch. It's accuracy that will count. I have just been perusing your old posts and have finally deciphered what possibly happened to your engine.
When you started the engine (after it sat for fifteen years) there were clogged oil lines and it finally bent those push rods. A "Shade Tree Mechanic" fix is to try to clean what lines you can and try to run it- I personally would advise against this (but who am I?). You could probably find a running engine fairly cheap to put in it just to have the truck up and running. There is one on E-bay right now that is cheap- engine
I don't know if it is close enough for you and I would think that someone around you has one cheap. Check out some "rod shops" they usually have tons of them. While you could (if all this truck is for is a yard runner) try to clean out the oil lines leading to the rocker and then run the engine with a good bit of deisel in the oil for only a little bit to clean some of the gunk out of the entire line, but I personally wouldn't trust this very far. Once you start dislodging the gunk it could plug up many other places. It all depends on what you are wanting this truck to do for you. I realize that you have money and parts into this engine, but many of those parts will work also on another engine and it doesn't hurt to have spares.-LOL You just need to think on what you want of this truck. Keep us posted on what is going on for you.

The mechanic did use a drill when he checked the oil pump. My manual is for a 49 and the engine is a 54, so I can't really compare how they are oiled, I can see there is a difference because on mine the oil connecter comes up from the head circles under and around to the top of the shaft, is held in place by a bead of solder(?) and then the line appears pinched off. This looks different from the engine in the manual.

I had hoped that I would have a truck that ran at least roughly, while I learned everything I could about how it runs, stops, steers etc. But I also want to keep this truck for a long time, not to show but to drive and have fun with and I knew at some point I wanted a freshly rebuilt engine, I guess I was just hoping it wouldn't have to be now. At this point I don't have a clue about where the reputable places are to do that around here.

As far as the engine on ebay, Columbus isn't really to far to drive. If that would be a good way to go.

I still need more guidance guys. Repair, rebuild, replace?

More thanks--Michelle

Ev1 has been right on so far Michelle and if you get to the point of last resort with the engine you have leave the oil in it add about 1 quart of kerosene to the engine run the engine for about 5 min at normal idle. Possibly over the years PO had used detergent and non detergent oils in the motor. As long as you have plenty of oil in the engine the engine shouldnt seize within the 5 min run period. Then drain your oil clean the oil bath out real good and try again. If it improves try the same sequence one more time it sounds like you just have sludge build up blocking the passages. hope this helps some.

Alan

Sorry, but I don't think running kerosene is going to help if the oil passage through the head or rocker shafts are plugged up! :mad:

The 49 manual Michelle using will be showing a 49 engine. She obviously has a 235 engine and will need a different manual. (a 58 - 62 manual will show the correct oil passage.) Most likely, the passage besides the head bolt is clogged.

A bypass line can be added. Here are the instructions from a kit I found on eBay - http://personal.bellsouth.net/~fredrij/RockerOilerInstruct.jpg

I Vintage Auto http://www.vapinc.com/ carries these kits too (See Accessory Rocker Arm Oil Line Kit under Chevrolet - Rocker Arms & Shafts.) These will bypass the clogged passage that was a common problem on the 235.

The rocker assembly should also probably be removed and cleaned out and checked for wear (if its been running without oil for a while).

I lost oil on the rockers of mine too. There is a new weed eater line out that has piano wire molded into it, makes a perfect cleaner using a strong carb cleaner to break up the sludge, worked it all the way through and oils fine now.
This was done with the tube REMOVED from the motor.
Unfortunately I run mine too long and still have other noises to figure out
Brad

yeah, dont use kerosene. If it does clean the passages, it will eat the rubber seals in the engine. So, you trade one good thing for a bad one. My uncle used this trick, and it cleared up his clogged pipes, but the rear crank seal started leaking pretty good. He had to have all new seals and gaskets put in the engine. I found that if you substitute a quart of Automatic Transmission Fluid for a quart of regular oil, when you do an oil change, it cleans the engine more passivley, compared to the harshness of kerosene, and it seems to work well.

The '54 is a good year engine to have. On mine after I got it back from a rebuild I had no oil to the lifters. The '54 has a tube inside the lifter cover that runs from the rear cam bearing to the middle of the block and then through the head. Mine was pluged solid. I replaced it and also un-pluuged the fittings where it connected. This all assumes that your just lacking oil to the lifters, not the entire engine. Have you any oil pressure on the gage when spinning with a drill. If not are you sure the gage works?

I would not even start an engine that is not showing oil pressure, until I figured out why. This is not a splash oiler and you will not get oil to rod or main bearings if in fact there is no oil pressure.

54 235 does not have a "splash oiling system"

Thanks for the input guys. Right now I am waiting for a correct shop manual. I need to see how the oil lines are run. The mechanic who worked on it gave me the impression that to manually unclog the lines the engine would have to be pulled, is this the case? I do want a new oil pressure gauge, not sure if mine was working or not before and I haven't tried running it since I got the truck back, so I'll get that soon.

I am also considering the options of buying an engine that's already been rebuilt, though it seems nobody wants to ship an engine so it would have to be relatively close which limits the possibilities. And am asking around about mechanics and shops around here that have worked on old iron (going to another car show this weekend.)

So I still haven't decided on repair, rebuild, or replace, but I'm not giving up. I am so glad this site is here!!!!!

Before you decide to remove or replace the engine, try to get oil to the rockers. There are several things you can try before removing the engine.

Remove the side (pushrod) cover on the passanger's side of the engine. Its held on with 10 7/16" bolts or flat-head screws. You will have to remove the distributor and ignition coil to get the cover off.

The metal oil line we're talking about will be right there under the cover. Carefully remove the line from the block fittings. Wipe the oil line off, and try to blow air through the line to see if its plugged. Let the line soak in a bucket of paint thinner or parts cleaner.

Now, while the line is soaking, you can drive the oil pump with a drill and see if oil squirts out the lower fitting. The oil pump on these engines is driven by the bottom of the distributor shaft. The camshaft turns the distributor shaft, and the distributor then turns the oil pump.

Remove distributor (if you haven't already), and insert a screwdriver shank or oil pump prime tool into the distributor hole. Run the pump clockwise for a minute or two. Oil should squirt out of the lower fitting that connects to the line you removed. If you get sprayed with oil, the bottom of the engine is OK. You know the problem is either in the line you took off, or the passage in the cylinder head. If you don't get any oil, then the problem is in the bottom-end of the engine.

Blow compressed air into the upper oil fitting on the block. If the air comes out the feedtube in the center of the rocker assembly, the head passage is not blocked with crud.

If no air passes through, you'll have to remove the rocker assembly and blow out the head passage with compressed air. Dig the gunk out with a straightened paperclip and some carb cleaner. Then reassemble rockers & oil line. Run pump again, and oil should flow to the rockers.

Sorry for the novel, but this will help you figure out what the problem is. In case you haven't guessed yet, owning one of these trucks is very labor-intensive. You've got to have a decent set of tools, and the desire to get really greasy. Very often. The reason this BB is here is because the owners (us) have to work on these trucks ourselves. Most of us can't afford to bring our truck to the shop every time the engine blows up or a wheel falls off. (Hey guys, she thinks I'm joking)

Good luck!
chip

I'm not understandining if you lack oil to the lifters or the entire engine. I would ask your mechanic to disconect the fitting in the block that goes to your oil pressure gage, spin the pump with a drill and see if anything comes out. If not, I'd say you have problems that would at least require droping the oil pan.

If the problem is only that your lifters are not getting oil pull off the side cover (lifter cover)and you will see a steel brake line type tube that runs from your rear cam bearing to the middle of the block. From there oil goes through the head up to the rocker assy. I would disconnect the tube at the cam bearing and run a wire into the fitting to clean out, and try the pump again. You may find the tube is plugged. Mine was so bad that I just replaced it.

Ok, am I overlooking something here? With the valve cover off I see no oil line, there are those threaded plugs with the square tops, one in the bottom left corner, one in the center. Also it looks to me like nothing could come out of the feedtube in the center of the rocker assembly, the end of it looks pinched off. ???

It is supposed to look like that. The rocker tubes are hollow and the oil is going in there and coming out of the rocker arms through holes.

When you take the rocker arms off it should make more sense. But, first look at the oil line under the side cover as suggested above.

Tony, I have the cover off on the passenger side that covers the pushrods, this is where I looked for the oil line and only see the square headed plugs. Am I looking in the wrong place?

You are looking at the right place.

Somebody has screwed in pipe plugs where the oil line goes. This was a shade-tree mechanic fix on some '53-'54 235 engines. When the metal line plugged up from sludge, some owners would remove the stock line and screw in 1/8" pipe plugs in the block fittings. Then they would route a copper line from the oil pressure port on the driver's side of the engine where the stock oil pressure gauge was hooked up. This copper line goes around the engine, to a fitting on the passanger's side of the head. This carries oil to the rockers when the stock line inside the pushrod cover was plugged and removed.

If this has been done, you should see an external line, about 1/4" inch in diameter, attached to the passanger's side of the head between the #3 and #4 sparkplugs. If you find a 1/8" pipe plug there, then the shadetree fix was not done, and there is NO way for oil to get to your rockers if the motor is a '54.

Another possibility: Are you sure this motor is a '54? The pinched-off feedpipe was used on the '58-'62 engines. (It could have been swapped years ago, tho) These engines also did not have the internal oil line, as Chevy re-designed a block passage to eliminate that internal oil line, and allow hydraulic lifters to be used in all 58-62 235s.

Post the block date code, which is cast into the block above the starter. You will see 'CON4' above the starter. Look just to the right of the CON4, and there is the date code. Also, how big is your water pump pulley? The 4" diameter pulley is a '53-'54 engine. A 6" or 7" diameter pulley is a '55-'62 engine.

The bottom generator mount bolts to the oil pan rail on a '54. The gen mount on a '55-62 is about an inch above the oil pan rail on the block.

Post the block codes, the size of the water pump pulley, and location of lower generator mount to determine year.

Look for an external oil line to see if the shade-tree fix has been done.

Happy hunting, Chip

Looks like it is a 54, the casting # in the head is 3835913, by the starter it is B 254 water pump pulley looks to be about 4" in diameter, couldn't get a good angle on the gen bracket but I think it was attached near the oil pan ledge. The only external lines I see are the ones that go to and from the external oil filter. There is another plug going to the center of the head, it still has a piece of line sticking out of it that was cut and folded over.

I bought the truck from the wife of the previous owner, who has died. He brought it up here from TN (actually this one and a GMC) put them in his barn and never did anything to them. So, I have no one to ask any history questions.

You just figured out why you have no oil to the head. Both ways for it to get there has been blocked. Repairing the folded over external line might be the easiest thing to try first.

Bingo!

Now you can either re-do the shadetree fix with copper line and fittings from NAPA or replace the stock line. Patrick's in Arizona, Tom Langdon at Stovebolt Engine Co, or National Chevy Assoc may have the stock line and block fittings.

Also, check on the driver's side of the block to see what they did to the oil lines. They may have disconnected the gauge and the shadetree fix when the oil filter was added. Oil filters were an option on a '54 235.

How much crud is stuck to the underside of the valve and pushrod covers? If not much, you can use 10w30 detergent motor oil. I would suggest changing the oil and filter if you haven't already.

Keep us posted
chip

I don't know if I'd call the external oil line a 'shadetree' fix. It was pretty common. I posted this earlier, but looks like nobody read it:

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A bypass line can be added. Here are the instructions from a kit I found on eBay - http://personal.bellsouth.net/~fredrij/RockerOilerInstruct.jpg

Vintage Auto http://www.vapinc.com/ carries these kits too (See Accessory Rocker Arm Oil Line Kit under Chevrolet - Rocker Arms & Shafts.) These will bypass the clogged passage that was a common problem on the 235.

I have an NOS kit and have one installed on my 235. Its a 3/16 copper tube. McMaster sells 3/16 tube http://www.mcmaster.com - Home Depot and Lowes don't carry it.

This will fix the oil problem, just as well as restoring to factory...

Thanks guys for all of your help. I checked out the oil pump like you suggested it worked fine and I just got off the phone with Langdon's Stovebolt, Very helpful! ordered the internal line and fittings, they should be here soon. Just wanted to say thanks and let you know how things were going. Michelle