The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Dropped off engine today

Hey guys,

Figured it was time to give the update on my saga. I pulled the engine this weekend. Brought the shortblock to the machine shop with the old oil pump and both distruibutors I tried to use. I explained all I had done, and the shop manager was polite and professional, but slightly dismissive: "We'll figure it out, its likely something simple." They think I did some stupid rookie mistake. Maybe I did, who knows....

They're gonna check it out for me. If the cam bearings need replacement, are they gonna have to pull the motor down to the bare block? Can cam bearings be changed with the crank/rods/pistons still installed? Should I have them zero-deck the block if they have to pull it apart?

thanks

Chip :rolleyes: :confused:

I'm almost sure you don't have to disassemble the rods, crank and pistons to install new cam bearings. Although you never know what the machinist might accidinetly find while its all apart. Chip not only myself and the majority of the other Bolters were glad to see you going back in with the ol' six cyl.. Good Luck..

If you do have them deck the block, make sure they use a milling machine and not a belt sanding table with bags of weights on the block

Hahaha... Any known P to V clearance issues when zero decking a 235 with a shaved '54 head and M4F cam?

Can I use a rope seal in a '60 235, or do I have to use the neoprene seal?

I'll also post what the shop says caused the oil pump problems.

thanks

chip

I think a neoprene seal is the one to use in a 60 235.

Chip, a zero deck block with a M4F cam will have should have .060-.080 valve clearance at TDC on overlap, both valves open.060 is on the close side, ok if you don't rev the engine too high, my 261 runs .080, no problems with a compressed head gasket thickness of .038.The M4F has a small overlap, makes valve to piston clearance less of a problem than some other grinds.If your head has been milled ,you may have a problem, you or the machinist must check the clearance, don't shine it on thinking it'll be fine.Check the clearance before decking or milling,resist sinking the intake valve , it kills more power than the slight raise in compression gives ya.Not going to put a 421 SD in than Chevy, huh?

Well, just talked to the machine shop. The hanging chads are in and the votes are counted:

Machinist puts the blame squarely on the HEI.

Says I need to run the stock dist with a petronix conversion and a Moroso SBC hardened washer between pump and dist gear. He's checking the bearings now and gonna try to round up all the parts I need.

hmmmmm...

Now if THIS build tears up, this car is getting either a 400 long-rod motor or a new owner. :rolleyes:

chiphead what build number are you on now? i hope my yet-to-be-installed 292 doesn't have the same fate!

Chip,back to the thrust washer?Why is your engine the only one that needs the washer?I asked some guys who worked on 235's back when, no one could remember a washer or a problem because of the lack of the washer.How's many here with 235's have that washer? Please, all Stovebolters ,pull that distributer now, look down into the hole of horrors, is there a thrust washer?Did it just fall into the oil pan when you pulled the dist?

Listen. Have them do it. Have them guarantee it. Run it hard. If it breaks. Kill them dead.

Or something like that.

I have the mallory elect no point dist in my 235, knock on wood, it has been in over7 yrs with no problem, is this a similar dist to chips? thanks...Fred

They're checking the bearings now & are gonna call me. I don't know if I should ask about a warranty or not.

Ftyler- I lost count at 6.

Chip: Yes ask for a warranty, most reputable shops will give one. popcorn The Truth is Out There (Dad says don't give up)

Chip

I'm runnin an HEI in the car(sedan delivery) I have
My motor has no problem so far but I use a different machine shop....GO GET EM!
Yes I have a Chevys but I don't do anything
HEAVY with em
Cal has a law that people can't ride in the backa' your truck....

Just talked to machine shop-

Bearings are trashed, cylinder wear is abnormal from improper boring/honing, and the cost to repair is going to be larger than the GDP of Cuba.

*Sings* Nobody knows the trouble I've seen......

MAKE IT STOP KILL ME NOW REDRUM REDRUM.. :o :mad: :confused: :rolleyes:

Chiphead: Maybe it is time!!!! Cut the cost and run Forrest run. popcorn The Truth is Out There (Don't count your money until the dealings done)

Like popcorn said, you may want to cut your losses.

I found a 1954 235 engine(carb,coil,generator,distributor and starter) from a 3100 w/ trans and rear end for $300. The guy is a friend of my Father-in law so we trust him. He builds hot rods for people.

The main bearings in my 216 look like there have been some metal eating worms in them. It was time for a new engine anyway. The bearing kit would have cost me around $150.

Wait, who did the boring/honing? Is there a cause yet?

What? How can they determine it was a boring/honing problem?

Sounds to me like you might have metal flakes all through that engine. That seems pretty fast to get abnormal cylinder wear.

What exactly do they want to replace? Bearings and rings? Camshaft? I'm guessing your crank and rods survived this. Are the pistons okay? Or do they want to replace them too?

Chip, its only money - just think of all the people you are helping put food on the table for by persevering with this engine. Don't let the naysayers talk you outta fixing it. Get a spine and ride that baby all the way down! Think of it as your 401k for the last 24 months . . . ride baby ride :p

Seriously Chiphead,

Take some time away from this project and let the car sit. Get a written estimate from the machine shop and take the engine back home. Take 3-6 months away from this project and start working on something else.

Your perserverance has been an inspiration to me, albeit very pricey inspiration. My personal advice? Give up this engine, cut your losses and move on to the least expensive means to get your vehicle back on the road. At least for the short term. You've taken a beating with this engine and the least you deserve is to ride!

If my 292 bears the slightest resemblance as it's going to give me the trouble your 235 has given you it's going in the trash. Literally!

Keep your head up and God bless!
-ftyler

Does anyone have a good 235 end table for sale?

I don't know how to explain it, the cylinders have "drag marks" about 1" wide on either side of the cyl wall. The machine shop says it due to the bored diameter and cylinder finish that was put on the cylinder. Basically the cylinder was bored and rough (coarse) honed to force the rings to seat. The 1950s way of doing things that wears a set of rings out after 50K miles.

If the bore dia isn't too large, this shop can power hone the cylinders to the right diameter, put the correct finish on the cylinder walls and fit new rings.

If I'm lucky, the engine will only need rings, bearings and a gasket set. The shop is working me an estimate of them doing all the tear down and reassembly work. The shop guy also said he'd let me tear down the engine at the shop so I wouldn't have to pay him to do it.

In the meantime I'm working on my other project car, a '67 Lemans hotrod. Its really rough, but the late-'60s Pontiac 350 has provided some much needed "Tiresmoke Therapy" during this latest 235 debacle.

Now if I can only keep it running long enough to fix the Chevy....

Chip

What exactly was wrong with it?

I would guess the drag marks on the cylinder walls are caused by there being no lubrication. Otherwise I can't see just the rings doing that damage?

Remember this engine ran perfectly before the oil pressure dropped. I doubt it would be running so good if the assembly and machine work was so bad.

Wasn't all this caused by an oil pump failure?

Oil loss is a possability, but it only ran less than a minute after the oil pressure zeroed out.
As long as pistons aren't scored or cylinder bore isn't too big/scored I'll be OK. This machinist specifically mentioned piston to bore clearance and honing stone grit # as the cause of the abnormal cyl wear.

Machinist says the shaft diameter plays a factor in dist operation. Since the HEI has a smaller dist shaft than the stock .490", it allows the dist shaft to wobble in the oil pump hole. He also said the HEI housing is slightly too small for the block hole, adding to wobble. He said the hardened thrust washer is needed as extra insurance against hardened gear/soft pump casting interferance.

More news as events warrant.

Okay. That explains the wobble you saw.

Good luck with that rascal. I don't think I have your level of patience....