The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 54-3600 S420 stuck in gear...

Hello all Stovebolt Fans...Well last night the old girl gave me a new project...when we returned from our Sunday drive and pulled into the garage I needed to drop into low gear to get up the hill, when I got in the garage, I put the clutch in to SPOP as normal, BUT she just kept on rolling?. Quickly hit the key off to kill the engine, but not until I had damaged my workbenck with the front bumper...

Now I can't get it OUT of first gear. The cluch linkage is good, checked that, and I can see the pressure plate moving in and out?

Ideas? No noises...no rattles...clutch put in recently (less than 300 miles ago)

S420 tranny...

ALL help or comments appreciated!!!1

Thanks again...without this site, my wife's truck would still be a pipedream..

Jim

I bet it's the clutch. Something came apart.

If the truck is still pushed up against something, it may be applying too much pressure against the gears to let loose. I would see if you can free up the truck, so you can roll it back and forth a little, and then try shifting. - Scott

Well that's what i thought too...I couldn't get it backed away from the bench, so I jacked up the rear and pushed it back as much as I could (big truck...), but I managed to clear about a foot...no good? I can't get the gearshift to free up, and clutch pedal appears to have no effect...

Anything else...I really don't feel like pullin' the tranny unless I HAVE to...plus it is really not in a good location to do it...

Jim

Did you try shifting while the rear wheels were in the air and the brake off? If it wouldn't move then, you're at least going to have to pop the top of the gearbox to do some inspection. You can always unhook the driveshaft so you can push the truck around. hopefully it is a completely enclosed shaft.

Yes, the nice thing about the 420 is that you can take the whole shifter and top plate off without even needing to drain the oil. Take the floor plate out of the cab, remove all the bolts around the perimeter of the top plate, and take it out. The shifter forks and mechanism come off with the plate, and you can try to move the gears by hand in the tranny. The big sliding straight cut gear is 1st/n/second, and the little lever on the right side is for the reverse idler. The other sliding clutch is for 3rd/n/4th. You should be able to click everything into neutral by hand and see if the clutch is actually working or not. If it was winter I would say that you got water in there and it froze up but that's not the case. Do look for water, though, it's a pretty common problem.

My guess is that your throwout bearing is hanging on the splines for some reason. This has happen to me twice in deep dust in Nevada, although with modern **** pickups, washed it out with a garden hose for temporary relief. Another thought is a linkage failure. Check for broken pivot brackets or other linkage snafus. You may not be fully disengaging even though you see stuff moving.

Thirdly, are you sure you didn't just want to see what you could do with that 7.02:1 granny?

7.02 granny...LOL...yeah...I have to shift even before I get through an intersection...

Well last night I got the rears wheels up in the air, and I was able to get it out of gear, now at least i can start the truck, but now I can't get it to go back. The clutch seems to be inactive?

Funny though it was running fine when I parked it? I did drop the lower cover, and there was no debris in it, so I am thinking that at least the clutch didn't break up?

BUT even so...it looks as though I will need to pull the tranny? Anything else anyone can think of...I did read something about a clutch retracting spring inside the housing, but that just sounds too darn easy...

Thanks again...maybe it's time to put in a T5...

Jim

It's time to pull the tranny and inspect the clutch. Tranny weighs about 200 lb, but you can leave it under the truck if you wish.

Well thanks for being the bearer of BAD news...but that is what I thought anyway...

You say I can leave it under the truck...not IN the truck...I will NEED to pull the tranny out? Right?

I was told before that it normally comes out through the cab...can I get it out underneath?

Plus...any special tools y'all can think of to R & R the clutch?

Jim

do you think the pilot bushing might be seized to the tranny input shaft?

Ken - Now THERE's a novel idea.

Do you think that bearing seized up would hang on that tight? I'd think it would snap or break at that point, but thinking about it some I'm not sure where it would break to.

Interesting idea

The only reason I mention it is that my '49 was always hard to shift into first once it had warmed up. After a few months of fighting it and it getting worse and worse I pulled the tranny and found that the pilot bushing was full of old gummy grease and some galling of the bearing indicated that it had siezed and then let loose a couple of times.

The easy way to pull the tranny is to use an engine hoist through the floor of the cab. The other way is to do it the normal way underneath. Either way, you need to remove the transmission crossmember. Whatever you do, use tools to move the tranny around, it's heavy enough to give you a hernia or worse.

Remove the hump plate, then you can disconnect the driveshaft and unbolt the tranny. I support it with a floor jack. The tranny will move back enough to work on the clutch, depending on what truck you have. It is best with two people, and once you have the tranny moved back far enough you can stabilize it with a 2x4 across the floor opening and a piece of chain or heavy rope. Turn it sideways on the jack if you need more clearance.

If you need the tranny out from under the truck there are two options. Easiest is an engine hoist in the passenger door with the seat cushion out. To take it out underneath you can remove the shift lever and take it out on the floor jack.

I would highly recommend renting a tranny jack.

Thanks for all the tips! I got the new clutch and pressure plate, t/o bearing and all...gonna tackle it tomorrow. A friend is helping me, he says he has done these "in 45 minutes with hand tools...on the side of the road"...I will believe it when i see it...I am getting PLENTY of beer for a LONG afternoon...

He says also that I can simple unbolt the driveshaft, and then unbolt the tranny and slide it back, then take off two nuts that hold the pp on then rotate it to get access to the next two and so-on...6 total...

All this sound good? Should be a nice day, and I am NOT planning on pulling the tranny out completely...

Comments...suggestions...

THANKS AGAIN!!!

Jim

Jim ; yes you can pull the PP out by turning the engine bit by bit , be _sure_ closely inspect that
pilot bearing ! .

NAPA sells brand new clutches for these trucks (11") affordably .

Let us know how it goes .

Well Praise BE !!!!!

The pilot bearing was stuck on the input shaft...loosened up the p/p bolts...jacked up the rear, started the truck and kept popping the clutch...after about 6 times it snapped free...tighened back the bolts, then I took it out for a ride and purposily made it slip to "clean" the pads a little. Runs fine...my buddies seemed to think that the humidity and the heat, and the fact that it had not been driven for a few weeks...

THANKS for all the HELP, and YES! I did get the 11" clutch kit at NAPA...$156...that's not bad at ALL.

Keep on DRIVING!!!!!!

Jim

That's good news. I hope you lubed the pilot, sounds like the grease either washed out or dried up.