Hey all, I finally got an AD! An all original but paint, 1954 5 window, deluxe cab with Hydramatic. I assume it's a rare animal. Anyhoo, it came with two motors, the original with a badly cracked block with code F54M, which I found was for Hydramatic and the other 'working' motor out of a sedan with code F54Z. Are there differences in these two? Can I use the sedan Z code with the Hydramatic? Head # on both is 3835913. Thanks, Brian
The Hydra-Matic adapter ring that bolts onto the back of the engine was matched to the block for minimum runout at the factory, using a dial indicator mounted to the crankshaft hub. If a different block was fitted during maintenance, it was necessary to check the runout and correct it if necessary, using offset dowel pins to minimize the runout. The Hydra-Matic fluid coupling (not a torque converter, BTW) is very sensitive to centering. My father's independent shop was the first one in Nashville Tennessee to work on automatic transmissions, back in the late 1940s. A few years later, a former WW II tank mechanic who had worked on the M51-A light duty tanks with Cadillac flathead V8 engines and Hydramatic transmissions opened up a competing shop. The tank had two engine/trans assemblies, one for each track.
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Ribside - Just a confirmation to show your "F54Z" engine was in fact a Flint Plant built 1954 Model year standard production 235 that would have been in front of a manual 3 speed or 3 speed OD transmission.
~ Dan 1951 Chevy 3 window 3100 Follow this story in the DITY Gallery "My Grandpa Carl's Truck and How it Became Mine" 1966 Chevelle (Wife's Hot Rod) | 2013 Chevy Silverado (Current daily driver) US Army MSG Retired (1977-1998) | Com Fac Maint Lead Tech Retired (1998-2021)
Brian - Yes, but as Jerry said, the Hydra-Matic engines were individually checked and mated at the factory to the specific transmissions because of the extremely close tolerances required for the units to operate together properly. Misalignment between the two can have catastrophic results to the "fluid coupling" and transmission. The engine/transmission sets had matched serial number data plates to help keep them together as a set.
If you intend to run the Hydra-Matic with the car 235, it will need to be checked for runout as Jerry indicated, and adjusted if runout exceeds alignment tolerances. It can certainly be done and there are possibly some folks still active that can help with the 'how-to" or point you to someone that can do it for you.
~ Dan 1951 Chevy 3 window 3100 Follow this story in the DITY Gallery "My Grandpa Carl's Truck and How it Became Mine" 1966 Chevelle (Wife's Hot Rod) | 2013 Chevy Silverado (Current daily driver) US Army MSG Retired (1977-1998) | Com Fac Maint Lead Tech Retired (1998-2021)
One good source for information, and extremely rare vintage transmission parts is FATSCO Transmissions, located somewhere up in "NOO JOISEY". They're very knowledgeable about Hydramatics, but I needed a yankee/redneck translator during our phone conversations several years ago!
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Someone will correct me if I am wrong but I also believe one of the easy to miss differences is the H-M engine would have had a pilot bearing in the back end of the crankshaft vs. a pilot bushing in a manual transmission motor.
Someone will correct me if I am wrong but I also believe one of the easy to miss differences is the H-M engine would have had a pilot bearing in the back end of the crankshaft vs. a pilot bushing in a manual transmission motor.
Since there is no relative motion between the crankshaft, and the drive torus of the fluid coupling, there is neither a bushing nor a bearing. Just a counterbore in the crankshaft flange to center the torus. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
There is shaft that protrudes into crankshaft. Bad picture of the front of transmission under workbench. Looked at mater parts catalog and it shows 0.549 bushing-bearing all but A-T and P.G.
Gene Berck of www.restorationhydramatics.com led me to believe there was one but it appears his website is no longer. Last I spoke with him, he was having health issues. Now I hope he is OK and just out of pocket. The Salinas CA Chamber of Commerce still listed him but did not see when that was dated.
I have a Powerglide-equipped 235, and a GMC engine/Hydramatic trans assembly, but they're both still bolted together. I remember that the Hydramatic torus is a 2 piece assembly held together by a couple of dozen studs and nuts just inboard of the starter ring gear, with the front part bolted directly to the crankshaft flange. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
It's been a VERY long time since I was elbow deep into a Hydramtic (like 1985, I believe), but according to the exploded view from FATSCO, the flywheel, drive torus, and pump cover are all mechanically linked together, and they turn at the same speed. The snout of the input shaft looks like it plugs into the end of the crankshaft. You're probably correct about there being a ball bearing in the crankshaft, as the input shaft won't begin to turn until the driven torus starts to move. A fluid coupling achieves a better lockup than a torque converter, so there will be times during the shift pattern when the crankshaft and the input shaft will be turning virtually the same speed. The very best speed match a torque converter can achieve is 90%- - - - -there's an unavoidable 10% slip built in when an almost 2:1 torque multiplication by the stator happens at low speed. The drive and driven torus assembly is held in close tolerance (but not touching) by a nut and lock washer.
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
