The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Valve Cover Gasket Replacement

I picked up the correct valve cover gasket today from Auto Zone. The rest of the stuff is arriving on Tuesday. I ordered the incorrect Felpro version as well because it comes with the 2 grommets for the top of the cover.

I'll do the double stack method with the 4-holer on top and the Mahle one on the head.

Take a look at these pictures and feel free to offer any opinions, suggestions, dos & don'ts, admonishments, criticisms, insults, cash donations, or anything else.

What's the best way to clean this valve train up? I'm afraid to use degreaser because I don't want a bunch of crud getting into any oil passages.

Speaking of oil passages, why do those last 4 valves look so dry? Does it have anything to do with the copper oil tube thing?

I think my tube may have broken off down in the head/block whatever because it can rock back and forth on the rocker shaft.

Does it connect down at the oil pump or something? I'm not tearing this whole engine down so hopefully I can solve whatever problems we find from right here.

When I removed the valve cover, the stackup of washers, etc didn't seem right.

From the top down it went;

Acorn
Lock washer
Large dia washer
Smaller Same diameter as grommet, thin washer
Grommet

The rear bolt's grommet was nowhere to be found. The front one was hard as a rock.

Anyway, here are a couple of "Before" engine pictures. It'ss be painted when all this is over.

Mating surface for gasket is exceptionally clean. It looks like the PO used RTV on the valve cover itself and none on the head.

In case the numbers on the head are needed for future work/parts/valve adjustment or whatever, here they are.

Are you working with a spray-oiler 216 or an early 235, or is it an early full pressure 235? The 216 and pre-54 spray oiler 235s with the triangular shaped sheet metal oil distributor near the oil pan rail have a copper {not steel) tube that passes through the water jacket and ends up at the rocker arm shaft. Early full pressure 235s have a steel tube under the pushrod cover that gets pressurized oil from the rear cam bearing boss. Both types are subject to wear from contact with the pushrods and/or breakage due to vibration. DO NOT try to replace the line through the water jacket with steel- - - - -it will rust out. The copper tube is soldered to the adapter fittings on both sides of the water jacket, and must be destroyed to remove it- - - -it's a one time installation. Some of the resto-ripoff places sell a kit with tubing and the fittings needed for that project.
Jerry

Hi jerry, yes this is a 1951 216 spray oiler.. it looks like I'll be able to see what's going on when I get the side cover off to replace that gasket.

Once I do that maybe the solution will become obvious. The tube as you can see in the picture appears to be copper but that might just be discoloration due to crud or something I can't really tell till I get it cleaned off.


I just finished pressure washing the valve cover inside and out. Got most of the baked on crud off of the inside and the cover itself is remarkably straight and doesn't look like it's going to require any tinsmithing.

I'll put a straight edge on it after I get it all cleaned up but it looks like it's in remarkably good condition.

That's definitely a 216 head casting number. And the rocker oiler tube is copper. It looks like things may be plugged with crud or there just isn't enough oil getting up to the rocker shafts to get oil to the higher front rockers. It's essentially a gravity system with that overflow tube shown in the attached pic of yours. If the rockers are worn enough then the oil could run out around the rear rockers and never get to the front ones. An old timer trick is to pinch off the overflow tube to force more pressure to the rockers. But I would remove the rocker assemblies and clean them up and inspect. They may be too worn and ready to be replaced. R&R of the rocker assemblies isn't a hard thing and you're planning on adjusting the valves anyway. Reattaching the tube to the oiler assembly can be a little fiddly, but if you don't bend the tube coming up from the pushrod gallery, it should thread back in easily.

The dry rockers are the 4 in the rear of the head.

I thought the front two looked a little funky.

I;ll look again but I think everything toward the front is nice and wet with oil.

Picture #5 is of the rear rockers that are dry

Pull the entire rocker assembly and clean everything thoroughly, especially inside of the rocker shafts. The outside end of each shaft had a plug very similar to a freeze plug. Remove those to make sure that the entire length of the shafts are clean.
Inspect the rocker arms shafts where the rocker arms ride, especially the bottom of the shafts. Lack of oil will severely gall the shafts there.
When you are done cleaning the shafts, you should be able to reuse the end plugs. You may have to expand the end s of the plugs. I use a small ball peen hammer placed in the end of the plug and strike the hammer with another hammer to spread it a bit until it provides some resistance when test fitted in the shaft.

Can of worms is now open.

I should have let a leaking dog lie.

Happens frequently with our old trucks.

If I take the rocker shaft out, as long as I don't mess with anything, turn over the engine, or unscrew the adjusters, I can put it back in, as-is, and the truck will run as it did before, right?

Then I can adjust the valves?

Is that copper oil tube accessible through the side cover to make repairs?

Valves and springs can stay put, right?

Yes, the rocker shaft can be removed without messing things up, but putting it back in is a little tricky as you'll be opening some of the valves as you tighten the bolts to draw the assembly into place. Pushrods will have to be positioned as you put it in place and then tighten the bolts. Yes valves and springs can stay in place. It won't matter if you rotate the engine.

Before you pull the rocker shaft, you might try removing the distributor and spinning the oil pump with a drill motor using a steel rod with the end flattened to mate up with the slot in the pump. You should be able to see oil coming out of the rockers and out the overflow tube. As long as you don't turn the engine over, the distributor can drop back in in the same position before you took it out.

I doubt that the copper oil tube is a problem. If it does have a leak in it behind the side cover, you'll need to replace the whole thing like Jerry said. It starts on the opposite of the engine, goes through the cooling jacket and then up to the rocker oiler fitting. Coolant will have to be drained out. I would say that replacing the oil line would be more difficult than the rocker assembly.

Yes that does look like it would be more difficult. Also since the engine is in the vehicle any kind of work down there is going to be difficult.

I'll probably know more this afternoon when I get the side cover off.

This is definitely turning into more work than I wanted to do

Yeah I'm kind of worried about what I'm going to find when I get that cover off because it sure seems like that oil tube is broken off in there.

Unless I am missing something I would not take the side cover off until I had gone thru the top end cleanup and determined that is all made clean and within spec. If it solves the issue great, if not I don’t think you lost much time if you need to go deeper.

Chuck

If there's oil getting to the rockers, I really doubt that the oil tube is broken off.
I'm with Chuck on waiting to to take the side cover off. Spinning the oil pump with a drill before doing anything else would be my first step at this point. That will definitely tell you whether the oil tube is broken, and I'll bet you'll get some oil out of the overflow at the rockers.

Too late, Chuck. Side cover is off. It had to come off anyway because it was leaking. Fixing all the oil seepage at the valve and side covers is what started Operation Worm Can in the first place.

Anyway, as you can see, the copper tube is broken right where it goes up into the head.

So, are compression fitting couplings available in this size copper tube to join the two pieces back together? High temp silicone hose?

The broken tube explains why the last 4valve rockers are completely dry.

When re-installing the side cover, what's the procedure?

How do you keep the little cork spark plug seals in place? Should they be glued to the cover first or glued to the engine and then the cover installed over them?

As for the Stove Bolts, 1 was missing, 1 was a hex bolt, 2 were slotted round head bolts. Should I just buy 12 new hex bolts? Are the slotted stove bolts available at Ace to replace the 4 I need?

Well, that's unfortunate. And unexpected.

You could cut that broken tube back a little so there's room for a compression coupling (pic 1) and add a new piece going up to the rocker oiler fitting. I believe that tube is standard 1/4" OD copper tubing.
You'll need a new fitting for the upper end as it uses what's called a captive ferrule fitting (pic 2) and they can't be removed from the existing tubing and reused.
Compression couplings are easy to find at your local hardware, but captive ferrule fittings are not so easy to find. I think I've seen them on McMaster Carr's site, but couldn't find them today. [on edit] found them. LINK

Glue the cork rings to the cover, I didn't use any sealant between there and the block. Stovebolt screws (called pan head slotted screws) should be available at your local hardware. But you could use anything, including hex head. They should have external star lockwashers under them.

OK, I meant to ask about washers. One or two had external stars, the rest had lock washers or flat washers.

How does that captive ferule fitting attach to the tubing?

I wonder if I could just attach both existing pieces together with a coupler? It's probably too far up in that passageway to get a fitting on it.

Can the upper piece of copper be removed with the captive ferule fitting intact and then re-attached? Or is it a one time use?

The captive ferrule fittings can't usually be reused, but maybe if you can get it off the tubing you can slide it on the new piece of tubing. usually the hole in the fitting is too small to get it over new tubing. It's worth a try. I did find them at Mcmaster Carr link in my post above. They're designed to compress and squeeze the tubing a bit to form the seal.

I think you'll need to cut the lower piece back to get a coupler on, as you said, it's probably too far up in the head to make a good connection if it's even possible to reach.

Another thought, since the tube operates at very low pressure is to slip a rubber hose over it. Something that's oil resistant would be best and a tight fit on the tubing. Probably don't even need a clamp, but one on the lower piece of tube would be insurance to prevent it from slipping off and having to go thru the whole drill again. Myself, I'd go with a compression coupler and new captive ferrule nut.

Yes, a rubber tube of some kind was my first thought. Maybe some sort of fuel hose.

What industries use captive ferules? Is it a plumbing type fitting?

I just went out to the garage to take a closer look at that fitting. The copper tube can move around within the fitting. I suspect that it's supposed to be fixed in place. Is that correct?

If it isn't supposed to be able to turn inside the fitting then that upper part is shot anyway and I'm going to have to get a new captive feral regardless.

The fact that the tubing can move inside the fitting is a good sign. That means the fitting may not be compressed too much to be reused. It depends on the tightness of the nut to seal by compressing the front end of the fitting on to the tubing. It should at least turn on the tubing if you pull it off.
The captive ferrule might be available at a plumbing shop, but I've only seen them on cars. I used to work in plumbing years ago. That McMaster Carr link I posted above might be easier than running all over town trying to find one. I'd pull the tube off and see if the fitting will slip over a new piece of tubing. You may get lucky. (You need some of that right now)

Since you guys said I have to take that rocker shaft out in order to clean it, that means I would have to have disconnected that captive Ferrell fitting anyway, right? Looking at this setup it does not appear that the shaft can be removed without removing that copper tube from its threaded in female fitting that's attached to the shaft. Is that true? If so, then it looks like I would have been in this situation regardless of whether the tube was broken or not and I still be in the position of having to replace that fitting and part of the tube, right? Am I understanding how all this junk goes together correctly?

Yes, that fitting would normally have to be unscrewed to get the rocker shafts off, but it can be reattached. When I said the captive ferrule fitting wasn't reusable, I meant getting it off without ruining it to put it on a new piece of tubing. Right now with the tube broken, you can remove the rocker shafts without messing with the fitting, as the tube will come off with the shaft oiler.

HERE's your fallback position, but I think the coupler will do the trick for you. That captive ferrule nut looks pristine - no one has rounded it off. Pull that piece off and check it out.

Here it is. You can see a shiny part and a groove on the tube where it was rubbing on the flange of the head where it entered that passageway

I have zero desire to get into the backup plan. I'll do whatever I have to to avoid that.

What's the best way to get this court gasket material off of the side cover flange? Obviously I don't want to use a wire wheel on a drill because little pieces will go everywhere. I guess just razor blades and scrapers right?

You can see that the four rockers on the left have virtually no oil or goop on them compared to the one on the far right. All the rest going toward the front of the engine look plenty greasy and oily

Does this spring look okay? It's sticking up higher than all the rest.

Except for the two springs on the very end. It's sticking up about the same height as those two where they have those little spring clips holding them in place.

The copper tube is actually quite thin about 3/16 inches outside diameter. What is the nominal size for this tubing? 1/8"?

All right I just loosen the three studs on the front rocker shaft. And there is an awful lot of play side to side of that shaft. When it's time to put it back together how do you know that you have it aligned properly?

And the center studs that go through the top of the valve cover are not in a fixed position the stud turns and the nut on the stud turns. Again how do you know where stuff is supposed to be when you put it back together?

Operation worm can is making me nervous.

Yeah in case you guys can't tell I've never done this before on any engine.

I guess wire brush and brake cleaner or degreaser for cleaning all these little pieces, right?

As far as that copper tube, I'm not sure they make compression fittings that small I'll have to see. It's I think 1/8 inch inside diameter

There are sweat copper couplings available in most sizes at least down to 1/8”, the plumber in me would be more comfortable with a soldered joint than a compression coupling given the vibration, and the outside diameter of a solder coupling is much smaller.most plumbing supply houses stock this stuff.
For reference most small diameter soft (copper)tubing is sized by the outside diameter, 1/8”od, 3/16”od, 1/4”od, 5/16”od, 3/8”od are normal products

Chuck

I don't trust my pipe sweating abilities for something that small and hard to reach.

Right now, the rubber hose method is the leading contender followed by compression coupling.

The engine paint was delivered today. I was hoping to be putting everything back together tomorrow but I now have the rocker shafts to deal with.

While I respect and recommend staying within your comfort zone… you can do a test piece on the bench to raise your confidence level.

A solid solder joint in a tough spot can be simplified by pretinning the parts, this just means clean and flux, then heat and apply/melt solder onto each part (the outside of tubings/inside of coupling) and completely wipe/flick excess solder leaving just the silver color on the parts. Reflux and assemble, The fine solder layer left on each the parts ensures proper flow/bond when heat is applied to the assembled parts….with just heat and a touch of solder you will complete the joint.
Chuck

Compression fittings are available down to 1/8" OD. But your oil line will be 3/16" OD. That fitting I posted a picture of is actually the one from a 216 I have. It slipped off the tubing that I just measured and would be available if yours isn't going to come off.

Your rockers, springs and such look fairly normal. The end play is dealt with by the springs, bolt stands and the clips on the ends. What you need to look out for is excessive wear on the bottom of the shafts, as mentioned before. Just be sure you keep everything in the same order as they came off. Also when you put it back together, be sure that the tubing isn't against the passage thru the head or any other part of the block.

The problem with sweat copper couplings is they're only readily available down to 3/8 OD tubing. You might be able to use 1/4" OD tubing as a coupling for 3/16" OD tubing, but sweat fittings are dependent on a fairly close fit. Some 1/4" OD tubing has smaller ID than 3/16" so wouldn't work. But with the right mandrel you could swage (expand) it to fit. If I had to I might try it but it's fairly complicated.

Thanks, Kevin. I might take you up on your offer of the fitting. I haven't attempted to remove mine yet. I figure I'll get everything cleaned and ready to put back together.

I've already pressure washed the valve cover and side cover.

I've got to pick up some more Brakeleen today to scrub up the shaft and rockers.

Fortunately the front shaft looks pretty clean inside and out. I haven't removed the rear one yet. Should I wire wheel the rockers to a shiny finish or just get rid of loose crud? I'm not rebuilding the engine or anything and the original plan was to just replace the gaskets.

What do you mean by excessive wear on the bottom of the shafts? Are you talking about where the rocker arms are positioned? So far everything is smooth and shiny.

Otto, no need to wire wheel the rockers. Dunking them in solvent should be fine. Or scrubbing with a toothbrush and brake clean.

The rockers are under nearly constant pressure against the bottom of the rocker shafts and that's where wear would occur without good lubrication. It sounds like you don't have that problem at least with one shaft.

With that cracked tube, it may have been lined up with the top half and gotten at least some oil up to the rockers. It doesn't take much to do an adequate job of lubing the rocker shafts.

Let me know on the fitting.

Thanks Kevin. It doesn't look like I 'll be able to get the fitting off this tube. The end of the tube is too large at the tip and it won't slide backward (although I haven't applied a lot of force. I'll let you know if I have to get that fitting.

I was thinking the same thing you were about the broken tube. I think the two pieces were in contact with each other and oil probably still made it up to the shaft. The break was nice and clean - like the pieces were rubbing together.

I'll look closely at the rear shaft bottom when I take it off although I don't know what I could do about it if its worn.

I found some 3/16" fuel line that is also suitable as an oil line for low pressure (under 50psi) and temps under 250. I might end up doing this and running the hose all the way through the passageway from the pushrod gallery to the valve train.