The Stovebolt.com Forums Home | Tech Tips | Gallery | FAQ | Events | Features | Search
Help is a click away!

VEHICLE
INFORMATION
KITS


at the

GM Heritage Center
All the details are here.

Searching the Site - a click away
click here to search
New here ??? Where to start?
Click on image for the lowdown. Where do I go around here?
====
Who's Online Now
6 members (Gdads51, Bill Hanlon, Buckeye998, fonz8261, Shade Baby, BarryP), 329 guests, and 4 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums66
Topics128,163
Posts1,057,072
Members48,463
Most Online14,466
Apr 26th, 2026
Step-by-step instructions for pictures in the forums
Brad Allen's photos

AD Chevy Trucks

Pictures galore
Over 6,000 pictures

Brad Allen has an awesome collection of Chevrolet factory pictures that he has set up from film strips.

Check them out!

Lots of work on Brad's part ... pure enjoyment (and references) for you!

Big Thanks!

THANKS!

For helping keep this great
old truck web site
on the Internet for

over 30 years!

and not clogged down
with Ads!


Again, thanks!

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 29,871
H
Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer)
Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer)
H Offline
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 29,871
Back in the dark ages when I was growing up around a dirt track racing shop, there was a sign on the wall- - - -"Build 'em little- - - - -wind 'em tight- - - -get the chemicals just right!" Dad was always looking for ways to turn those flathead Ford V8s considerably higher RPM than his competitors. While most of the other guys were running long stroke crankshafts in the pursuit of higher torque, Dad ran shorter strokes, bigger bore sizes, and turned his engines much higher RPM than his competition. He also won a lot of races. Everybody was running the same kind of fuel- - - - -alcohol, with a heavy dose of concentrated hydrogen Peroxide- - - -which produced more oxygen in the combustion chamber than Nitromethane. It also allowed compression ratios around 11:1.

Since stovebolt engines have such terrible intake and exhaust port shapes, which effectively limits the volume of air they're able to flow, I wonder why nobody has explored the possibility of small displacement engines running at higher RPM while staying within the flow capabilities of the less than ideal cylinder head design? A 216 engine has a 3.5 inch stroke. Why not drill a 216 crankshaft for full pressure oiling, destroke it to 3.25", and run that crankshaft in a 235 or 261 engine block? Less displacement, shorter stroke and a LOT more RPM! A stovebolt built that way would probably sound like a bumblebee on steroids! That would probably require stiffer valve springs, and maybe roller bearing rocker arms and/or valve lifters, but it could certainly surprise a few people! A standard bore 261 with a 3.25" stroke would have 215 cubic inches, and probably be capable of 6K+ RPM.
Jerry


"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln
Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway
Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 11,156
Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums
Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 11,156
Originally Posted by Hotrod Lincoln
Why not drill a 216 crankshaft for full pressure oiling, destroke it to 3.25", and run that crankshaft in a 235 or 261 engine block?
Jerry
Good concept Jerry, but I don't think it would be possible to drill a 216 crank for full pressure oiling. Because of the large lightening holes in the crank throws. Maybe if you have a flexible drill bit that can drill around corners. wink It would definitely take some pretty precise drilling if a straight line between main and rod journals could be found to miss those lightening holes (which 235 cranks don't have.)
Attachments
IMG_8846.JPG (245.21 KB, 111 downloads)


Kevin
1951 Chevy 3100 work truck
Follow this saga in Project Journal
Photos
1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car)
Busting rust since the mid-60's
If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 29,871
H
Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer)
Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer)
H Offline
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 29,871
Several places used to do that years ago, including one of the camshaft regrinders, so if they could figure it out using manual machine tools, a modern CNC shop could most likely do the same thing with a minimum of programming. It would also be possible to use a pressed-in piece of seamless tubing (like a small block V8 pushrod) to fabricate an oil gallery, staked or welded into place to keep it steady from centrifugal force. "Impossible" only means that somebody hasn't done it yet! I've got a bolt-on jig on the drawing board, one that would attach to a rod journal and guide a long drill bit with hardened steel drill bushings. Once a small diameter hole (maybe 1/8" or 3/16") is in the right position from the rod to main journal, it can be reamed or otherwise enlarged to make an oil passage.
Jerry


"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln
Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway
Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 11,156
Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums
Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 11,156
A piece of tubing pressed in across the lightening hole would work. Just another step to doing it. From the looks of the crank I have the hole would have to cross the lightening hole. I agree that there's always a way to do something. A little more head-scratching might be necessary. You're the guy who can figure it out Jerry. thumbs_up


Kevin
1951 Chevy 3100 work truck
Follow this saga in Project Journal
Photos
1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car)
Busting rust since the mid-60's
If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 29,871
H
Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer)
Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer)
H Offline
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 29,871
I love building "sleepers"- - - - -engines that look completely original, and do stuff that seems to be impossible. The "305" claimer engines I used to build for circle track "street stock" class were beating guys with 350s- - - - -turning over 1K RPM faster consistently. We were limited to a 350 CFM Holley 7448 2 barrel carburetor, so building a destroked 305 with 100 cubic inches less to feed let my engines wind up impossibly tight. Yes, they were illegal (non-stock 2 7/8" stroke), but unless somebody paid a very expensive protest fee to tear the engine down, all my "305" casting numbers were correct. I just couldn't win a low RPM torque battle off the turns with a 350. Low rear end gears and lots of RPM made that a moot point. If my guy ever got to the front of the pack, the only thing the race would decide was who was going to finish second!
Jerry


"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln
Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway
Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 29,871
H
Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer)
Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer)
H Offline
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 29,871
Another example of a "big bore/short stroke" engine would be a 235 bored .060" oversize to 3 5/8 inches, with a 3.25" destroked 216 crankshaft- - - - -201 cubic inches, and a very high-winding RPM capability. With the right combination of properly weight matched lightweight pistons and rods, and smaller than standard rod and main bearings, the engine should be capable of continuous operation in the 4K to 5.5K RPM range. "A bumblebee on steroids!"
Jerry


"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln
Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway
Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 605
T
'Bolter
'Bolter
T Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 605
Reminds me of the old arguments of 283 versus 350/383/400 smallblock Chevy. We had a Malibu that came with a 307 and when it smoked out (we're talking James Bond smokescreen here when you downshifted on the highway) Dad found a 283 somewhere and we installed it over a weekend.

I'll take that nimble little 283 over the frame flexing brute of a 396 any day. Even the fairly mild mouse motor could light up a lovely two tire fire.


1965 C60 school bus | 1967 GMC 6500 school bus
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,922
P
'Bolter
'Bolter
P Offline
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,922
How fast do you think a 3.50" crank can turn?
A reduction to 3.25" is about 7.7% faster, but where does 6,000 RPM come from?
Working backward from the above gives the 3.50" crank 5,600.

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 29,871
H
Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer)
Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer)
H Offline
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 29,871
The 2 7/8" stroke 289 Fords that Red Farmer raced would turn 8K all day- - - - -and he did it for decades with dozens of engines. The only limiting factor on my 250 cubic inch "305" was a restrictive carburetor. RPM is simply determined by efficient airflow, proper cam profile, and plenty of valve spring. A circle track engine with 500 miles on it is about as rare as a chicken with lips- - - - -they wear out or blow up before then.
Jerry


"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln
Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway
Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!

Moderated by  Fibonachu, KCMongo 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Home | FAQ | Gallery | Tech Tips | Events | Features | Search | Hoo-Ya Shop
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.0