The Stovebolt Site Forums The Side Lot Old Dominion Stovebolt Society (MD, VA, West VA, DC, DE and PA) Charlie -- An Update

Just to update everyone (who cares), wake this forum up and lastly, to bump Carl off the "latest Post" tote ...

First, a recap -- a few weeks ago, the head gasket on the 261 blew. Why? Not sure. Anyway, Jerry and his grandson came over and we removed the head. Jerry took the head to our favorite machinist in Fayetteville, TN (less than an hour from here) to get checked. Among other issues, the valve guides showed excessive wear due to the valves being reinstalled incorrectly (both OEM o-ring AND umbrella cap oil seals -- NO oil was getting to the valve stems)

Update:

1. The head has been checked for cracks and resurfaced (decked).
2. New valve guides installed.

Jerry is currently machining the head to fit all new intake and exhaust valves to install, and the exhausts will be stainless steel, and a bit oversized for better exhaust gas scavenging. The exhausts are the same as small block V8 valves, which makes them very inexpensive and plentiful.

Currently, we are trying to work around Jerry's evolving medical schedule. Like Charlie, he's getting a valve job, too.

Wood working operations at Mountain's Edge Farm are currently at a stand still because .... there's a dead truck in the middle of the wood shop.

I know you are all on the edge of your seats on this one. Just hang in there.

Out.

Thanks for this update!

sounds like Jerry AND Charlie will be back to full speed shortly.

I just hope Jerry's procedure is using cleaner rags than the ones being used on Charlie... :-)

Had that very same no oil to the guides problem on the 235 in Sweet Pea. It was caused by the machine shop which put positive seals on.

Glad to hear things are moving John - Sorry to hear that woodshop operations are stifled. Sty warm - Joe

Charlie got recapitated today had a few set backs, but we got through them. Msinly that when we set the rocker arm assembly back on, the engine locked up. Jerry determined that the new valves have longer stems ... So we got to that point about 1600 and decided to finish on Friday.

What kind of warranty do you get with the rebuilt head?

Best warranty available- - - - -a machine shop I've been dealing with for 40+ years, and no issues whatsoever. They routinely go above and beyond what's expected of them. We're a long way south of the area where questions like that get asked.
Jerry

Which reminds me .... Any of those heads that got rebuilt in Philly along with mine had best be checked for excessive wear in the valve guides because the dude put both kinds of oil seals on them, not one or the other.

Charlie's valve guide wear video

Good luck!

So John,
when Jerry said they had both, did he mean that both seals were on a single valve?

Jim (John here) -- Yes. Each valve had both -- the O-ring AND the umbrella cap. So little to no oil was lubricating the valve stem leading to excessive wear on the valve guides.

John

Thanks for the heads up! Time to pull the valve cover. That’s as soon as it gets above freezing! Ol phil says 6 more weeks of winter!

Jim -- Maybe Jerry can answer this -- IF you have the umbrella caps, I don't know how you can tell if the O-rings are also installed short of pulling the head to drop the valves... I would think the keepers hide them.

If you don't have umbrella caps, O-rings are *probably* there.... If there *are* umbrella caps ....Hmmmmmm. But if your head got done by the same guy who did mine, I think if I saw the umbrella caps that I would think pretty hard about pulling the head to be sure the o-rings aren't there, too.

Unless the White Wizard from Tennessee has a better idea ...

Not the White Wizard at all, But I changed valve springs on my 5.9 Cummins by making sure each cylinder was at TDC before compressing the valve springs enough to remove the keepers. Also many years ago I changed the valve seals with heads on, on our 1988 Dodge Dynasty's 3.0-liter, V6 Mitsubishi engine using a jury-rigged spark plug with an air chuck welded to it. Lesson learned, too much air will rotate the engine, gotta be CAREFUL and don't pull all the plugs at the same time.

Although I've had my '51 for over a decade now I've luckily not had to think about valve stem seals...yet.

Good Luck,

RonR

There's also the stuff the combustion chamber full of rope trick to keep the valves seated. Not sure if the o-ring seals will be accessible unless the valves are removed, though.

Final note this topic...

Jerry and I wrapped this up yesterday. The manifolds have warped so they blow exhaust as bad as if they weren't attached at all. So they will be headed to the machine shop next. Anyway, videos are available in the Engine Forum post.

Due to the oddball shape of the combustion chamber on a stovebolt engine, the rope trick probably won't work well to do a head-on valve spring removal. The exhaust valve will be difficult to hold against the seat that way. Air pressure works well- - - -but- - - -put the transmission in gear and set the parking brake and/or chock the wheels to keep the engine from turning before turning the air on. Two pairs of vise grips on the flywheel at the bottom of the bellhousing also works, especially if you happen to be working with an engine with an automatic transmission.
Jerry