The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Interiors Windlace Options

I know this subject has been discussed here a lot over time but now I am the point in time where I need to source windlace for my doors and wondering if there is a preferred source given the prior discussion about differences in profile affecting the fit and function?

I believe Steele is probably considered the best for material but not sure about profile and they are pricy compared to the other options.

Any insight would be appreciated but I am hoping this doesn't spur another debate about one supplier vs. another.

I think the term used in discussions was door seal or door weatherstrip rather than windlace which may be why you couldn't find the threads.

Jon G has a lengthy article with photographic comparisons of the original to various reproductions.

Steele was the closest to original but not exactly correct.

What kind of track are on your door openings? If it's the u-shaped channel, (screws were used on earlier trucks) here's what I found. Steele only carries black. Jim Carter has the original tan-grey color but the bulb end that contacts the door is too long and many have said doesn't even touch the door. What I used was from Restoration Specialties, They offer Black, Tan and Grey. I went with the Tan, which I thought looked good with the original color. Not cheap (don't remember exact price,) but looks good and fits right (although I needed to trim down the dovetail that slips into the channel to be able to get it in place.) A friend and I spent multiple days getting it installed.
Here's some pics.

Kevin,
Regarding the windlace / door weatherstrip you mentioned above. I looked at their website and only found the black shown. Do you recall a part number you used to order the tan color. I would be interested in getting that same product for my 1950. Your picture includes the gray and black, but the tan would work best.
Thanks, Tom

I recall that I called them to order. Phone # should be visible on one of the pics I posted. Actually that black sample on the bottom was from Steele, not Restoration Specialties.

My track is a U shaped channel similar to the one in Kevin's picture of the the various samples aligned in a track. The lower sections on the front were replaced with sections from one of the typical suppliers (originals were rusted away). I am sure that installation will be time consuming and frustrating for a variety of reasons (some self imposed).

I would be fine with black and will add Restoration Specialist to my list of potential suppliers.

Does restoration specialist show dimensions for their product? I'd be interested to see how it compares to Steele rubber product's offering.

A quick review of the Restoration Specialist website did not reveal what Kevin found so it will take more digging. What I did see did not generally provide dimensions, either pictures or sketches of teh cross section and a reference to the vehicle the part was intended for.

It's possible they don't carry it anymore. I for some reason can't seem to locate the thread where John g explained his comparison of all of the suppliers win lace. And that the dimensions of the steel product were the closest to the original of all of them. Maybe I'm misremembering.

The bottom sample in the picture I posted above was actually from Steele, so the dimensions between it an Restoration Specialties offering is nearly identical.

You'd have to call Restoration Specialties for the tan product I used. Same part number 990007 with the color tacked on.

As you can see from Jeff's note in the photo, he's willing to make tooling to match the sample of original I sent him. I'd imagine it would NOT be cheap and he'd want a large commitment from buyers to do that. But his current tooling works nicely. He might be able to do a run with the original tan-grey material if someone is a stickler for originality.

Maybe 3 years ago I discovered the same thing a lot of other people have...that the windlace produced today is different. Almost all ends up just being decorative in that it looks okay but does not do very much (if anything) about sealing things. Why? Because once you install it, the round part does not touch the door frame. The best of what I had bought as I said "looked" like it might work however it didn't. I still have one set of what I bought here. One was discarded.

I bought what I got from two sellers (I'm not going to tell you who because they didn't make it and the fact it wasn't correct wasn't their fault) and also some folks sent me pieces of other windlace they had bought and only one of them came close to being okay (even though it actually wasn't). There is a drawing attached which is what Steele's product was supposed to be, however for some reason it seems it didn't get made that way. And after that drawing is the Steele product and as you can see the round part sits level with the bottom of the installation slot (which is not right). And as I recall it was only available in black.

Please look at the first image below. This is how the original GM stuff fit. I've removed my window trim pieces to paint them but the yellow arrow shows how the windlace ought to fit if all is good. With no trim piece a popsicle stick stuck between the windlace and the door around the window opening won't fall out. The last image below shows a piece of common Cheez-It box I cut and stuck between the rubber and the door frame. It fits pretty snugly.

The problem can be seen below. The new type looks like it might be okay, but the round part does not contact the door when you install it...you can see where the round part is in relation to the bottom of the slot. A gentleman here had offered to try to have some made that would work correctly. In a perfect world the rubber needs to be softer than what is being sold today (by anyone). It needs to be closer to the shore rating of the weatherstripping used in today's vehicles. That is to say soft enough not to cause door closing issues but firm enough to make contact. What is sold today is extremely dense stuff. It is a fine line, too. Too stiff and you will have trouble closing your doors. The fellow got a quote or two and as I recall it could only be run in black and people wanted the standard brownish gray also. Plus I don't believe he ever got enough people to agree to buy it.

So that's as far as the work got. I ended up using some I had bought from GM almost 50 years ago and had used it since then. I wanted new stuff, but it seems to still be okay and better than anything out there currently. The last 2 images below show what it looks like when I re-installed it...you can see how it sits in the door opening. Hope it helps.

I can't prove it, but I think the stuff I got from Restoration Specialties does touch the door as it should. I'll have to confirm when I get back to my truck at the end of the month.

I didn't get anything from them back then. Hopefully that is the case and it works. Was it black or did they match the original color (sort of a brown taupe grayish)? I did look on their website maybe a couple of months ago but couldn't find that type of windlace.

I used tan, which was pretty complementary to the interior color. A bit different from the brown/grey that Jim Carter has.

Jon G thank you for the details and information provided.

Kevin, I look forward to your assesment of your contact on the Restoration Specialist product when you have a chance (no rush).

Another thing. When installing the windlace I used Ideal Aqua-Gel II wire pulling lubricant on the windlace and in the channels. It cleans up with water and makes the work a bit easier...does not make the work a breeze but it does help. It is available from Home Depot, but I had to order it as it wasn't stocked in their stores. About $12 plus tax for 2 quarts of the stuff. I truly don't know what I'm going to do with all of it. I was going to try it for shaving gel but I see there are warnings against that. Lifetime supply for sure.

https://tinyurl.com/5anbdt4t

Shave with it anyway. The warnings are probably for California. They're afraid of everything out there.

No I'm not!

WICruiser, I was pretty impressed with my interaction with Restoration Specialties. I sent them a sample of original windlace from my truck after seeing their catalog. He responded with the black and grey samples along with the note I posted a photo of above. Then one of his people sent me a sample of the tan windlace that I wound up buying. I did talk with Jeff on the phone a couple of times and he was very helpful. He had even offered to make different tooling and make some to match the original.
I did talk with someone at Jim Carter who said they had never had a complaint about it. I think they were out of stock of their product at the time I talked with them. They did offer to let me return it, but I wasn't going to pay return postage, and I had bought it way back in 2019.

Now that I have the windlace I could use some installation advice.

I know about lubrication of the form that engages the channel, checking the tracks for tight areas with a short section prior to installation, and I have been advised to install in sections with the joints offset from the track joints.

There are 2 gaps approx. 2" long near the top of the front and rear channels that I assume is where you start the installation but I can't envision how to get the last (assuming 3 sections) in place. It's probably simple/obvious but I'm just not getting it.

There is also a different windlace form that goes across the bottom of the door opening. I have the windlace and the retainer (steel strip) but I do't know how it is inteded to be placed so any guidance or pictures would be greatly appreciated.

The materials I have is from Jim Carter and I will report back about how it interacts with the door (touching or clearance) once I get it installed.

Roger, Measure the windlace so you know where to cut the dovetail section to start it into the gap up near the top of the front and rear. Jim Carter may have the notches already in place, I didn't check that. Then install the center section at the top so that your dovetail cutouts are slightly below the gap in the track. Once the top is in, start the front and rear sections in from the gap. It helps to cut a taper into the dovetail to help get it started. You'll wind up with a loop that gets smaller and smaller as you pull the front and rear sections in. Massage the corners so that loop finally lays flat in the track. Of course, the bulb section goes toward the center of the door opening. There's a pretty good description of windlace installation in the 1948-1951 Truck Shop Manual (starting on page1-7). Jim Carter says to push it into the track with a padded screwdriver, but I had no luck doing that. A helper is a must with one of you pulling and the other pushing and guiding it into the track. Here''s a picture of when I installed mine, showing the loop at the front of the door opening. The clamp helped to keep the windlace from popping out of the track.

Thanks Kevin. I am a one person operation so it may be a bit more challenging. I will need to look at the shop manual again, I didn't see it on my previous attempt.

Anyone have insight regarding the lower door windlace installation?

I’ll be doing this install soon, also as a one man band! Did you buy from Restoration Specialist’s?

The shop manual isn't a lot of help when it comes to more than the few words they use to describe the lower door seal that mounts to the cab floor lip for the lower door seal you're asking about.

This LMC Catalog Page 1947-55 (1st Series) Exterior Rubber Components provides a bit of an idea on this seal. Items 22 (Seal), 23 (Retainer strip) and 24 (screws for retainer strip) are what you seek and are secured to the top outer edge of the cab floor above the door step recess.

Note that there is a design change for 1947-49 vs 1950-55.1, so you'll have to decide which ones to use (if you haven't already gotten them).

Below is a pic of my 1951 3100 drivers door opening showing the edge of the cab floor and the long screwed down retaining strip that secures the lower door seal strip. Sorry for the dark view which doesn't really allow the actual weatherstrip piece to show up.

Phil, I did buy mine from Restoration Specialties.

Roger, the lower door windlace is a piece of cake (especially compared to putting the stuff in the track.) It's held on by the steel strip and a bunch of screws like Dan describes. That steel strip also extends over the windlace around the opening to secure that to the floor.
Recruit anyone you can to help with getting the windlace in the track. I don't think it's possible single handed. I know that I tried by myself.

Thanks for the insformation about the lower door windlace. I just wasn't sure which way the rubber is layed so that it is retained but also contacts the door correctly.

My windlace is from Jim Carter. It did not have any cuts in the track feature so I needed to make my own.

I started on the perimeter windlace seal on the driver's door yesterday and got the top and latch pillar in place but I'm really struggling with the hinge pillar section. The windshield inner trim and especially the dash interfere with the lip on the windlace making it very hard to get in place. I'll try again today. I'm not sure if a second person would help but I guess if they could help control the lip interference with the trim and dash it could help although it would be a very tight working area.

That section at the dash was a PITA for me as well. I think we started over more than once on that section. Sounds like you're "getting er done."

I finished the driver's door install - a total of about 4 hours split over 2 days. The front section by the dash was the worst, I could only move it roughly 1/2" at a time by pushing in at the dash with a plastic trim tool, pushing at the top to make sure it stayed in the channel, and pulling at the bottom. The upper rear corner has some bulges that I cannot seem to get worked out but I am okay with it.

The windlace bulb does not contact the door generally, it does in a few places but I'm sure it is not contacting as intended. However, it does provide a finished appearance where the opposite side lip covers the edge of the related sheet metal and will provide (I assume) a finished look for the edge of the headliner above the doors.

I still need to install the passenger side door before I move on to the headliner.

Looks like quite a challenge. Would silicone spray into the channel be helpful? It doesn't leave a residue when it dries, maybe it would slick the rubber parts up enough.

Silicone spray would dry too quickly IMO, AND it's BAD for paint. Many body shops prohibit it anywhere in the shop, as it causes fisheyes. I suppose if all painting has been done it might work.

I tried the lube that tire shops use, and then a glycerine based solution (a friend's grandkids stuff for blowing bubbles.) The ultimate solution on mine was to trim the dovetail on the windlace so it wasn't so tight. Used a razor knife for that and only cut myself once.

Wire pulling lube has been suggested, which is usually water soluble.

I used a "personal lubricant" on the dovetail rather than in the track. Not sure how effective it was as it was still a struggle.

I think part of the reason nobody complains about the profile of the typically available windlace is that once you have it in place and discover that it does not contact the door you are not willing to experience installing another version in hopes that it will be better.

You’re not making me look forward to installing the windlace in my truck. However, you installed it yourself so that gives me some hope!

Not bragging here, but after prepping everything, it only took me 30 minutes per side to install. Prep is the way.

Mark, can you explain what you did to be so successful.

I agree that prep is important but I don't know how prep can help the area where the dash requires the windlace inside lip to fold back against itself. In my case atleast the track on the cab for the windlace was tight to the dash so the inner lip needed to be forced forward to allow the shape of the windlace to move in the track. As a result I could only get the windlace to move 1/4" or so at a timeonce the bottom end got to the dash area.

Using a radiator hose removal tool, un-pinch, open up that track. Making it looser rather than tighter will make install easier. The track can always be made tighter after install with a hammer and a block of wood. And, if you look at it a bunch, you'll see the factory pinched the ends of the track after install to help retain the rubber. Top to bottom, side to side, both sides, widen that track!

The sliding install is better on fresh paint. Either way, de-grunge, de-friction, de-rust the track with a wire brush, rotary abrasive pad, files, fine sandpaper, pick, whatever you can fit in there. Don't skimp on this part of the process. When you think you're done, do it a second time and catch all the stuff you missed the first time. Attack it like you're prepping it for a world class paint job, whether you're painting or not! For the non painters, this is a good place as any to start the rubber install. For someone who isn't sure, tape/mask around the track and grab a can of your favorite gloss spray can. Gloss slides better than primers, that's for sure. For those doing a full on interior paint restoration, proceed as usual.

At the dash, do the best you can. Opening up the track is better than not opening it up, even if you can't get a brush in there to clean it out.

My lube of choice was Joy Dish Washing liquid. Start with the forward part of the install as it is the toughest having to deal with the dash. Lube the "T" and the track. Start at the top and push down, gravity is your friend. It's been a while so I don't remember the particulars, but if you need to fold rubber near the dash, fold towards you, you are about 2' from the bottom? Grab some lube and lube about 2' of folded rubber flap. Then pour a little on the rub area of the dash. Push and feed until the is an inch or so of rubber coming from the bottom at the floor. Repeat for the back of the door. Make sure there are no twist in your rubber, that it is laid out like it is supposed to sit in the opening.

Now the most difficult part of the install that I found to be. It can be done either way, but always knowing gravity is my friend, I believe this is the way I did it. Hook the bottom of the "T" into the upper track. I'm left handed, so I started on the left side. Roll back the long flap and push the top side on the "T" into the track using the radiator hose tool. I've found that the perfect tool for this job, because it doesn't have as sharp a point and doesn't tear things like other similar tools, is the MAC SW70A. A little pressure with your thumb on the outside while folding the "T" into the track helps. Work it 2-4 Inches at a time.

After the top is in, adjust the sides as necessary, while they still have lube on them, to remove any kinks or wowies at the front and rear turns. Nice thing about doing the top, it allowed time for any excess lube to drip or travel to the floor. Trim the bottoms to where you want them to be. I like trimming them a little long then pushing them up into the track a little incase I stretched a section a little too much.

Get a small chunk of wood or a fat punch, and pinch both sides of all track ends. I believe I also pinched every foot or so. Except for maybe the top section. It should be fine. That involves pulling back the flap and the bulb to get to the track. Be careful when you do this so you're not pulling the "T" out of the track. You worked too hard to get it in there.

Damp cloth to clean up the joy. Then check back a day later to see if you need to clean up more. Lube, along with gravity, is your friend. You can never have too much lube. Don't cheap out when it comes to lube, but don't end up covered in silver like people do when they touch a bottle of anti-seize.

I never installed the complete windlace but I had removed it from the dash to the floor when I redid the cowl kick panel .I reused the track for the windlace and I made out of a piece of scrap metal a piece that would fit in the track with a folded 90 degree tab that you can use to slide it along the track to clean out and open it up . the tab could be tapped with a hammer when the track was tight .

What a very timely thread. Replacing the door windlace is my current project on my one ton. I replaced the door gasket first and that went so smoothly that I thought, "might as well change this nasty looking windlace too!" Knowing what I know now, I might have left them alone. Working solo, I made a few attempts yesterday that all failed. Then I found Mark's tutorial and that was a godsend. Of all the tips and suggestions I found googling etc, his was by far the best. The only thing I would add for dummies like me is, when he says open the track, I took at it as pull up on the "ears" that hold the Tee shape in place. After another failed attempt this morning I spread open the channel as well. This made sliding the rubber down the front and the back way easier and also, using his method along the top edge. Once I did this, it only took me about 45 minutes or so. Thank you Mark!
Now, my corners look like crap and I can't seem to get them looking good by pushing more material toward the corner or pulling it tighter.

Glad I could help!

Bill, my corners are not good either (bunched up and kinked) but I also could not get the kinks worked out.