The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 1946 Chevy 1/2Ton - Moving Radiator Forward

I'm test fitting my radiator support frame and may need to move it forward to make some fan clearance (I don't have a new radiator yet) for my '60 235. Has anyone done this before? I am using the shorter water pump. Do I just need to add a small metal plate to bolt to the frame and then drill a couple holes for the mount? By moving the radiator forward, will there be any issues with mounting the fenders or other front end parts?

I cut the side mounts off the radiator ( '37 truck ) moved the radiator forward and down, then reattached the side mounts. Mine is so far forward, I had to remove the cross bar and remove some sheet metal off the front pan just behind the grill.

Just an issue I had come across with my 46, the PO had put in a newer 235 and it had the newer water pump. They moved the radiator forward ( butchered the support frame ) so they had clearance between the fan and radiator. Problem was when the front clip was bolted on the radiator fill cap was up under the front nose. I had to check water with a small mirror and and try to fill it with a small hose and funnel.
I have it tore down now and have put a adapter plate and short water on and will be moving the radiator back to it's original place.

Another option I'm looking at is the adapter plate to relocate the water pump up 3 inches. I have not wanted to do this, but I think there are some of you that have had success with this method. So now I'm doing some research about this adapter plate.

John, I would use the re-locator plate. It seems like the easiest, most straight forward solution to the problem with the least amount of modification nonsense to deal with. I would not relocate the radiator if I didn't have to. Might as well take advantage of other peoples' tried and true solutions.

I'd also do it before you assemble the front clip rather than waiting to see how it goes and possibly having to do it when the truck is all put together.

Another vote for the adapter plate. It is such a slick modification that it does not look like a modification at all Save your effort for other areas you know you will have.

Dennis

Why not just turn the radiator top tank around 180 degrees so the fill cap will be on the back side? Any good radiator shop can do that in a few minutes.
Jerry

I think I'll order the adapter plate and water pump and go that route. Fingers crossed. Thanks for the input and suggestions.

I recently installed the adapter plate and relocated the short water pump on the 261. not too difficult to do. I also swapped out and put on the harmonic balancer that I got from HRL. So now all my pulleys are the wide version. I do however have a water flow issue that I will ask about in a new thread.

Finally got my water pump and adapter plate. Water pump had instructions, but none with the adapter plate. Is that standard with you guys that have an adapter plate? I would think if I need to drill holes in my engine block, there would be some type of instruction sheet to guide me. I did find some instructions of Deve's Technical Network online, so that will help.

John - You can find the installation instructions for the adapter plate in Stovebolter Pre '68 Dave's (the original adapter designer) blog HERE. The install instructions are found in the lower half of the page. Includes a diagram and should provide you everything you need.

Thanks Dan!

Just test fitting the new water pump and adapter plate and will drill the new holes in the morning. My last setup with alternator had me using a 40 inch fan belt. Anyone have the adapter plate with alternator? If so, what length belt are you using? That can give me a starting point at the parts store.

Member "Brad Allen" posted this reply on the belt needed for this conversion way back in 2008. If using a 5/8" wide belt, he indicated using Dayco# 23425, which has an effective length of 42.5" and a 5/8" width.

He never did come back and provide info on a 1/2" wide belt, but searching through this Dayco Belt Guide, a Dayco# 17425 would offer a 42.5" effective length and 1/2" width to use on the narrower pulleys.

These should get you into the ball park for your belt need I think.

I was heading to NAPA, so I'll see if they have something that might fit. Hope I don't take too many return trips. It took me three trips for the first belt.

If you have a tape measure like seamstresses use, you can position all your pulleys where they will run and wrap the tape around them on the outer edge of the sheaves so you know what size belt to search for.

V belts are generally sized by the inner circumference but if you take your tape with you, you can measure the outside circumference at the store.

Or you can do math involving pi to calculate the inner circumference based on the thickness of the belt.

A piece of large diameter rope, a sharpie, and a box cutter will be a lot more accurate than a tape measure. Then just glue the ends of the rope together if you wish, and head for the parts store!
Jerry

Last time a used a thin rope and it went all the way into the groove, so my first belt was much to short. I thicker rope might do the trick.

Got the new holes drilled and tapped. I was able to mount the water pump to the adapter plate, but I need to pick up a couple bolts tomorrow and finish mounting it to the engine. I did use some thread sealant on the bolts when mounting to the plate.

Autozone sells some really cheap belts, like $4 or so, go buy one thats way to long and cut it to use as a measuring tool. I have a 1/2" belt I use when I need belts. Just wrap it around the pulleys and use a piece of tape to mark where they over lap. It will get you really close to the size you need and is reusable.

Just a word about belt measurements, Gates https://www.gates.com/us/en/power-transmission/v-belts/automotive-v-belts.html and others use the middle of the belt for the size. The effective length is not the same as outer circumference and its not the same as the inner circumference, its halfway between. Parts stores may use either. My cut belt measurement will get you the outer circumference and with some math, you can work out the effective length.

Use the Gates link above to narrow down your search.

One word of caution when using that adapter plate. I believe the drilled and tapped holes end up with a small gap between the plate and the block. Either slip a thin washer in there, or be careful how tight you torque those bolts. I've heard tales of cracked blocks from overtightened bolts. A "SAE" flat washer is smaller diameter than a standard one, and they're available in several thicknesses.
Jerry

The instructions say to only tighten those two bolts to 25lbs, but I'm looking for a combination of washers that will take up that space.

The problem with this gap is that the block is angled in relation to the plate.
One could make a tapered spacer, but I never have done that on the close to 50 I have installed.
As long as you don’t over tighten the bolts you will have no problem.

Mocking up the pump and old alternator adjustment bracket is straight and does not fit. I took the bracket off my 216 and had a couple options to mount it. I can mount it up high on one of those bolts that could use a spacer or on the bolt lower. I could add a thin washer to take up some space on the upper point, but any issues with it being a little loose? The lower mounting point limits the belt adjustment. The bracket will rub and stop the alternator from going any further away from the engine. I'm leaning towards the upper mounting point.

Another question: Is there any issue with putting the adjustment bolt and bracket on the front on the alternator? I mean, as long as it doesn't get in the way of the pulley blades is that an option? I noticed in one of my first pictures the bracket was bent and I had it mounted on the front of the alternator.

Thanks Dave. I'll try to be careful and not over tighten.

John - Nothing wrong with putting the adjuster support bracket on the front of the alternator. Looking at your pictures, you might even consider when you do that, maybe remove the offset end of the bracket just at the end of the main flat section where the first rearward bend is. Drill a new pivot mounting hole in that end and bolt it to the same bolt you show, but on the front side of the water pump. In my minds eye, the flat adjuster bracket will be far enough up and shortened to allow for better alternator adjustment rotation, while staying close enough to the alternator face to stay out of the belt and alternator cooling fan. You might need a washer or two on the water pump end to properly align the bracket to the alternator position, but I think this may be a possible fix for your situation.

Thanks for the ideas Dan!

Well that adapter looks pretty trick. What does this setup get you versus the original pump? Is it so difficult to find/rebuild an example of the old one that the adapter is the solution? Just curious.

If you replace the 216 with a later model 235, the adapter centers the water pump with the radiator. Without it, the water pump sits too low behind the radiator and the top 3 inches of the radiator - the hottest part - gets no fan assisted air flow.

Also, by raising the water pump up a few inches, the fan blades no longer interfere with the crank pulley or bolt. I'm also hoping for a little more clearance with the radiator.

Ahh. Thank you!