The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop Question About Pertronix

I have a question about the Pertronix ignition system. I have no intention of buying one for any vehicle I own. I am just curious about the coil, flamethrower, that they sell or recommend.

Is there something special about it? Is it required for the pertronix system to work? It seems that a normal 12 volt coil would be sufficient.

No, you don't need one to make the pertronix system work. To make that work you need (a) magic (b) a miracle (c) both. Is there something special about it? I don't believe so. I believe it is a common Chinese made coil but seriously overpriced and with a special sticker applied. Yes a 12v coil would be sufficient.

About six months ago a friend sent me a failed pertronix module so I could carefully destroy it and see what is inside and why it doesn't work and hopefully better understand why so many of these go bad. What I got was a device so simple even an eighth grade science student could have come up with it. It consisted of 1--a ring to slip over the distributor cam, magnetized and divided into 8 sections. 2--a very simple Hall effect sensor set in epoxy and joined to a piece of aluminum which served as the mounting piece. Just hilarious to me that this company has been successful at selling this stuff. At best they had $4 or $5 in this part and he had paid over $120 for it. Image below of an example of what I found inside...

Jon answered the coil question. "High" volt coils are a scam generally.

The Pertronix story is a long painful story. Failures, bad PR, bad MFG techniques, changes in instructions and no testing before marketing the original. Just that is worked. No stress, heat vibration, mechanical or electrical stress tests, etc. That was left up to the customer and they improved upon reports. Negative "Reports" that spread thru out all the automotive and boat world. They just didn't know how to run a company in my opinion.
Most stories and failures are from ignitor original, I and II. Those may now be improved. Pertronix did not explain ballast resistor or no ballast resistor very well. Tech calls got different answers. Their units got under ohmed and over ohmed. They sell 3 ohm and 1.5 ohm coils. Users have installed units wrong. User distributors were worn. Pertronix said sold copper plug wires OK, now carbon only. Initially the strong magnets were "glued" on and ripped off, then they were potted in.
The price is up to par with any other consumer product. Some components are bought in bulk at a low Chinese price. You can not figure out the total cost due to unknown component prices, labor costs including benefits, warehouse and distribution costs/shipping, business overhead, packaging, advertising/marketing costs....on and on. Too many SKUs possibly. So $110 may or may not be in a person's budget. It all boils down to if the thing works. I believe the Pertronix III is OK.
The whole idea to consider switching from points to Pertronix is reliability. There are lot's of good and bad reviews. Many DO NOT specify which era of Pertronix, so you can't analyze the data. The warranty must be considered.

I used to say that the Delco Langdon distributor was the best bet. I don't know what they are offering today.

I don't see many complaints about Pertronix III units. But the blogosphere is a tricky Galaxy. Lots of complaints about points reliability and condenser reliability. JonG has some of that fixed with his condenser.

Many of the well known Distributors now sell Pertronix for what that is worth.
Summit: Warranty
PerTronix Flame-Thrower coils and industrial distributors are under a 90-day warranty against defects. Digital rev limiters, Second Strike products, billet distributors, and HEI products are under a 1-year warranty against defects. Ignitor and Ignitor II products are under a 30-month (2.5-year) warranty against defects. Flame-Thrower spark plug wires are under a limited lifetime warranty against defects.

Speedway: Instructions

Do your own research to be sure.

The GM HEI pickup coils are available at any corner parts store, and they can be adapted to a stock stovebolt distributor with a lathe and the average machining skills learned in a high school machine shop. The GM trigger module can be mounted to an aluminum heat sink anywhere on the vehicle, including under the dash, away from engine heat and weather concerns. I see no reason whatsoever to spend outrageous sums of money on a piece of junk with proprietary parts when a better electronic ignition system has been on the market for about 50 years.
Jerry

When was the last time you saw a high school machine shop, Jerry?

I have never actually seen a school that had one, though I am old enough to remember people talking about them going away.

Maybe that is why I have 3 lathes and two mills in my garage...

I taught machining, both general purpose, and automotive, off and on for 30-something years, at both the high school and state trade school levels. Ditto for welding, and collision repair. The high school where I retired in 2011 had 23 - - - -count 'em- - - -different trade and industrial courses, including a print shop, electronics, HVAC, commercial art, building trades, drafting, and commercial foods. The building covered over 10 acres under one roof, on three floors, and the campus was over 100 acres. You're right- - - -they're all gone now.
Jerry

Read 55 Dude's instructions and the picture captions. Click

Example Dizzy

I'm just posting what I think is an option, not sure of accuracy. This may be what Jerry is speaking of.....or near.

That's a 1963-up 6 cylinder distributor for a 230/250/292, etc. I convert the regular stovebolt items to use an HEI trigger setup- - - -the ones where the vacuum advance rotates the whole housing.
Jerry

.
I bought a Jegs house brand small cap distributor for my 454/‘66 C10 project. Turns out it has the PerTronic 1 module . The instructions say to use a 1.5 ohm coil rated at 40,000volts ( That’s for a v8 installation). They recommend a 3.0 ohm / 40,000 volt coil for 6 cyl applications. I bought the recommended 1.5 ohm/40000 volt flamethrower from Amazon Prime for 36 bucks, delivered to my home. I’m sure any brand would work if it met specifications

Sadly, most trades programs and facilities in high schools have gone the way of the Dodo. My kids both went to Issaquah High, and the academics were fine. However the 'trades' consisted of a hobbyist level wood shop and that's about all. They just want kids to go into finances, basically. Because heaven knows, that's what America needs.. more people who only know how to rub money together to make more money.

My high school had a wood shop, a metals shop, a well equipped (for 1987) print shop, auto shop, and a pretty respectable electronics lab. And that was in the high school that fed the most wealthy LDS (Mormon) ward in the world at that time. So, even among the wealthy back then the trades had value.

I think the trades are starting to make a comeback, though. Right now in Seattle, it's easily possible to get a job flipping burgers at [censored]'s starting at $23 an hour with full healthcare, vacation, tuition assistance and daycare assistance. Pretty amazing what a family owned company can do when they're not feeding shareholders first and foremost, but anyway.. In six months at [censored]'s, you'll be making more money there than you would using that expensive Bachelor's you just got so you could test software on a no-benefit six month contract for Amazon or Google.

Kids are seeing that HVAC guys clear over $100K pretty fast and working with your hands beats manning a call center while waiting for it to be outsourced overseas. Also, the tech sector is really decades behind in unionizing, versus the trades. Linemen, plumbers, sparkies, carpenters, HVAC, automotive.. unions offer security, benefits, pensions.

Any instructions on doing this modification available? Sounds like a great mod!

I'll get around to writing a tech tip on the procedure, hopefully soon. It involves mounting a GM pickup coil to the stovebolt distributor housing and fabricating a triangular reluctor from plain steel plate to trigger it. The GM HEI module is mounted remotely, even under the dash away from engine heat and weather concerns. A fancy coil isn't needed- - - -just a MOPAR or Ford electronic ignition item that resembles a stock stovebolt coil will work as long as it has the right primary winding resistance (about 0.5 Ohms). Right now I'm dealing with some family medical issues that have me pretty much limited on shop time and other projects. There is some machining and fabrication involved that might be a little beyond the backyard tinkerer's capabilities.
Jerry

Re: Pertronix

Seems to me that some company should be capable of making this concept (points elimination) robust and reliable. Doesn’t seem like rocket surgery.

Bartimaus rightly warns that the interwebs are a questionable place to gather solid information. However, the “FAST XR700” version of this system seems to be more highly regarded than the Pertronix….if you judge by reviews and random folks posting on discussion forums.

I have no intentions of trying that system, but I’d love to hear from someone here who has.

The Fast XR700 product seems to be unavailable...from all suppliers. Don't know why or what the deal is. I also don't know of anyone who has tried it. Based on the Pertronix stuff (and the questionable supply/ongoing operations of the Fast XR700) I'd be cautious, though. As Jerry has said there are other options...they just require some extra work and machining.

Around 6 to 8 months ago I showed everyone here how I modified a Chinese distributor made for the 230/250 Chevy engines to work on the 235. And it does work very well. I'm using one now and the modification wasn't difficult at all. Mine has the coil in cap but you can also use standard GM no-coil caps (all of these were based on GM products) if you want a smaller looking distributor. You can replace the guts using GM parts if you wish, also. Although the one I'm using was bought in 1997 and is still working just fine.

Unavailable. Must be so awesome they can’t keep it in stock.

Yes, I'm certain that is the case. Probably sold them all to those folks offering lake lots on the moon.

Let's see- - - - -we seem to have a choice between using a system that GM developed over 50 years ago- - - -with untold millions of them having worked properly for untold billions of miles- - - - -or trying to acquire one "kit" that has a spotty reliability record or another one that seems to be unobtanium. All because people are too lazy or unimaginative to do the kind of tinkering and adapting that has been the hallmark of American ingenuity for generations. That's a pretty shameful state of affairs! "Your mileage may vary!"
Jerry

BUT…….

Would it work if you weren’t using that red distributor cap?

It's just a sign of the times Jerry.
People tend to not want to tinker with anything, or fabricate an HEI for a Stovebolt engine, so they are looking for simple screw on solution like Pertonix.
I found myself falling into that hole many years ago. First it was my frustration with voltage regulators, so I ditched the generator and the regulator and went with an internally regulated alternator.
Then I grew frustrated with points and condensers, especially when it became common place to get stuck with bad new in the box condensers and bought a Pertronix unit. It worked great until it melted the plastic end of my coil off when the foreign made ignition switch stayed on all night in spite of fact of the key being in my pocket.
Very recently, I have come full circle and I'm "going back to the future" and building a completely stock '52 truck.
My first ever AD was 100% stock and I miss it.
If I have bad luck finding good condensers, I have one of Jon G's condensers to throw in there (a recent pickup from a Jethro swindle trade scheme thwarted. He was out of watermelons so he had to sweeten the deal).

Carl did you mean to say “screw up” rather than screw on?

The red distributor cap makes the spark hotter and I think my hair is getting thicker. Probably from the testosterone the red cap emits.

Do they have a sticker as well? That boosts horsepower, right?

The sticker is in Mandarin. It looks like this: 玛嘎

Yes, I think by 13.4% or so.

Kevin,
Yes. Synonymous and interchangeable in my experience.

Don’t go putting yellow spark plugs wires on it. You’ll be melting the tires clean off the thing at every stop light.

Lets get back on topic here folks.

Yes - - and here's my "Pertronix story"

I Do have a stock Chevy (but not a stovebolt - - it's a 69 Nova ; 250ci , matching numbers (to my car) engine . . . with the only difference from someone else's car . . . is that I have Factory A/C.
Well the old A-6 Compressor does in fact set just 'over my distributor' .
I can see my Distributor . . . . but, that's about all. I am still using the stock L 6 dist , the stock (I think) ign coil (it has been there since I bought th' car) . It IS hard to do anything with any "points" .

Exactly - why I choose the Pertronix HEI set-up .
SO, back in 1996 (my car was bought back in mid 96) . . . . then, = June 6, 1996 (I wrote the date on the box) ; I heard about the "Pertronix HEI Kit" ; so I bought that kit.
I do drive my car = (alot) , and too this day - it runs great , starts easy, and goes good . . . . . and, I do have some "Bolt-ons" = Offy intake & Holley 390cfm carb ; using my stock L 6 exhaust manifold - -
at this time.. . . but, insides are all stock stuff.
Today , I really don't think I have ever 'removed my dist cap; since I did my install' . I'm pretty sure (I haven't removed my cap . . because that almost requires me too remove my a/c comp, to get in-there !
I think at that time the Pertronix Unit, was the 1st version , of that product. Later on I did hear about the : "you need to up-grade your distributor + wire , too a full 12volts, for HEI" .
OK - - but, I've never done that , either. So, I can't "Bash th' Pertronix unit" = maybe I just really got the 'good unit' - I really can't say.

I have also thought about buying a second HEI (Pertronix unit) ; being that - if my ignition does ever "fail me" , I might be stuck along some hy-way. (for all the "BAD" talk that I've heard - I do now carry a (good) ,
complete stock distributor in my trunk - and extra points - cap , rotor, & condenser. . . . . It may take me a short time , changing things out ................ but, I can still make-it-home.
I even , stayed All Stock, for a long time ; before changing things. Then, also - I really wanted too "shift gears" ................................ which is when I became friends with Jay, and bought & installed my
93 GMC , T 5 tranny. Now, I 'really like driving my 250 , car. Plus, kind of why I'm over here = (I can relate) ; because so many of you 'Bolters' are still using u'r L 6 engines.

That's "my story" ............... I'm "stickn' too it" . .

Thanks , jim

now - - I may need too go & buy a Lotto ticket .................

Pertronix has a similarly dodgy rep in the vintage motorcycle world. They have been abandoned long since in favor of several other kits for Norton, Triumph, BSA, et al. (Boyer, Britespark and others) Unfortunately, the world of kits for Stovebolts is limited as you all know. Langdon's HEI kit sounds like a winner but it came along after I'd come up with my solution. I don't know if he's still selling it.

My solution about 20 years ago was MSD, which is a capacative discharge unit triggered by whatever you can come up with. I used the original points less the condenser as a trigger. Do NOT get across the secondary voltage. There is enough energy to kill.

In an abundance of caution I kept the condenser in place and tucked the wire out of the way. I keep the original coil-to-distributor wire in the glove box and a spare set of NOS points in there too. In the last 100,000 miles I've not had to use either backup; NO Failures. That said, if I let the truck sit in rainy Seattle for a couple of months, I have to pop the dizzy cap off (a black one) and dress the points with a few strokes of a point file to clean off the oxide.

I keep good spark plugs set to about 0.040" to save the wires from high voltage breakdown. MSD recommends 0.060" but that runs the secondary voltage up too high, I think. One can only get 7mm wire for these not 8mm. In 20 years use, I've replaced two sets of wires, several caps and rotors, more spark plugs than I can remember but probably a couple dozen. And I've replaced the points once when I forgot to grease the cam.

The MSD unit was expensive then and probably more so now but you get what you pay for in this case.