The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Tons 'o Fun brake question for my 1951 3800 long bed

Hello, a quick brake question. I just boght an untouched 1951 3800 long bed. It is in very good survivor condition. It is being shipped to me and am trying to source needed items to refresh its diveline and brake systems. It has Huck brakes. Are the front brake pads the same as the rear? I am assuming it has the 12" shoes as it is untouched. I found some NOS 12" shoes but they say they are from a 1951 1 1/2 ton model and am unsure if the are correct for my front brakes. They look exactly the same as the rear shoes which I already got and are 12". Thank you for any help on this! I am sure I will have other questions and will post pictures of it when I get a chance. Thanks again!

As far as I knew, a 1951 3800 1 ton truck only had a 14 inch rear brake option
If you found 12 inch drums on the back end then it is not original equipment.

Edit:
5.809 drum assy., brake, front and rear

47-52 1 Ton front SRW 3847129 (12 inch ID - 8 stud)
47-52 1 Ton front DRW 3847698
47-52 1 Ton rear 609808 --> 3754313 (14" brakes) (as of 1959 part substitution)

according to the parts manuals, the 1951 3800 1 ton front and rear drums are unique to that model size for 1947-52 years and not shared with any other vehicle.
these drums are not reproduced and pads are getting more difficult to find every day.
-s

2ManyTrucks. Thank you for the reply. I bought a set of shoes that stated they were for a 3800 for the rear brakes. I bought a set of NOS 14" rear drums on ebay ($60 for the pair!) . The NOS shoes I bought fit perfectly inside them. They stated they were for a 1946-1952 rear 1 ton or 1 1/2 ton front brakes. Sorry for the poorly written question. So the front brake shoes are 12" x2? Thank you for the help. This is new territory for me. I am used to trucks in the 1960's

Here's an excerpt from the 1951 Vehicle Information Kit about brakes.

You can see that the 3800 had 12x2 inch front brakes and 14x2-1/2 inch rear brakes.

Tonoffun,
I’m so happy for you that you found nos rear brake drums on eBay for your truck
You mentioned “They stated they were for a 1946-1952 rear 1 ton or 1 1/2 ton front brakes.”
That statement I’m not sure how that could be possible because the bolt and hub for the front of the 1-1/2 ton truck is larger and used only 5 large bolts to attach the front wheels and all 10 holes when mounting the wheel on be rear as a dually.

Does anyone on the forum know if the 1 ton rear 14 inch drum was used on some of the 1-1/2 and up models?
Non of my parts lists cover the larger trucks
Thanks
-s

2ManyTrucks, I scrounged through my various Master Parts Book resources and couldn't find detailed drum dimensions for what was used on 1-1/2Ton truck. I did find Chevy dealer pamphlets with brake specifications like this for 1952 Chevy Trucks. A snapshot of the brake specs page is below. In looking at all the available pamphlets from 1946-52, they all show the 1-1/2 ton and up trucks shared 14" x 2" front brake drums. Not the same as the 1 Ton 14" x 2-1/2" rear drums. I think this answers your question.

Thanks for that confirmation gdads51
I needed to know incase it was another source of those super rare 1 ton drums
But it is not
-s

Tonoffun -- A couple of thoughts to file away in your thought box for future reference:

1. Keep your ears open to hear of anyone scrapping/giving away/selling 3800 axle parts, especially the earlier ones with Huck brakes. I have two complete sets of drums and brake parts (in addition to the ones actually on the truck) that I've collected over the years from guys either upgrading their trucks to Bendix brakes or they bought an AD 3800 just for the sheet metal.

2. Those brake shoes can be relined. Any shop that relines brakes or clutches will probably be able to do it.

3. IF you have anyone else (like a shop) do your brakes in the future, don't let them turn your drums. If you have a lip or a ridge, you can let them remove that. Or if they are out of round ... ? .... If they are that out of round they need to be turned, they may not be useable anyway. but other than that, don't let them remove perfectly good metal (and wear out your drums faster). scoring and grooving is fine. Some will argue that it actually adds braking surface to makes your brakes work even better. Not sure I subscribe to that theory ... but it sounds good.

4. You can drive your truck in modern traffic traffic with Huck brakes. I do. However, Huck brakes do have their limitations so drive accordingly.

5. Should you decide to go Bendix, the upgrade isn't hard to do ... once you've assembled the parts "All" you have to do is find a Bendix brake equipped 1-ton in the junk yard and take everything from the backing plates out (including the backing plates). Easy bolt up job. Hard part is assembling all the parts.

John

On a few occasions in the past, I have adapted complete brake assemblies- - - -backing plates, shoes, hardware, and drums- - - - -to vehicles they were not intended to fit in the first place. This was mostly done on race cars, but the same concept can be applied to street machines. Brakes don't care what kind of vehicles they stop- - - -the drums, shoes, and wheel cylinders just have to be able to work together and be capable of stopping the vehicle effectively. When those drums become unavailable, think outside the box and adapt something different!
Jerry

I thought about pulling the Bendix brakes off a 67 3/4 ton with the HO54 Eaton axle. I has 13X3 brakes but the rub is that the hubs are different too so if I took the hubs for my rig the wheels wouldn't fit inside the fenders which is too close anyway. The same issues exist if you swap a post-72 corporate 14-bolt axle. Although, Grigg has worked out that a chassis-cab dual-wheel axle with single wheels on it will have the same track has the original HO72 (see Tons of Fun Forum). In years past, I have seen a number of 3800 trucks sitting in bone yards with all the brake parts stripped.

There are shops that reline drums, mostly Pontiac and Buick and Corvette aluminum drums that had iron liners. I inquired of one shop and was told they would have to have the drum to see if they coule do it. Fourteen inches was at the limit of their equipment.

I wonder if the 14x2-1/2" brake drums are the same as the brake drums in that size that I just spent $800 buying.. if so then $60 for a pair is the lude high deal of the century!!

Relining a drum shouldn't be terribly difficult, if a machine shop has a lathe and a tool post grinder big enough to swing the drum on center. That would require about a 16" lathe at a minimum for a 14" drum. The liner could be made from a spool of schedule 80 steel pipe, which would then be shrink-fitted into the bored-out drum. Finding a machine shop with the right equipment and an oldtimer willing to spend the time setting up the equipment and doing the job would be a lot more difficult than actually doing the work.

A heavy duty brake drum lathe such as the AMMCO I ran at my school shop for many years could be set up to produce the liners, with a little bit of creative tinkering.
Jerry

Good idea, Jerry.

The ditch company is going to enclose the ditch water in pipe next summer. That's the only thing I can think of that could use pipe that big and there is a machine shop and fabricator that bought the machines from the Corp of Engineers who were finished with a dam project. They have some BIG machine tools.

@Hotrod Lincoln I like your can-do attitude. I was now years old when I learned it would be possible to reline an actual brake drum! Also makes me a little more optimistic about making a new parking brake drum for my bus. It would be nice to have smooth park brake actuation.

Along the same train of thought (yep, mine derails pretty frequently!) a piece of 3/16" thick flat bar could be rolled into the proper diameter, welded together with TIG, and machined into a pretty accurate sleeve. Press fit it into a bored-out drum, anchor the pieces together with a few flat head Allen screws, and finish machine/grind the sleeved drum to the proper OEM diameter. There's no real need to start out with a full circle spool of pipe. All of that could be done with a heavy duty brake drum lathe. To roll up a liner for a 14" drum, it would require a piece of flat bar about 44" long.
Jerry