The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Early 'Bolts (1916-1936 1st Half) 1927 1 ton questions

Comteplating purchase of this old Chevy truck that’s did assembled. Supposedly all they’re just not assembled and they tell me it’s a 1927 but it has a 6 cylinder. Engine is locked. Thought those didn’t come out till 29 or so. Cab appears good. All I’ve seen of this truck is what’s pictured. Rest is located at another location.

Wrenchman. We have a '27 1-ton that is a 4-banger. Your cab looks a little like ours. That story is a little here and there but HERE IS one thread in the Project Journals area.

There are a few who can tell you much more. Stay tuned.

Thanks for the reply, that was a nice read!!

HERE IS some more reading. Here's where John got the cab on. Has some other images of hardware in that thread.

That looks like a GMC front wheel... Not Chev!

I see what you mean since you mentioned it. Looked at some pics and looks like the Chevy has more spokes and are wooden. Trying to learn since I'm new at this.

Wrenchman, You might be interested in THIS THREAD tucked in Making a Stovebolt Bed. It's from another '27 guy. In there, you'll find Termite_Delight's 1928 Chevy. Oh heck. I copied it here.

Checking with the Modertor to see if that who thread should move into Early Trucks.

John here. Judging *only* by my own truck and limited experience ... I don't think that's a '27 Chevy 1-ton we're looking at. I agree that it could be a GMC of a slightly newer vintage. Again, not sure, but that engine block doesn't look to me like the Chevy 194 (1stGen Stovebolt 6)... but I could be wrong.

The cab looks like the wider all-wood cab. Interesting (to me, anyway) seat details. VERY helpful for me.

What might be your intention for this truck? Original or something modified?

As you read, Peggy and I have taken on a project like that ... A lot of parts, some duplicates, some that don't even go to a truck ...

Just know that you have gotten into a "Long Game" ...

Welcome to the club!!

John

Also ... Here's what the front part of the frame looks like on Peggy's '27. Yours looks significantly different and more rugged -- again, suggesting a GMC rather than a Chevrolet. And bigger than a 1-ton.

The cylinder casting that BOLTS to the crankcase definitely rules out Chevy. Coincidentally, GMCs all the way up to the big 503 cubic inch from the mid-1950s had that same design. GMC was built to be rebuilt, repeatedly. Chevy was sort of a "one and done" production- - - -with limited overhaul capability.
Jerry

There are some 1920s Buick engines that were OHV 6 cylinder, with a cylinder that bolted to crankcase like that. Hard to say without a closer pic if that’s what you have.

I don’t know what engines were used in super early, heavy duty, GMC. They did use some engines from other lines in their first couple versions of half ton trucks….flatheads from Olds and Pontiac.

Found more parts to the old truck. Owner confirmed it’s a 27 GMC according to the title. Owner had doors completely rebuilt by a wood craftsman.

Wrenchman, Just in case it may help in confirming the ID of your truck, check out this article I came across this morning Gary's 1927 GMC Firetruck. There are some pictures in there that seem to confirm your radiator surround and wheels look to match with his truck. It also talks to a Buick I-6 power plant which may be what your truck has???

Wrenchman, do you have a cylinder head for the engine? I am presuming it has to be an OHV arrangement from the look of the block.

If one goes searching for pics of 1920s inline 6 cylinder engines, you can find a small handful that have cylinders which bolt to the crankcase. However, nearly all of them were flatheads. The Buick might have been the only OHV, removable cylinder, arrangement that I could find. There might be others, that’s just all I could find that reasonably resembled yours.

I thought maybe you had something even more oddball like: Diamond T, REO, or such. None of those theories turned up anything quite like what you have there. Given GDad’s lead, I think I’d chase the Buick engine theory until you disprove it.

Side note - I’m sure some good documentation of these large trucks from that era exists. But I suspect the “vintage” of the dudes, means that more of it is on paper than on the interwebs. Finding just the right guy(s) with specific knowledge of that specific truck, is gonna be a huge help.

The article Dan linked about the old fire truck references a book called “The First Century of GMC Trucks.”

https://www.motorologist.com/wp-content/uploads/GMC_Truck_History-century.pdf

I’m not sure if this is the whole thing, but you’ll start seeing references to the Buick engines starting in the section on the 1925 trucks. Looks like they used them for several years thereafter.

Great article!!

That did look like a good info piece. However, when I went down to his footnotes, and linked on the first one, something spazed my computer and locked it up. Never a good thing.
I was hoping to add the PDF in his post. So, I guess the link will have to do it. Maybe it won't affect others computer.

Looking at the pictures of the block deck, it seems like there are big crescent shaped cutouts, like the deck is part of the combustion chamber shape and the pistons don't come all the way up. Is that what's really happening? I've never seen an engine like that, and I've laid eyes on a few old timers in my day.

Still looking for the cylinder head! AND other parts. This old guy has parts scattered over several buildings.

Wrenchman, why not post in Truck Parts Wanted in the Swap Meet. Worth a try...

John M mentioned “long game” in his post. His project has that feel in a much more common (relatively speaking) truck.

Unsolicited free advice: You’re going to have to make some decisions around goals for your project:

1) Keeping the drivetrain absolutely correct - I’d consider this a very, very long game. Unless you stumble across the missing engine parts and they just miraculously work as-is.

2) Keeping drivetrain “sort of” correct - that article suggests GMC was using variants of the Buick six up until at least 1930. This would open up some more possibilities, but still likely take a long time to piece together a working drivetrain.

3) Just get it on the road/ going “modern” - “Modern” in your case might mean a GMC six from the 1940s or 1950s. Would take some adaptation, but you can probably find a running version on FB marketplace in just a few weeks if searching. They are scarce, but they exist.

––––––-

There are no wrong answers. It’s your truck. Looks like the wood portions of the cab and the chassis are a great starting point, regardless which way you decide to go.

I’ll be following along. Cool project.

Sorry I worded that poorly. I meant I was still looking thru buildings and barns that current owner has looking for parts for the 27 since truck was complete when he purchased it. All the parts are in his possession just trying to dig through a lot of “Stuff”.

Wrenchman, I have a feel for what you are going through. I'm still trying to get my project sorted out. They are puzzles and when you get them already disassembled ... Its a challenge just determining if you actually have all the pieces, let alone how they go back together.

Check out the engine pictures in this 1927 Buick Master Six ad- - - - -looks like a pretty close match.1927 Buick Master

Jerry

Thanks for posting a link to that article. After seeing the info tag on the engine in the article I pulled up a pic of the engine in the truck. And can now almost clearly see the Buick name on it. Before I thought it read “Burb” but instead it reads”Buick”! Now to just locate the head and other parts.

If you don't find it, try putting a want ad in Hemming's Motor News. Now that you know which engine you're looking for, there's bound to be a collector out there somewhere with some spare parts available. You might even find a complete engine in running shape.
Jerry

Wrenchman, Below is screenshot from an out of stock 1927 GMC T40-T50 advertisement that has a very detailed illustration of the Buick I6. From what I've read, that engine for the larger trucks was the 274ci model, while the engine used in the T20 1 Ton is noted to have the 207ci Buick I6 (from Gary's 1927 Fire Truck article in my reply above).

There are some 1927 Buick engine pictures in this AACA thread that may be helpful in the future.

Also came across this original 1927 Buick manual that may be of interest and could provide some additional info on your engine too. Best of luck on locating all the parts and pieces of the truck!

Is that the generator that bolts up to the back side of the timing cover? If so….is it gear driven?

It looks like the generator, the water pump, and possibly the distributor share a common drive- - - -most likely off the timing gear for the camshaft.
Jerry

So weird, and cool.

If you look at the ad Dan posted, it speaks of a “ventilated crankcase.” Looks to me like the rear end of that same drive is operating some sort of air pump or such that is pulling vapors from crankcase. Pulling it straight out to atmosphere.

That's the water pump. I've worked on a few industrial engines that do the same thing, as well as Nash inline sixes from the early 1950s.
Jerry

Weird!

Well I ended up making the deal and purchasing the truck and brought it home this evening. Ended up finding the head but still missing the manifolds and carb . We’ll see what happens. Anyone have Buick Standard engine or parts lying around as we have made a determination that it came from the factory with a Buick standard overhead valve 6 cylinder engine.

Started by taking a look at the steering column as the throttle and spark levers were frozen. Freed up those two levers and thought I’d change the steering gear box fluid. Any idea on what type fluid to put back in. Didn’t get hardly any out and it was black and nasty. Can’t find a repair manuals for it either or I wouldn’t be asking the question.

The trick lube most stovebolters use on steering boxes is John Deere "corn head grease". It's about the consistency of honey, so it flows well enough to lubricate, but it's too thick to seep out of some pretty sloppy clearances found on older steering boxes.
Jerry

Thanks, that was my first choice but thought you more experienced guys might have another choice of lube instead.

Any idea thoughts on where to purchase some shop/repair manuals?

Wrenchman,

There are some early vehicle parts vendors out there, and between Rustoholic and I we can probably put together a list for you. Pretty iffy if they will have anything for you but who knows?

As you are discovering, the restoration process on these ... more mature ... vehicles is a long game. The actual wrench turning is the easy part. Finding information is pretty hard .... and finding parts ... well, that's what turns this game from "Go Fish" into three dimensional chess.

I doubt *anyone* is reprinting the manual for that truck. Check ebay and all the other usual on-line suspects.

While you do that, also go over to our old friend Keith Hardy's excellent site for old vehicle manuals.

If this were easy, everyone would be doing it.


John

Thanks for the reference and yes it could’ve a long wait on finding parts. Takes a lot of patience.

Wrenchman, Here are a couple of possible resource books I found (all Buick that coincides with your engine) that may be of some use at least in that department.

Reproduction 1927 Buick Shop manual w/1928 Supplement

1927 Buick Book of Parts - Series 115

1927 Buick Book of Parts - Series 120 & 128

I also stumbled across this Antique Engine forum that had a thread with several pictures of 1928 GMC T20 restoration work that might have some useful info too.

Need to get in and see what’s going on with the brakes as four new relined brake shoes came with the truck. I’m thinking previous owner took them off and had them relined and never got around to reinstalling them. Do I remove the large nut in the center or the eight nuts just outside of center. Hopefully all the brake hardware is still there cause it’s not in any of the parts boxes I have! This is on the rear axle as truck only has rear brakes.

Forgot the picture

Wrenchman ... we're not answering because none of us reading this probably know. Maybe someone will come along who knows.

Maybe try taking the rest of the 8 off and see what comes off?

I suggest the first thing to try is to take the large nut off the center. I believe this nut keeps the wheel and drum onto the axle. I suspect the eight carriage bolts keep the spokes and drum together. The nuts should be inside the brake drum.

The wheel and brake drum should come off, exposing the brake shoes and other hardware that would be covered by the drum.

If the wheel does not come off easily, you might need a wheel puller that screws onto the hub cap threads and has a bolt in the center that would push on the end of the axle. This is the setup that I'm familiar with on the old Chevy trucks. After screwing the puller onto the hub threads, crank the bolt down to contact the axle, make it a little tight, and give the end of the bolt a whack with a small sledge hammer. At least, that's the process I used on my old Chevy trucks. Below is a pic of my wheel/hub puller.

Figure out what thread size you have and then look for one that fits on ebay.

Dean

Wrenchman, in case you can't see Rustoolic's signature line*, I may want to see that he knows what he's talking about. Dean is a "go to" wrencher for us and our '27 1-ton.

Dean 'Rustoholic' Meltz
Lurch: 1927 1-Ton Chevy Cattle Truck
Old and ugly is beautiful! -- The Saga
Lurch's Gallery
Justin: 1928 Chevrolet AB Canopy Express
In the Stovebolt Gallery


* People using a cell phone are probably not seeing the signature lines, which is too bad. Can't see the left hand column either.

Thanks Rustoholic for the advice. Will be trying it that way and may have more questions for you in the future.

Thanks Peggy M, Yes I can see the signature line on my laptop and yes I read up on Lurch and Justin. Good reading right there!!!

As an aside, later models of these rigs came with front brakes, and I wonder if it would be possible to retro-fit that feature? It would be a big help for any one of these intended for driving of more than parade duty.

Rear axle bearing with looks to be grease zerks on backside of backing plate

Those type of 'grease' fittings showing in your photo are called Alemite fittings. I think they switched over to zerk fittings in the early 1930s.

I remember a judging issue at a VCCA car show where two 1932 cars had an identical number of points and the tie breaker came down to the type of grease fittings. One had zerks, the other had Alemite. The judges determined that the one with the zerks was not correct, so the car with the Alemites won best of class. ;-) But, this is slightly off topic.

I use high temp bearing grease for these bearings. On Lurch, there are grease cups (not grease fittings), so I just filled the grease cup and turn them down once per year or so.

The original outer oil seal was made of felt. I switched it out for an SKF 16404 neoprene oil seal. My main reason for the swap was to keep the grease out of the brake area.

There might be an inner seal too, but I never dug in that far to find out. I figure that if a little bearing grease gets mixed up in the rear axle oil, that's not a bad thing.

I suggest carefully measuring the diameter of the axle where the seal contacts it. Then go to a local bearing house with the axle measurement, the oil-seal housing, and the old felt seal. They should be able to find you a neoprene seal that drops right into the old space that held the felt seal.

Cheers, Dean

There's an Alemite grease gun hanging in the garage at my Dad's (now passed). It has slots that engage the pins sticking out the side of the fittings.

PM me if interested in acquiring it. I'll be heading down to visit my mom in the next month or so.

Thanks for the grease gun offer but I have accessibility to that style gun with some locals.

Thanks to the advice of others on this site I had a friend with a lathe make a hub/wheel puller and finally was able to remove a stubborn rear wheel. Axle shaft has considerable in and out play/movement. Parts book shows an axle plug on each axle but none to be found. Any idea on what I could use for a plug to reduce the play? Number 46.

Wrenchman, Your 1st pic appears to show the axle with the "plug" still present in the end of the axle from what I can see (compared to the parts book diagram). Below is a pic from a an ebay ad offering what is said to be a 1927-28 3/4 & 1 Ton truck axle shaft. It appears in this pic that the plug is absent from the axle being offered for sale. Maybe nothing is actually missing on yours??? Without knowing if the plug is meant to establish axles end play (I have no resources on the axle disassembly/assembly and set up), I can't offer any more help on that topic. Sorry. Perhaps Dean (Rustoholic) can offer some more insight into the axle setup???

The short answer is that I don't know the answer to the 'plug' question.

Many years ago (when I had more hair), I relined Lurch's brakes and in the process, took the rear axles out in order to replace the outer axle seal because the grease from the outer bearings totally invaded the brake area.

I replaced the outer felt seal with a new neoprene one (SKF 16406).

I don't remember seeing anything like the plug near the splines and I'm sure I was not aware enough at that time to test if the shafts had in and out slop.

I sent an email with a link to this discussion to a couple of guys I know that have '27 and '28 Chevy one ton trucks. Hopefully they will chime in.

Cheers, Dean

Just finished the rear differential this past weekend. Ended up welding the end of the axle shaft then grind and fit. Kept doing the grind and fit until I had about ten thousands end play. Turned out pretty nice and was able to get the brakes replaced. Just need to get he wheels back on now. Thanks to all who helped by answering my questions. Had a friend with a lathe make me a wheel puller, worked real slick!

Great to hear you have made progress. Thanks for coming back and letting us know!

Rear end pretty much done. Replaced inner and outer axle seals and pinion seal. Inner seal seals off the gear oil from reaching the rear wheel/axle bearing. Outer seal contains the wheel bearing grease to that area and off the brakes. Looked to be the original leather seals that were dried out and shrunken. Replaced with modern rubber lip seals. Same deal on the front wheel bearings. Replace one outer and one inner bearing and new seals. Interesting the rear gear ratio is 7:71 to 1. I guess that’s why there’s a warning on the dash that top speed not to exceed 35MPH.

More pics

Uses CV joint style driveshaft and two brake shoes per side. One for service brake and one for emergency brake. Previous owner had already had the shoes relined and I found them in a box. Had to resort to hardware store springs as original were non existent.

Located another engine and it moved under its own power for the first time in over 54 years

Pics

Previous owner called and told me they found the original wooden bed for the truck tucked away in a very remote corner of a building that had been covered up for decades. Got it home now!

Wow - Both great achievements and milestones into getting the truck going. Crazy how the original bed was found and now able to rejoin the truck. Keep us posted on future updates.

Now have the cowl on and switched back to updraft carb as previous engine owner had installed a chinese downdraft carb.

So it looks like you just inverted the intake to get things started back to what it should have been.

Did you already have the updraft carburetor, or did you have to find one?

Glad to see progress continues.

Used a Marvel carb off a 1950s Ford tractor as they are easy to get parts for and at reasonable prices, easy to work on and don't need to continually be adjusted.
As far as the intake manifold just flipped it upside down, now it's in the original position.

Finally got around to setting the cab on! Slow progress but progress nonetheless the less!

Nice! I gotta admit to being a bit green with envy on your shop space and equipment to support the project.

Keep us posted on further updates!

I’m pretty Blessed to have a farmer neighbor that gives me use of their telehandler whenever I have need of it!!