The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay 6 volt turn indicators ... quite a dilemma

John, do you want me to post the wiring diagram for my setup? I know bartamos would be interested.

Yes, he does.

Yes, he does.

In the meantime... Worked on the front marker lights yesterday. To recap, the objective is to make the original marker lights act as both a marker light as well as a turn signal. While still on 6 volts. And using the Signal Stat 700 switch.

Nice of the Chevy engineers to make the socket removable ...

After removing the pigtail, I was able to press the new socket (two contacts for the marker light/brake bulb) I got from Classic onto the original socket -- the base of the new socket was just big enough to be pressed on the old socket. The old socket needed a little collapsing to get started, but then it pressed on ok. You have to be careful with the pigtail base as it is not fixed in the socket and may get out of alignment. The new assembly is too long to fit back to the original screw hole. I drilling a new hole to mount the assembly further to one side to fit, as in the images below. This also leaves the original screw hole as a hole for the additional wire

The original socket bracket requires a little bending to get the angle correct so the bulb doesn't interfere with the lens, not make contact with the housing.

I'll also be painting the interior of the housing a gloss white.

So far, so good ...

Good idea. That's Tech Tip worthy.

Whoa ... Thanks Bart!

We'll see if it actually works in the end, first, though ...

I don't know what finishes I see on the original parts, but as you know, the new socket barell has to contact old socket barell on bare metal for ground. Then bracket has to carry ground to light housing and out to truck chassis.
No paint in some places, no old plating or corrosion.

Yep -- Already accounted for and bench tested. I think if I ever have to replace a bulb, I will have to disassemble the entire housing ... So, no points for "elegant solution" there ...

Those sockets you got are pretty large. I was able to find ones (from that online purveyor of quality Chinese crap) that were basically the same size as the original, which I removed from the bracket and tacked the new ones in place (good electrical conductivity there.) Here's a couple of pics of my parking light mod.
P.S. Relays are expected to arrive tomorrow for testing, John.

Ah! I see what you did there. I think I just got the two wire insulator/pigtail, installed in the original socket, then filed off the high line-up pin on an 1157 (12v) bulb. Painted my housing bright aluminum. They seem to have held up well since 2012.

Weld the screw head to the bracket.

...Or bend bracket tab backwards

I'm assuming there is a nut on back of housing

The screw goes in from the back of the housing, and the bracket is threaded to match the screw, IIRC. I'd have to go look at mine to be 100% sure.

Understood Kevin. Just trying to solve having to take it all apart if something can be done while John has it all out> I don't have enough info or pics to formalize an idea. just brainstorming which may sparkle an idea. If access to the screw head solves anything re: access, then drill out the threaded hole, weld head to bkt and use a nut. But don't know if nut interfers with anything so I will go back to sleep unless John thinks I'm on the right path.

I try to keep in mind that posters want to know what they want to know. But sometimes my Design Engineer kicks in and I start offering remedies without a question. Not too bad to do if initial question is answered. Several ideas were given about 700 wiring.

Mark ... You tell me this NOW???

OK, we'll incorporate that into the Tech Tip, should it ever get written.

Kevin ... Ditto. OK. More good info for the (potential) tech tip.

Both of you came up with far more elegant solutions then I did.

Bart...

On the Chevy AD front parking light, the housing has a simple hole in it for the socket bracket mounting screw to pass through. The socket bracket itself is threaded. So the screw holds the socket bracket tight to the housing.

In the picture, you see a phillips head screw. The original one was a slotted screw. When I removed it, I fat fingered it and it disappeared. So I replaced it with a same-sized screw I had on hand. With all the rebending of the original socket bracket, I managed to booger up the threads in the socket bracket pretty good. A quick pass with the tap and die set renewed the threads and it was good to go.

With the new two-wire set up, both wires won't fit through the original wire hole (the one with the grommet in the picture). I had to drill a new hole to move the socket bracket (to fit everything in the housing), so I was conveniently left with a second hole for the second wire. I plan on sealing the hole with some sort of sealer.

thanx. So to change bulb it will be: lens off, undo bkt screw, tilt socket(s) out a little and replace bulb?

Bart -- We'll find out when the time comes ...

Anyway, I got the lights reinstalled this afternoon and the wiring hooked up to the harness. Everything is now functional from the firewall forward (horn, high and low beams, parking lights and turn indicators).

Good news.

Bart -- Just re-read your earlier post. It won't be *that* easy. The socket bracket screw comes from the back side of the housing. You can't get to it from the front. You pretty much will have to remove the whole truck from the back of the grille to get to it. I think a couple of smallish jack stands should be enough to hold up the grille whilst one removes the truck from it.

How about a smallish hole in the inner fender/fender for a screwdriver shaft, magnetic tip.

It'll take a bit to get to that screw, like taking off the hood latch panel. But I like the smallish jacks stands to hold up the grille.
[on edit] BTW, 6V LED bulbs would put the need for changing the bulbs off long enough for it not to really matter. A while back I needed to replace a parking light bulb on my wife's Ford Escape. I didn't have enough elbows to reach it thru the fender liner, so wound up taking the entire bumper cover off and replaced all 6 bulbs that were back there. Here's a pic of that, too.

So I did some investigating on that relay diagram that you posted Bartamos. I couldn't get it to work as drawn, but with a small modification, it works like a charm. The flasher load wire shown in red on the diagram just needs to go to the turn signal switch and not to Pin 87 on the relays. The signal coming back from the turn signal labeled signal switch left and signal switch right makes the relays do the flashing, switching the appropriate brake light on and off. The attached is the modified relay diagram in case someone else is wanting to use a 4-wire turn signal switch without adding separate lights on the rear. [on edit] DON'T TRY TO USE THIS RELAY DIAGRAM. IT WON'T WORK.

The package will be on the way to you in the morning, John.

I believe the diagram has to stay the way it is and a power wire, not shown, goes to the turn signal switch.
Are you positive you got it to work with nothing on 87? Brakes work? Brake shuts off and rear bulb then blinks with brake pedal pushed? You used a 4/5 wire vintage switch? On a dual filament bulb?
I guess I should ask is your result by theory or empirical?

Bartamos, The turn signal switch is downstream of the flasher, so putting power thru the flasher to the 87 terminal, and to the coil terminal just switches the power to the brake light from the brake pedal switch to the flasher (both being powered.) But with nothing connected to 87, the relay just turns the brake light off in time with the flasher fed power from the turn signal switch. It will be in opposition to the front light, which gets its power from the turn signal switch. That makes no difference, since they're on opposite ends of the truck. I bench tested it, and couldn't get my flasher to work, so manually flashed the power coming thru the turn signal switch. If I could have gotten my flasher to work, I think my result would have been the same for the originally wired configuration. The switching of the relay coincided with the power to the bulb from the flasher, so that turned the bulb ON and ON instead of ON and OFF.
Not theory, but practical. Yes a vintage switch. Dual filament bulb makes no difference, it's just the brake/turn circuit. If the feed coming from the turn signal switch was constant, then the original configuration might work, but the turn signal switch output is SUPPOSED to be intermittent.
Trust me. It WORKS. {on edit] No it doesn't. No rear flashers unless the brake pedal is depressed (not good!)

The diagram I posted is correct. However it is missing information, like power to turn signal switch as I said.
It is a diagram for rear only. Does not address the front. It needs two more relays for that. I assume the person who posted it was helping someone do rear wiring on a 4 pin T/S. Don't know. i should have been more complete.

I don't have a clue how yours works or how you address the front. I need to explain the second diagram. It seems you have turned the relays into flashers I guess. NOT kosher IMO. If I understand correctly, you have a flash signal to the coil trigger 86. Once I explain how the relay works, in this configuration, you may see the advantage. We can not use the same method/notion, as the non brake 4 wire T/S does or a 7 pin does.

This explanation will use pinout numbers shown on the total diagram below. (second diagram)
1. These 5 pin relays are being used as routers unlike normal usage to protect a less robust switch from damage. The new use for the Sigstat 700 is just to turn on the left or right circuitry. Wires that used to go to the T/S, now go mostly to the circuitry.
2. Pin 87A and pin 30 are connected when no power to 85. This allows normal brake light action.
3. When 85 gets power thru coil of relay to 86 ground, it "latches". Pin 30 is then connected to 87. Not 87A. This shuts off brake signal and connects a "load" (the bulbs) to the flasher. Flasher heats up and delivers blink.


Because my first diagram has 85 and 86 reversed from the second diagram (which makes no difference) This following comment uses the first diagram. and Kevin's modification, pinout numbers.

The way I see the mod diagram and explanation is sending a flash signal to the 86 pin. That signal connects 30 and 87. Intermittently. Over and over, wearing out the relay. 87 is not connected to anything. Seems like you have the flasher flashing a relay. But I could be misunderstanding the writen explanation. Need a total diagram for front and rear and brakes for me to concede. I am not against anyone rigging lights up any way they want.


Here is the total diagram for it all to work. Easy to understand, examine and trust. Open for all to critique.
In this diagram, 85 and 86 are reversed as to power and ground. makes no difference. Should work with 6V.

Now I'm getting a real headache. But you do point out an issue with what I did. I'll get to that in a minute.

The front and rear lights (or relay in the case of my diagram) come from the same wire from the switch in a 4 wire switch. The 4 wires are: Power from the flasher, Indicator light from the flasher, Left front and rear bulbs, and Right front and rear bulbs. No relays are needed for the front bulbs. Just come right off the turn signal switch wire. But to do that you need to keep the flasher upstream of the switch.

Let me cogitate a bit on your diagram and see if I can simplify it (remove the two unnecessary relays.) Yes, the flasher would activate the relays. Nothing wrong with that.

I could not get your original configuration to work correctly with the flasher upstream of the turn signal switch. But you are correct in that I need a connection to power the rear bulb when the brake pedal switch is not applied. I'll need to send something else to John for his to work.

[on edit} OK. I'll concede that your 4 relay setup works, I still think that I can get what I sent to John to work with a bit of modification. I need to work on that. There has to be a more elegant way.

I suspect your flasher isn't working because the relay is not putting enough load on it. It is expecting 2 bulbs worth of current and you are only giving it 1 bulb plus a relay trigger.

A solid state flasher would probably fix that portion for you.

You are going to find out you need 4 relays as per the diagram. I do not think we should dicuss the first diagram. You can not make one wire work for left front and back. and one wire for right front and back. You need 4 relays.
You will end up with front and rear lights coming on when brakes applied.

The second diagram does the trick in an eloquent fashion. Super techno. High end. Relay guys will love it. A good use of the old 700 and the relays. All of which is what John yearns for.

John, buy two more relays and two more pig tail sockets. All your dreams will come true.. Kevin lives in a little log cabin in the Alaskan woods. We can't go with a hermit trapper type. Nice guy thought. Good moderator.

LOL! I'm anything but a hermit and I live in a regular house, not a cabin.

I'm not giving up yet. I think that 2 relays can be made to work. Did I mention I'm a cheapskate and don't want to buy any more stuff than needed.

I decided not to add the cheapskate part. If you make two relays work, I will give you the Tacobell Piece Prize.

Ok, I’ve looked at this every which way from Sunday.
Bartamos for the win. 🥇
I’m not that keen on TacoBell anyway.

Kevin, all I did was find something on the internet. We are both equal "winners" for our diligence and effort. Two engineers working together to come up with a recommendation. Plus if it does not work, I can blame my team member.
This will be a good search reference for future questions. Was fun working it with you.

You definitely gave me somethings to think about, Ken. LOL! Your explanation of your latest diagram was pretty clear. Kudos on that.

Exercise for the old brain is a good thing.

Back at you on working together.

John should be able to get this to work. I sent him pieces to build half of it, and a source for other parts. This exercise helped me discover that my original flasher was definitely T.U. I got a replacement and it confirmed on the bench that the original was toast on the bench.

Whoa -- I don't even have the switch wired up yet and the engineers are having a grand celebration of the mutual admiration society (typical ...). Don't start the victory dance just yet, gentlemen. Rolling eyes emoji goes here.

How many rockets did the engineers blow up before Alan Shepherd did a successful Spam in a can routine???

The proof is in the pudding and the pudding is far from served.

Just sayin'

"John should be able to get this to work ..."

I'm not sure how to take that ...

I agree John, there is always a chance for installer errors. You will be inducted into the Mutual Admiration Society upon completion of the wiring stuff....and if our Relay Remedy Routine works. Otherwise the Society will be disbanded.

No dissing of your abilities meant, John. After all you've been able to nurture Charlie along for all these years.

Damning with faint praise?

I’d issue Hansen a strike for that one.

"John should be able to get this to work ..."

AKA "The info supplied and the parts supplied should enable John to solve his wiring/turn signal question" that was outside.....ball one.

A gracious way of saying that you are "not completely dim", perhaps...
Most days I would consider that 'kind words' if spoken about me.