The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Tons 'o Fun V8 Selection for a one ton firetruck

I need more torque and power to move my heavy one ton firetruck. I am going to replace the stock 228 with a 350. What are your recommendations between the available crate motors out there? Thanks.

How about giving us a little more information to work with? What year, make, and series truck are you working with? How fast do you want to get to the fire? Small block V8's in general are a poor choice for powering big, heavy trucks. Either go for a big block Chevy, or maybe a Cadillac 500. It would also be helpful to know what kind of drivetrain you're working with- - - -transmission, rear, axle, and such. If you've got a driveline-mounted pump onboard and you're not planning to pump water with it, replace it with a 3 speed Brownie. That's what I'm planning to do with my 1962 American LaFrance pumper with a 5 speed Clark trans and a 401 GMC V6 engine. I'm planning to remove the rusted-out fire bed and replace it with a commercial 5th. wheel and a gooseneck trailer hitch for heavy haul towing.
Jerry

Hot Rod Lincoln.
The truck was an original 5.14 rear end, PTO, 4 speed, 228. The head was rebuilt, Petronics ignition installed, vintage air installed, rear end changed to 4:10 gears. Front disc brakes added. I am sure the truck weighs at least 7000 lbs without water.
The PTO pump is not used but rebuilt and wanted to be retained.
I want to use the AC and get up hills or hit the freeway to increase the trucks ability to attend farther away events. I will not be towing anything and
I thought a SBC install would bolt right up to the bell housing and be a simpler install. 🤔

Year please and who built the fire body? You probably think we’re being a PIA asking for more information but the more information you provide the better we can help you sort this out.

Sorry, it’s a 1951 , 1 ton, Bean conversion with two high pressure hose reels meant for brush fire protection. Yesterday’s photos

[img]https://photos.app.goo.gl/BziakFCutUHhg31NA[/img]



[img]https://photos.app.goo.gl/Ko9XNdprf8iV8VxZA[/img]

Thanks

Thank you, that’s a beautiful fire truck. As you know the V8 was not an option until 1955 so you will have to go through the usual trials and tribulations of a V8 Swap. Fortunately it’s been done thousands of times and tons of information is available to aid you. A good quality built 383 (350 with a 400 crank) will provide you with all the hp/torque you need for your intended use. New engines are available from companies like Speedway Motors, etc. Good luck and keep us in the loop.

A GMC 302 would fit right in there, and provide adequate power and look original.

Ed

There is no V8 that will bolt in, since the GMC and Chevy six bellhousing bolt pattern is completely different until the early 1960's when inline sixes, V8's and some V6's began to share the same bellhousing bolt pattern. You'll also encounter major difficulties with exhaust manifold and steering gear clearance issues. Ed definitely has the right idea- - - -a 302 or even a 270 GMC six will be almost a bolt-in swap and will provide the torque you need to keep up with traffic without butchering up the truck.
Jerry

Put a turbo on it! Go tiny twins, even! In fact, going split manifold or cast iron header makes a huge difference. I was stunned what it did for my 292 in my 78 GMC dump truck. I also installed a pair of 79 Honda CX 500 carbs on it first, which gave it power on the big end. The cast iron headers added another 25% more HP at least after the carb mod.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=obzULioHc64
I didn't believe the claims of 20-40% increase from the headers, but I do now! 10 years later, the header still doesn't leak!

The compression is low enough you can turbo that nicely, and the head is re-done so you have the hardened seats. Gee, do it right and they won't know if it's the turbo or the siren! LOL!

Oh, and turn off your A/C when you pull a hill! ;-)

I might get bashed but i buy all my “crate motors“ from the junkyard for about 4-500 total. Run of the mill silverado/sierra 4.8,5.3, or 6.0’s. I buy them fully dressed with all accessories,harness ecu still on them with the full factory serpentine setup. Bolt a old v8 bellhousing to it and slap the factory trans behind it with all stock parts. Frame mounted fuel pump and some quick wiring chop chop and your driving around with over 300hp that always runs exactly the same and never leaks a drop or needs much of any attention. Makes for great drivers.

I'm with Barnfind on using an LS. That nice of a truck deserves the best. With an LS you get more power, more torque, and WAY more fuel economy plus a 250k-300k life span. Have not done one that uses a PTO type transmission but have done several using the Corvette/Camaro six speed so manual trans parts are available. You most likely will have to do some fabbing to mate the old trans to the clutch plate, PP, TO bearing, and perhaps to bell housing. Nothing that hasn't been done many times so info is out there. Good luck; Evan

Not much fab at all to mate any old trans. All parts are basically available at any parts store. NFW 1050 is the flywheel you would use. Then its all just old 11” 10 spline clutch parts. Only part you need “special” is a extended pilot bushing.

He would need a Chevrolet bell housing, though. One that matches the crossmember mounts and correct starter mounting style/location.

Starter position dosent matter. All LS starters bolt to block not bellhousing. You are correct he would just use a older truck style open bottom bellhousing. I have never needed one with the crossmember mounts even though I have one in my truck. I added a rear crossmember to the tail of the trans.

Decided on the GMC 302 . The 228 is coming out Sunday along with the tranny for a rebuild. Thanks for the advice.

My Dad's old 47 (looking back, I think it was really a '46 but titled as a '47) had the 302 big six. That engine ran great, and had lots of power even with a heavy school bus body on it. I was never able to get it dialed in right to drive, but that old crash box taught me a lot. The engine also had a big crack all the way from front to back along the base of the water jacket, but the JB Weld sealed it up for probably the hundred miles I drove it, before it started leaking again.

That bus ended up as field art up at Crystal Springs, Utah hot springs. So if you're ever up there and see the old Grateful Dead painted shorty school bus.. that was my Dad's, and I painted that logo on there in about 1992.

What happened to the 302? If it's still there, there are ways to patch that crack that work a lot better than JB Weld. Even Marine Tex will do a better job, and there are also permanent repairs such as overlapping threaded plugs that will seal up a crack for good. I'd hate to think that a good 302 is rotting away in a piece of yard art!
Jerry

@Hotrod Lincoln yes I know of the right way to repair stuff and I knew it back then, in 1993 as well. Back then I had no torch or welder or other means of fixing it good. Sadly, I no longer have access to the vehicle because when my Dad died in 2004, I lost all access to the property because his third wife was.. well.. I'll keep things rated G because this is a family friendly forum.. but anyway, the bus is yard art up in Crystal Springs, Utah. I live 750 miles away in Preston Washington, and I somehow doubt I could go up there and mount an expedition to save the rig. Or that I'd have a place to put it.

Edit: '92? '93? Sorry for the floating year, there've been a lot of 'em since then and I've been drunk at least twice during that time. :-D

Got the picture- - - -the alleged "lady" needs a flea collar, right? I've got a couple of 270s stockpiled, and I'm working on a stroker crankshaft and slip fit flanged sleeve project that turns them into 300+ cubic inch engines with the capability to be rebuily numerous times. The 270s are a lot more plentiful than those 302s.
Jerry

A flea collar for a start.. :-D

Sounds like an interesting project. I wish I'd been able to save the old bus. I still have dreams about it sometimes. When I was a kid I pretended to drive that rig all the way to Las Vegas!

OP -- Excellent choice on going with the 302! I was going to footstomp what Ed said, but ...

I know everyone is entitled to their own opinion as to how to do anything to their own truck but the reality of the v-8 "upgrade" to the '47 - '55 1st series trucks is that it is a LOT of work, fabrication and frustration to achieve marginal performance improvements required by the average Stovebolter (defined as some who doesn't want to mess too much with the truck's originality and just wants to drive comfortably/safely in modern traffic. Not all Stovebolters need to haul 70K loads at 70 MPH and do the Quarter Mile in .7 seconds.

You'll be amazed at how much that 302 will do for you, especially if you go the simple/easy step of replacing the center section of the rear axle with a 4.11 gear set. You even get to keep that venerable SM-420! And it's pretty much a bolt in with no getting crazy with fabricating engine mounts, rerouting exhausts and steering boxes to make that silly SBC fit where it doesn't belong. :P

302 six is the best choice for that chassis, good call indeed. The one in my Dad's old bus sure did run great, I remember being surprised at how nice and smooth it was. Also I thought since it was so old it'd be kinda gutless, but no. Plenty of pep, it kept up with '90s traffic just fine, once I learned how to double clutch that crashbox :-)