The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Engine Questions

We just purchased this engine, The block is a 54 Trk 3835911 and the head is a 53 3701887 Trk. The engine seems to be complete. Can anyone recommend an engine shop that specializes in the stovebolt rebuilding process. We live in Naples Fl so anywhere in the South East will do. The only thing I question is the oiling of the LP head. See attached photos.

Thanks Red

1950 3104

What's the final destination for the engine? Do you want it "original" or upgraded to more modern internal parts? Some of the internal stuff, such as main bearings and camshafts, are getting extremely scarce and expensive when they can be located, particularly for the 1954 and early 55 models. Have you heard the engine run yet, and if not, are you sure it needs to be rebuilt? I'm in south central Tennessee, and I have several engines under construction at this time.
What is an "LP head"?

Jerry

LP = Low pressure??

If so, that's the old Babbit rod engine, either 216 or 235 truck engines form 1941 to 53. Also the Powerglide equipped passenger car 235 from 50-52. 54 235s are not "low pressure" engines. High and low pressure engine heads don't interchange- - - -there's a different number and spacing of the head bolts.
Jerry

If it really is a 54 block, and the head bolted onto it, nothing here should be “low pressure.”

Ok here are the casting numbers, The block is a 3835911 and the head is a 3701887. Per the casting numbers the block is a 1954 235 from a truck. The head is a 3701887 and the last low pressure engine 235 from 1953 truck. So my question is will i have problems running this head on a full pressure block. please refer the previous photos and the new attached photos.

Thanks Red

Wow, that is a super-oddball head casting. If that head bolts to that block, I can’t imagine why it wouldn’t work.

I feel like I am about to learn something interesting here….

Either an error in Tim’s excellent information. (It truly is excellent, I use it all the time). Or there was some weird transition year situation I have not yet read about.

That head number is also used in full pressure 235 engines
And since you found it on a full pressure (corvette) 235 block it’s likely original to that block
Someone rebuilding a first gen corvette would love to get the correct block casting for sure

Wouldn’t a 54 truck 235 be painted grey? Blue indicates it was more likely in a car for that year and block? Check to see if it has hydraulic lifters and then you might find it is an actual corvette engine?
-s

I've heard rumors of a spray-oiler engine in 1953 with a later model head bolt pattern. What's the chance one of those heads found its way onto a full pressure 54 engine? If it bolts on, it should work. It will have a lower compression ratio than an 848 head.
Jerry

Perhaps they started casting a few truck heads in 53 that went on some early 54 blocks? Before the more common 54 casting number became the go-to.

I’d say it’s somewhat of a unicorn, regardless.

The design of the draft tube indicates to me that at least that part came from a car. They had to bend it wide to clear the side engine mounts used on cars. The presence of an automatic choke also indicates that came from a car. The well weathered blue paint also indicates car. All '53 low pressure 235 engines came with the same bolt pattern head as the '54 and later (full pressure) blocks (as well as the '53 w/Powerglide full pressure 235).
Are there stamped numbers and letters on the pad near the distributor?

Distributor pad T54X, I believe this is a truck block and head. Seems like someone adapted this engine for a car. As far as I can tell the head was only produce for 1 year in 53 for a truck. What are the procedures for testing and bringing this engine back to life. I would like to keep this engine as stock as possible, parts permitting.

Thanks Red

What all do you know about that engine? Was it running when it was yanked from whatever it was in?

You might want to read this TECH TIP, by the Stovebolt Collective, "Bringing a dead engine back to life."

Engines are engines- - - -all of them require the same procedures to get rebuilt. The first thing to do is get the thing running and do a thorough evaluation of its condition. Then fix what needs to be fixed. There's nothing unique or magical about a stovebolt. It's a glorified tractor engine built with 1920s technology, and it was hopelessly out of date by the mid 1950s whem most of the engines we tinker with were manufactured. They can either be brought back to the same degree of obsolescence they had when brand new, using the rapidly dwindling and terribly expensive supply of spare parts still available, or they can be upgraded somewhat with less expensive, more available modern bits and pieces. "You pays your money and you takes your choice!"
Jerry

Your T54x would indicate that your head originally went on a truck. Yes, it is a one year only head, but the same head was also used on '53 car engines which came with manual transmissions (babbitt bearing, low oil pressure engines). The heads from cars were stamped with a different letter/number to indicate that it was destined for a car. In other words, same head, different stamp on the pad near the distributor.

Thanks for all the help and advice, now its oft tech tips.

Red

Your 235 Block 3835911 was used on ALL 1954 cars and trucks, both Powerglide and manual trans, and 1955 1st series trucks. T54X indicates it was cast/built at the Tonawanda Engine Plant and put in a 3100 truck. The serial number stamped in front of T54X would tell us how far into the production run your engine is, they started at 1001.

Your 235 Head 3701887 was used on ALL 1953 cars and trucks.

Seems like a "frank'n motor" to me, post the casting date codes.

Mike B

I’m lost. 1953 was a high pressure year for cars and a low pressure year for trucks. How could that same head have been used across both?

Casting numbers are NOT part numbers
A casting can be machined differently an used in various assemblies which get you to different parts (and part numbers)

Example:
head casting 3835499

head casting 3835499 is used in part # 3835545 for a 235 engine 50-53 in USA, these are likely babbitt 235s
head casting 3835499 is used in part # xxxxxxx also found on Canadian 216 51 engines (block 3695408)
head casting 3835499 is used in part # 3703569 for a USA 54 261 engine

It's a 1953 thing. They were transitioning to to the full pressure engine that year and decided to also change the low oil pressure blocks to accept the same head as the full oil pressure blocks.
That seems like a waste of money to change the low oil pressure blocks for just one year, but maybe they had not yet decided to phase out the low oil pressure blocks as soon as 1954.

Here's my two-cents worth...
I went to a farm sale last month to see a 235 that had been "overhauled." It was a 53 block with the oil gallery plate of a splash oiler. It had been painted orange over caked grease spots so I could guess what it looked like on the inside. I passed.

The head was an 1887.
The bock was a 3701946 date code I103

Mike B brings up an important point. When you have a seeming mismatch in components that don't seem to go with the casting numbers .... You *must* check the date codes!

For example, my 261 had casting numbers that told us it was a '54 engines. But when we opened up (*after* I bought '54 style main bearings) we found it had the later style bearings in it. Checked the date codes and we found out the engine *had* come out of the '54 mold ... but in '59. Meaning, it was a crate motor built as a replacement for the later Advance Design trucks (before they went to the Task Force design that required the lower mounted water pump). At some point after '54, GM changed the main bearing design.

Point being -- when doing ID forensics, you have to cross check all the data you have, including the date codes. They *might* help you make sense of it.

Then again, they might not... Still, you should check the date codes.

LOL! I remember that situation well, since we were forced to modify the block to use the early style main bearings, or wait a week or more to have the "right" ones shipped in! Now John's 261 can use either style of bearing if it ever needs to be rebuilt again. Chances are that will be the "next guy's problem", unless I discover the Fountain of Youth in the next few years! Regardless of what the casting numbers and date codes suggest, nothing beats a forensic inspection of what's actually there! Lots of things can change over 60 or 70 years' time, no matter what happened at the factory.

Jerry

That’s the explanation I needed.

Would be cool to find the board’s meeting minutes from the day they finally decided to phase out an engine oiling system that had been obsolete for a decade or more.

The spray-oil and Babbit bearing system was actually a pretty good one, but the problem was that maintaining it properly was too labor-intensive. It was a lot simpler to go to precision insert bearings that could be swapped out by any semi-skilled wrench jockey in a short time, instead of needing a highly skilled real mechanic who could adjust the bearing clearance with shims periodically. Given the trend toward throwaway vehicles designed to barely survive the warranty period instead of being maintained for 10-15 years made sense to the corporate bean counters. It's amazing that the vehicles we tinker with these days have survived at all for 5 times or more of their projected lifespan.
Jerry

Ok here are the date codes I believe, all Greek to me. Seems like someone painted the valve springs orange.
Engine serial # 0323204T54X. Checked the oil and it is full, color looks good.

Yeah, I didn’t mean to imply that it didn’t work. But certainly, the rest of the industry had moved on to pressurized rods and such long before.

Head date code L 30 2 = Dec 30 1952 (cast during the 1953 model year).

Con 12 = Conveyor used to cast that head in the foundry...if they found a problem after it was cast they would know where to look.

Block date code E 21 4 = May 21 1954.

Engine serial number 0323204 makes it the 322,204th engine built for the 1954 model year at the Tonawanda Engine Plant.

Mike B

I have learned a lot.

Thanks Everyone
Red