The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Cold start - some help and questions

Currently have all the brakes off the '41 and hoping to have it back on the road in a few days for the ODSS Meet and Greet coming up. My only other issue is she's a tough cold start, Ive added 2/0 AWG wire to the starter, and a ground to it also along with a 6V Optima with no improvement. Is a tune up in order? Or is it the stater? When the Bendix isn't engaged the starter spins very well. I also bought a hand crank it was delivered yesterday. Got it to fire off once with it.

You're saying the engine spins over just fine but doesn't fire?

If so, you need to go through every component in the ignition system and replace or repair it.

When did the hard starting begin? Did it start easily in the summer and then stop starting in the winter? Did it get harder to start gradually over time?

First thing is check points gap and/or replace the points. Gap plugs, check plug wires, cap, and rotor. How old are all those components?

Have you tested to see if you're getting spark at the top of the coil? What about individual plugs?

What about your condenser? Those are notoriously bad even when brand new. Go to the electrical section of this forum and read the articles pinned at the top of the forum on the new condensers posted by Jon G. He makes 200,000 hour condensers that actually work.

Make sure your timing is set properly.

How long does it typically take to start? When it finally starts, does it run properly?

When you hand cranked it, did it start and run?

Just bought it last month so most of its age and condition is unknown. I still has the polarity reversing switch, so I’m guessing most of the ignition parts are older or original. When it’s at operating temperature it turns over and starts right up. Cold it turns really slow but won’t start. Looking at the timing marks near the distributor it’s turned all the way counter clockwise (retard)?

Will any of THIS Tech Tech help. "Bringing a dead engine back to life"

The adjustment at the dizzy is for the home mechanic/farmer to advance or retard the timing based on the octane rating of the fuel he purchased. Back in the 30s and into the 50s, good quality gasoline wasn't always available so a farmer out in the middle of nowhere might be stuck with some sort of 80 octane garbage that would require a quick adjustment to retard the timing.

Turning over slowly is either a bad battery, poor battery connections, inadequate gauge wires, poor ground connections, or a failing starter.

If the engine spins over at normal speed and still doesn't start, I'd look at the ignition system.

Clean all cable connections. Make sure your ground cables and their connections are all up to snuff, have your battery load tested at Advance Auto or whatever. If all of that checks out correct, then I'd say your starter probably needs to be refurbished.

I've never heard of a polarity reversing switch.

I assume everything is 6 volt.

Start with a known good battery. During cranking, hot or cold, the voltage at the posts of a 6V battery (NOT the battery cable clamps) should not drop below 4.5 V. If so, either recharge or replace the battery. Also during cranking, the voltage available at the ignition switch side of the coil should be the same- - - -4.5V or more. That polarity reversing switch should be disabled, unless you've got a 100 point car show vehicle than must be 100% original. It adds a bunch of potential trouble spots to the ignition system, and does not extend point life like it was designed to do. Every connection from the battery to the starter, every connection in the ignition system, and all the grounds in both systems must be surgically clean and tight. 6V systems leave no room for error whatsoever!
Jerry

Fannin -- Looking forward to meeting you next Saturday.

Concur heartily with Jerry -- Check ALL your battery and starter connections, including the bell housing to frame ground strap. You will never go wrong following Jerry's advice.

Do you know what viscosity oil is in it?

Will it start ok if you pour a little gas down the carb throat first?

If my '49 sits more than a few days, it will not start very well (run the battery down trying). My problem is that the fuel in the carb bowl evaporates (a long story and several reasons for *that*). I have a squirt bottle with fuel in it I keep with the truck. Before attempting to start, I squeeze a few oz's down the carb throat and it will fire right up and run just fine.

To resolve this issue, I need to rebuild my carburetor. But as my carburetor is not the right one, I am waiting to find the right one to rebuild. In the meantime, I squirt gas into the carb to get started. Minor PITA that I hope to correct soon ....

It may be that you have a similar issue. So try the stupid/easy stuff first before you start messing with distributor or carburetor settings.

Ok I think I’ve got it narrowed down to the starter. I made up 2/0 awg cables last week for both positive and ground, they’re good and tight. The battery is a brand new optima.

I came by the shop today and looking down the air horn it spits plenty of gas. I did it get started after some try’s. Once it was warmed up I put my timing light on it. Initially I couldn’t even see the bb, my light is adjustable and it was 4 degrees retarded. I loosened up the nut for the octane setting? And moved it back to center. It’s now showing 2 degrees retard at idle which is 700rpm.


After this I tried starting it when hot and it still cranked slow and didn’t want to start. I put the hand crank in and it fired right up. So it looks like a starter rebuild is in line.


I posted a video of starting it by hand on my instagram. Not sure how to post videos here?

That was neat to see and hear the video. If you do the hand crank again, can we *hear* more of that engine as it purrrs.

You need to turn the dizzy knob back to 0 and adjust the distributor to get the timing at 4 deg BTDC

I bought a new 6v starter from NAPA a couple months ago. It was about $79. If your old one is the original one, hang onto it and have it rebuilt.

Not your starting problem, but when you get everything else fixed 700 RPM idle is probably way above specs. My '52 GMC specs are for 400-450 RPM. Yeah, I know it isn't a Chevy, but it has a Chevy sourced Carter YF and a distributor that is the same part number as used in Chevys of the same year. It starts advancing timing very low engine speeds. 2 engine degrees at 400 engine RPM and 22 degrees at 1700 RPM.

Check the procedure below for how GMC says to set the timing. (Ignore the part about how to connect the timing light as it was for an old time neon timing light that was available in the early '50s).

Change the starter as often as you like- - - - -it won't solve the hard starting problem. One more time- - - -check the primary ignition circuit- - - -ignition switch, coil, distributor wiring, internal circuit in the distributor, and the polarity switch. There's a high resistance connection that's hidden there somewhere. The reason the engine starts with the hand crank is there's no load on the battery- - - -more voltage available at the coil since the starter isn't stealing any of the voltage. I have fixed dozens of hard start problems over the past 65 years by finding the dirty connection(s) in the ignition circuit.
Jerry

Appears the timing was the issue. Starts right up now.