The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Rebuild carb first before first start on 235 sitting since '97?

Hey, would the carb need to be rebuilt prior to seeing if it will at least start? I've got a 1959 Chev 3100 w/235cu, has been sitting since 1997. Engine is free and owner said it ran when parked. Plan to verify fuel lines/tank etc are clean. Question is does the carb need to be rebuilt just to see if it will start. Totally agree it should be for long term but want to verify the engines condition ahead of time?

You could take the carb off and dribble fuel into the intake runner and probably get it to start.

You have nothing to lose by trying to start it with the carb that's installed now but you also run the risk of damaging the engine if other precautionary steps aren't taken avoid ruining the engine.

Fuel tank, fuel lines, probably fuel pump are all likely gummed up.

Attach a fuel hose to the inlet side of the fuel pump and put the other end into a gasoline can with fresh gas. DO NOT attempt to use the 30 year old gasoline in the tank that's full of rust and who knows what?

Remove all the spark plugs and put some motor oil in each cylinder and turn the engine over by hand with a wrench on the crank snout. Remove the pushrod cover and valve cover and watch everything move while you do this. Make sure all the valves and pushrods are moving the way they should.

"Ran when parked" is a joke. Unless the owner starts it for you, assume that it needs a total rebuild and pay accordingly.

Get the truck to your own shop and take the necessary time and care to properly start a Rip Van Winkle engine.

There used to be a photo album on this site labeled "IRWIPI"- - -(It Ran When I Parked It!) Some of the pics showed vehicles with trees growing through holes rusted in the sheet metal. Unless the seller can fire up the engine and let you hear it run before you start swapping dollars, you're buying scrap iron. Even then, "Caveat Emptor!" Lots of things other than the condition of the carburetor need to be addresses before starting any engine that hasn't been run in a few MONTHS- - - -let alone years!
Jerry

It Ran When I Parked It stories still *alive* although no longer a contest. We have a 2024 IRWIPI Calendar to keep it alive a little bit still tho.

The OP called out that the engine was free and he is trying to verify the condition. Please stay on track as rants about sellers and conditions are not relevant.

Here is a Tech Tip for safely starting up an unknown/old engine.

Dang, Fibonachu! I was just getting ready to rant further. I read where the OP wrote "engine is free". I figured he meant that the engine could be turned over by hand, not free of charge.
That changes everything. Standing down now. I'll save my ranting for another day...
Dude just needs to take the engine home and do what it says in the hotlink you posted.
Good eye mate.

The OP’s question was specific to the carb and whether or not to rebuild. Would be helpful to know what type of carb we are talking about.

Rochester B?

I also thought he meant that the engine turned freely, not that he was getting the engine without paying for it.

Yes, Never look a gift horse in the mouth. Take home the free engine and go through the procedure to start it when it's in your own shop with all your own tools.

Besides all of what has been discussed, "its never the carburetor".
A wise man, woman or any other kind of person, would be well served by adopting this mantra.
Let's say one were to jump straight to the carburetor, tears it down, then puts it back together wrong.
Now they have a problem which they did not have prior to jumping the gun of touching the carburetor.
If there is something wrong with any other component, now one is left with the dreaded, "two problems at the same time" scenario.
Bad juju.

The O.P states that they have a 3100 truck with a 235 that has been sitting since 1997 and engine is free. I take that to mean that the engine rotates. As far as the carburetor, was the truck left at a standstill with gas in the carb? if so then it probably won't run without some work being done on the carb. If the other precautions are followed, I would dribble a little gas down the throat to see if it will fire.

Sorry guys, could have been more specific. I turned the crank over by turning the fan blade(engine components are not seized up). Engine is in the truck inwhich i bought(the truck, that is-all one unit). This pickup was owned by a neighbor of my parents. She(the neighbor owner) is in her early nineties, it belonged to her husband who passed in 1997. She said after his passing, she never started it. She agreed to sell it to me. I havent removed the carb, seems I've read that the 59's used Rochester? Dunno yet. Just as another responder to this thread mentioned, I was hoping to rule out a secondary problem when trying to start it in the chance I screw up and don't get the carb set perfectly on the rebuild and create a troubleshooting mess. So i thought perhaps i should give it a try. In memory I was wondering how bad out gasoline was back in 1997? Worse today? It would have had to run on it then, Excellent suggestion on testing the fuel pump, I'll do that. Cleaning/adding a additional filter perhaps. Cleaning/blowing out fuel lines to tank with carb cleaner, remove tank, blow out, wash with gas, empty,inspect,etc. If the old girl comes alive. Then I would feel more comfotable attempting rebuild myself. Thanks for some great advice.

Also, thanks for the link, a couple things there I hadn't thought about.

Fixed your signature line so folks will have handy reference to your Bolt.

In Missouri we have special spiders. They are trained to seek out the carburetor of any vehicle sitting for a sufficiently long period of time for the fuel in the carburetor to dry. They then crawl into the carburetor, locate the idle circuit, and build their nests, effectively plugging the idle circuit. There is a sub-specie of these that do the same with any carburetor sitting on the shelf. It has been decades since I have ventured into the state of California, so do not know if this particular spider exists there or not.

As far as the quality of fuel is concerned, after 50 years of selling carburetors and parts world-wide, it is my opinion that while the fuel sold in California may be environmentally friendly, it is second only to that sold in Colorado for NOT being engine friendly. I think I would do a compression test, possibly followed by a leakdown test. If the engine passes these tests, and you wish to keep it, I would suggest a carburetor rebuild prior to attempting to start the engine for both of the possible issues stated above.

Jon

3100Apache1959: You can't go wrong taking advice from Carbking.

Thanks guys, great advice. Honestly I'm hoping to drive for a short while then take the plunge and tear down. Which I know will be year long process. At which time the engine is headed to the shop for a bath and rebuild. Would be cool, however, to drive the old girl for a couple months until the warmth comes back.

You might be surprised. If it starts up and runs without smoking or making any bad noises, you may be able to drive it for a long time and many thousands of miles.

If it's not too late ... You (OP or anyone thinking about bringing a dormant engine back to life) should READ THIS FIRST

It could prevent a perfectly rebuildable engine from becoming scrap metal and spare parts for someone else's project.

John

This.

Speaking from personal experience….DRIVING my truck is way more satisfying than merely looking at it. I wasted a lot of time before I knew better….fretting over secondary details.

Unless the OP is determined to have everything just perfect….evaluate what you have….and keep it on the road if possible. You can build another engine on the side while you enjoy the one that runs….even if it smokes a bit, leaks a bit, etc.

There’s no such thing as a “numbers matching” engine for these trucks.

Following the counsel in the first time startup document that has been linked here … is definitely the place to start.

John - that is a terrific article!

A little planning and testing can go a long way.

Jon

Sorry for the duplicative link -- In all the excitement, I missed that Fibby had already linked to the Dead Engine Start tech tip. My bad.

Thanks for the compliment, Jon -- I wish I could take credit for the article. All I did was take notes and write 'em all down in some semblance of order.

We seem to be recommending that Tech Tip a lot lately so I may update it. We should probably add a little bit on a dead engine's carburetor -- probably that at a minimum, it should be removed and cleaned.

In the past, I have been guilty of grabbing the jumper cables, pouring a little gas down the throat and going for it. Experience has taught me that as much fun and expedient as this may be, its wiser to be more methodical. Probably safer, too, if we're dealing with a desiccated carburetor with deteriorated gaskets leaking all that fuel we just dumped in it ... one back fire and ... well, you could have a real problem on your hands.

If you or JonG have any input for a "checking the carb" section, please share separately (pm is fine). JonG's excellent B tip is great, but limited to Rochesters. For this tech tip, we need to be more generic.

John - there isn't a lot one can do in "checking the carb" of a long-time sitting engine.

I guess the following would be a start (no pun intended) if patience is not an option:

(1) work the throttle arm to fully open the throttle and MAKE SURE IT RETURNS TO CLOSED!
(2) work the choke arm or link to make sure the choke will completely open and close
(3) NEVER pour fuel down the carburetor throat, fill the bowl using something like an empty ketchup squeeze bottle through the bowl vent
(4) IF AND ONLY IF THERE IS NO BOWL VENT, dribble 1/2 a teaspoon of fuel down the carburetor throat, CLOSE THE CHOKE BUTTERFLY, and back away!

And have a class C fire estinguisher present with the pin pulled!

Yes, I am paranoid! A long time ago, I lost a friend from a carburetor fire. I didn't do the carb, so no guilt trip; but the incident impressed on me that fire CAN happen. This was a running car that developed a leak. When the gentleman started the car it caught on fire. He was then about my age now, and simply could not get out of the car.

Safety only costs a little time, and is a great investment!

Jon

I like to use spray choke cleaner rather that gasoline.
Good for quick diag of crank no start on port fuel injected engines where you can't visually see fuel spray.
Drove many gm rigs with failed fuel pump into the shop with hood up & lot lizard spraying mist into air Intake.

Great suggestions gentleman, thanks again

In addition to these good ideas, I like to overfill the engine oil pan with lots of oil, atf etc in order to get the rear seal kind of prelubed before rotating the engine. I use an oil squirt can to nurse the carb intake with a mixture of oil & gas, instead of trying to fill the carb ahead of time. Also, the valves like to stick,down causes excessive clearance, and stuck up may bend a pushrod. remove the plugs, and the valve cover and slowly rotate the engine and watch for any valve action- stuck down with excessive clearance, or stuck up which may cause the engine to have a tight spot.
do this by hand and you will get a feel for what is going on.