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1958 Chevy Apache
Stella
"Start to finish w/upgrades"

Turned 65 this year with a hankerin' to find a 1958 Apache project to take from start to finish. It's been 45+ years since I have been into car projects. The last project I didn’t get to finish as career stuff got in the way. Then marriage, kids and then life started winding down.

First pix of the new project is when my cousin and I trailered it home from New Mexico to Illinois.

A little more of the story:

My last car projected was a 1971 Plymouth Barracuda in 1980. I had just completed a 383, built from direct connection parts and a fortune in machine work paid for at the $3-5 per hour I earned at that time. I had just started it on open headers for its first run when I took a job a thousand miles away. I had an engine and direct connection torque flight and a body that needed a ton of work.

I ended up crating the engine and tranny, sold the body for parts and moved. A year later i sold the engine and tranny. Goodbye dream!

Back in those days, we painted cars in our garages with lacquer. We shared hoists, lifts and stands among a small group of guys.

As I looked at this Apache, it will get a complete tear down to the frame. It will need cab corners, lower doors, lower fenders and whatever other old bodywork I find under the two color changes it has had.

I plan to do away with the under the driver master brake cylinder and add power steering. The wife will probably make me add A/C. All the glass is cracked or otherwise shot. The front end needs work.

This truck was partially dismantled when the owner passed. I picked it up from another owner who decided to pass on all the work needed. It came with a late 70’s era 350 and the original Muncie 3 speed and a converted floor shifter.

Engine and tranny came home in the bed of the Apache. I know the engine has already been rebuilt once and it was out because of blowing smoke. My plan at this point is to drop a crate small block /auto tranny combo in but who knows. I don't need an engine tranny right now.

I started dismantling the bed as the front end will be easy cuz it's all been off already. I’m halfway thru the 80 plus bed wood screws. Some unscrew, those that don't get the head drilled off.

I have so much going in my head right now that I don't want to write about. Gotta get her apart to know what's next.

I plan to get it down to the cab on the frame and then hope to start steel work while the doors are still hanging. Once the welding and body work on the cab is done, I will remove the doors and pull the cab so I can get at the cab bottom and then address frame clean up.

After that, I hope to fix doors and fenders while I rebuild the front end and decide to do with the rear end.

I think I’m looking at two years to get paint on it. With all the changes in paint tech, I gotta figure out what i can spray new steel patches and other bodywork with to keep it from rusting. It needs to be rattle cans for this as the temporary spray booth construction is down the road.

At least everything is stored in doors.

I attached another pic taken after I unloaded her into my shop area. Plenty of barns to store body parts inside.

This post is long and I’m tired of fat fingering my phone.

Nice. Looks like a solid start. John

Nice start to your project. She looks really good. I was in the same situation with life getting in the way. Now that I’m retired, it didn’t change much. Still don’t have enough time to work on my project. Life is still getting in the way!

And of course please post more pictures. We ‘Bolters love pictures. Again, welcome to the forums!

Wow Kevin! That's a lot of typing (with fat fingers - it's hard on a phone). You have given us a good lowdown on the Apache. Send updates (and pix*) as you are able.

Frame off is a big job. Many have done it and I'm sure they'll want to following your progress.

Well wishes on all that.

Thanks.

Kevin, Welcome to the Stovebolt. phosphoric acid also known as Ospho and other brand names will protect your bare metal from rusting.

Welcome to the Bolt! Sounds like you have a plan. Hope it all works out. Keep us posted on your progress.

Welcome KevinS (from another confirmed "fat finger" typist - LOL)!

Your definitely have your plan laid out and I look forward to seeing future posts in the various Shop forums.

Will add a note that your location has you in the Great Lakes Bolters area and as others mentioned above there a quite a few fellow Bolters in your neck of the woods.

You might want to go introduce yourself there too and check out about upcoming events in your region that you might like to participate in, like the AD Nationals at Franklin, IN.

Once again, Welcome!

Dan

Hi Kevin and welcome to the Stovebolt. Consider yourself at home. We are here to help you on your journey.
In my personal experience I've found that even just 15 minutes EVERY day will accomplish much. After restoring several vehicles I've found that I like taking it apart one piece at a time....and working on that one piece until it is ready to "store" (except for final paint), then move to the next one.
It helps to keep me motivated and once all pieces are ready, its suoooo much fun when putting it back together with the parts ready to go!

....I found it was best to avoid tearing one down in a couple days and looking at a pile of stuff that makes you want to look the other way! But, as we say here, it's your truck, do it your way. We are here to help.

....always had a soft spot for the twin headlights.

Thanks Wayne!



Will ask more in the body/paint board.

Thanks Ac! The lower cab needs the usual new metal and i hate laying on my back underneath. I plan to remove the bed and the front body so i can focus on the lower cab with doors in to try and avoid clearance issues. As i get each new patch in, i plan to fill and get the area to a prime finish, then move to the next area. With the front body off, working on the front end/suspension will be easier.

I’m journaling and photographing each step i take and i have plenty of barns to hang body parts in. All rubber mounts are shot, nothing in the doors works, except the hinges. I already decided to go to the frame and fix one piece at a time. Probably 3 years but God only knows. I added another pic.

I really like your caption for this one!

Welcome 👍 🇺🇸 😁 Nice looking old Chevy 👍

Welcome KevinS. you are in for a good ride. BTW my son is also a Kevin S.

Gonna be 100 plus here all week according to weather rumors. Too hot for me to crawl under the bed and remove more wood bolts. I did look at the 350 that came with my girl and now wonder if this motor was ever in the truck. The engine compartment shows front mount engine mounts, starboard side has a good bend in it. The 350 motor has no upper mount brackets and the bolt holes dont look like they have had anything in them. There is orange paint on the mouts that matches the repaint on the 350 block.

The original muncie 3 speed was bolted to this 350 when i brought it home. One bolt sheared in the top of the 350 block and two bolts out of four missing on the tranny tail piece housing.

Still have not decided if i want to install a sbc and an automatic or go backwards and put a 6 back in. The automatic tranny on a sbc would require frame mods at the crossmember, to go backwards would require me to find all the 3 on a tree hardware as this truck was converted over to a rather sloppy looking floor shifter at some point. I would also likely try to find an overdrive manual 3 speed if i went this path. Whichver path i choose, most the linkage is not present.

I would welcome any input.

They look like factory 8 cly. front motor frame mounts. So a 283 would be correct. For the 6 cly. ,you need these mounts. I`d keep the flywheel(resurfaced) replace clutch etc. Also a rebuilt 283. With a borg warner OD with 3 speed floor shift.

Thanks Gp. I see online info about a BW T85N 3 speed and a Muncie 319 with a BW R10K overdrive add on. I see no sources for either. I have the original non overdrive 3 speed. Overdrive would be essential to keep a 3 speed. The existing tranny case stamp is not fully legible. Where does one source a strong 3 speed with overdrive?

Kevin,

Did you see / read Possum's 1958 Apache 3800 build in the Project Journals?

Interesting to have to "hot" '58s at the same time to look at.

I saw one for sale ...cannot remember. They are out there. I had one in my 58 Apache. Replaced it with a M-22RC. 3rd gear in that is golden.

Kevin: Only thing not legible on that Saginaw 3 speed case is the day of the month in the casting date. The leading L would be December and the trailing 7 would be 1957. The two characters in the middle are the day of the month.

Thanks Bill. I guess my guess that the tranny was original is credible.

Kevin,

You can place an ad in the Truck Parts Wanted forum in case you can't locate on via sales ads on the web.

I have been known for spotting such items in the past. Will gladly snoop a bit to see what I might discover and let you know.

Dan

100 degrees here today. I had to start on my daily driver front brakes. 265k miles on the original brakes. While i was in the garage, i crawled under my girl and took a few pics of the rearend. She’s gonna need a pinion seal and gasket for sure. It looks like the stamping says AB1010. Gotta look that up.

According to 348-409.com, AB is a 3.36 gear. It supposedy was paired with a powerglide which i dont have. If true, the gearing is not horrible if it were paired with an overdrive.

Kevin,

A search through the GM Heritage Center resource documents shows that the "AB" code was used to identify the common passenger vehicle rear axles mounted behind all equipped with automatic transmissions from 1955-1964. "AB" is specified as manufactured at the "Gear & Axle" plant in Detroit, MI.

None of the specific year GM data files noted what the gear ratio was for "AB" designations, but researching other Chevrolet vehicle description documents shows that the "3.55 to 1" was the standard ratio behind automatic transmissions for those years.

The only specific engine package detail I found when searching all those year documents was for the 1959 model year which indicated it would have been installed in "348" equipped vehicles with either of the available automatic transmissions or the 3 speed manual trans option. Otherwise the only note was that it was used behind automatic transmission equipped vehicles (no specific engine).

Somewhere on that case there may be a "cast" date code that may better identify the actual year of manufacture.

Hope this helps???

Dan

Thanks Dan!

As soon as the temp drops, i plan to jack up the drivers side rear wheel and spin it 10 times while counting revolutions on the pinion. Don’t know any other easy way to confirm the ratio.

I will look for more info on the rearend next time i dive under her. I had to scrape a bunch of grime to find the AB stamp. And that was knowing where to look.

That rear axle is from a 1955-64 passenger car. If the housing is set up for leaf springs, it would be from a 1955-57 year vehicle. 58-64 cars ran coil springs and a different set of axle tubes on a center section with the same bolt pattern for the carrier housing to bolt into. The most recently manufactured versions of that rear end will be 60+ years old, and aftermarket gears and rebuilding parts are anywhere from scarce to nonexistent. It will also have a 5 lug wheel bolt pattern, different from the 6 lug hubs on the front end.

Ditto on the 3 speed overdrive transmission. The SM-319's with the Borg-Warner overdrive are out there somewhere, but you'll have a lot of difficulty finding one that doesn't need a rebuild, or at least freshening up with new bearings, gaskets, etc. The electrical controls, particularly the relay that engages the solenoid, are really scarce. If you're not into doing smoky burnouts with wide cheater slicks on the truck, a T-5 overdrive 5 speed transmission is 50 years newer and it will fit the same bellhousing bolt pattern as the original 3 speed.
My father had a favorite saying- - - -"Automatic transmissions are smarter than all drivers, and most mechanics!" Since he was the first man to work on automatics in Nashville Tennessee in the late 1940's, I think he was qualified to make that assertion.

Since you're not planning to do a numbers-correct restoration anyway, I'd suggest going with a small block V8 of some size, and a 4L60 automatic overdrive transmission. There are programmable stand-alone electronic controllers available that eliminate the need to install the full computer control system it needs to control shift points. RUN- - - -do not walk away from the 4L60's parent trans, the cable controlled 700R4! the Rear end- - - -there are a few versions of a 6 lug axle for S-10 4WD that has a 6 lug bolt pattern and a suitable gear ratio. If you insist on having a standard trans to play with, the T-5 and S-10 rear end play nicely together.

Just one man's opinion- - - -probably worth exactly what it costs you to read it- - - -but it's based on 60+ years of tinkering with these old rust buckets. Good luck!
Jerry

Here is the one I kept. Its 3 speed B W OD. Paired with a 1957
235. The OD is used manually with a cable. I am not sure if the
electronics work or not. I think at 45 MPH the OD kicks and slips the
transmission someway...??/
It worked well in my 58.

Kevin,

Your hard work doesn't go un-noticed.

Thanks for the replies. Both front and back wheels are 5 bolt. I just now looked. I would prefer an automatic to a manual transmission, but I don’t care for the discussion about cutting out the existing tranny bellhouding supporting crossmember to accomodate an automatic. I still have to analyze whether it is true for my girl or not. Also, i would prefer an overdrive gear to make highway driving economical and less of a strain on an engine.

I took pics of this crossmember and noticed several things.
1. The crossmember does not appear to directly support the cab mounts. Not sure where i read this, but the talk was that if you cut the crossmember, the cab mounts are hanging on stubs that will settle over time.
2. My girls crossmember does not appear to be welded in place. I need to do some cleanup, but it appears to be bolted or rivited to the main frame rails.
3. I have seen the tubular tranny/engine crossmember kits that will eliminate the front mounts and support the tranny as well. These kits are bolt in or weld in which is great. However, i still don’t like the idea of cutting out the existing crossmember.

I still need to figure this out. It’s why I’m glad to be here for all y’alls advice and knowledge.

You would add a trany crossmember support, not take away.
It should have 6 lug wheels.

https://www.performanceonline.com/1...YaufuZNjIl8aDhN1aL0TQF9Aw6RoCoBsQAvD_BwE

Gp, are you saying the existing crossmember does not need to be removed to install an sbc with an automatic? I thought i read somewhere that it needs to be cut out. I saw and like those tube crossmembers to support the back of the tranny. I see they have em for the engine as well.

All 4 wheels on my girl are currently 5 bolters. Whats the problem besides trucks often have 6? I had a picture of one of the wheels in my last post. The one with the broken lug. I guess I’ll pull a back and front wheel off to see what was done to convert them to 5.

Sorry if i seem a bit slow. Maybe more than a bit.

K

Are you saying I’ll have a hard time finding pinion/axle seals for this rear end? I can make the gasket

Kevin,

Absolutely nothing wrong with running what you choose for "your" truck!

Your truck having 5 lugs all around just means it was modified from the original "6-lug" design before you got it. It's actually a fairly common conversion. When the passenger car "5-lug" rear axle was installed, the PO (Previous Owner) most likely converted the front hubs to the Chevy passenger car "5-lug hubs" to match everything up (a common change*).

* Here is one of many existing threads in Stovebolt about doing a 5-lug front hub conversion. You can find many more conversations on the subject using this Search the Site link that you will find in the left margin and the top menu bar of Stovebolt web pages. Just click the link and type in the info you want to search and it will provide you a list of links to on-topic posts from the past you can read and learn more from.

I just did a quick web search and found both rear axle shaft and pinion seals for your rear axle readily available from various vendors. Just remember that when you search, you are looking for parts for the 1955-64 "passenger car" rear axle. Truck listings won't match up.

BTW - You can also use the "Search the Site" link above to find previous conversations about what you need for installing an auto transmission. Most if not all of those conversations probably happened in the HiPo Shop forum. A lot of previous "wisdom" and helpful bits of info in those previous posts!!!

Dan

Thanks Dan!
I jacked the drivers rear tire, painted a mark on the tire and pinion. I rotated the tire 10 times. The pinion rotated 17.7 times. I did it twice to make sure my tallies were correct. That puts the gear at 1.77 ??????This car was running a 350 with the original muncie 3 speed when it was last on the road.

If i double the count, i end up with a 3.54 ratio.

Methinks that the 3:54 ratio is right. Never heard of a 1:77.

From what I see, you want to leave this/that. It supports the bell housing before the trany.
I think with a 700R4 you would want that trany bar.

Kevin,

TexasJim50 is correct!

A little searching and I found this thread about determining rear axle gear ratios. Taken from this thread, the correct math would be taking your 17.7 rotations times 2 = 35.40, divided by 10 = 3.54.

I would hazard that there is just a wee bit of fudge factor in your rotation number and that you actually have a 3:55 - 1 ratio. That was stock in the axles installed in passenger cars behind auto transmissions as noted in my earlier post above.

Am sure more folks will chime in about the automatic transmission mount requirements soon.

Dan

Thanks for all the replies. Its been a while for an update. It was fun looking at engines and transmissions that will get me to where I want this truck to be able to drive comfortably. The best combo I found was a Tremec 5 speed with a .64 overdrive gear bolted to a SBC motor. Most of the mileage will be at 55 to 70.

I finally removed all the bed rail bolts and pulled the rails today. When I got to looking at what was supporting the bed I was shocked. There are four bolts remaining that go through the wood and U channel and into the frame. There were eight at one point in time. Problem is, I have removed all the other bolts that connected the bed to the wood boards.😬 It looks like its just hanging in position, ready to drop onto the rear bumper brackets in the rear and the frame rails in the front. Will look again tomorrow to see what I missed. Then I'll put some jacks under the bed if need be.

Next step is to finish getting the steps and rear fenders off. I've gone through my first spray can of Kroil.

Another humorous note comes from my investigation of the existing SM318 clutch fork and pivot ball. Both are well worn. When I looked up the part number for the fork, it appears to come from a 50-54 truck. The pivot ball I could not find. It looks like the Corvette style . The seat I removed comes from some other larger vehicle. All but one of the bolts pulled thru the floor sheet metal. Only a wood block remained attached. Its beginning to look like a Johnny Cash truck.

Happy Labor day!

After a fresh look, the only thing holding the bed up are the two boards (one on each side) that are under the bed side angle brackets. The boards bolted thru to the frame keep those boards and the bed from shifting. I wonder how much those side bed panels and front bed panel weigh? I'm thinking once the fenders are off, two guys can lift the bed off the truck.

I see the front of the bed bolts on to the side panels. The tailgate rail has several welds I will need to cut to get the four bed pieces apart.

It seems there are always other priorities to suck me away from working on "Stella". Yep, I named her. Broken stuff on the daily drivers and then my tractor quit starting. Since I want to procure a larger compressor for body work on Stella, I need that front loader to move it 400 feet from the street to my garage.

I got the Kubota running again but doing more while its in the garage.

The time I did get with Stella, I spent soaking down bolts with penetrant and trying to grow a third arm. Getting the rear fender bolts out without help is real slow. My arms aren't quite long enough.

Still struggling with what to do about a power plant for the ole girl. I decided to pull the heads off the 70's era 350 that came home with her and see how bad it all looks.