The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Early 'Bolts (1916-1936 1st Half) 1927 Chevrolet Capitol 1-ton -- Full frame-off resto

Hmmmmmm..... It starts about like this here ...

A few weeks ago, Ms. Peggy was checking on the Swap Meet ads and noticed our old friend, ODSS founding brother and purveyor of interesting antique iron (Phil, AKA TrknGMC) had listed his '27 Capitol project ... without a price!! (gasp! Shriek!!). Now Peggy and I had always thought an early Stovebolt (um, technically a pre Stovebolt as a 4 cylinder) would be really cool, fun and interesting. But we never pursued it.

Looking back through our history, it seemed the old trucks (with only two minor exceptions) always found us, not vice versa. Starting with the '39 half ton, the '49 2-ton and then the flagship of Stovebolt.com, the '49 1-ton, these orphaned trucks just seemed to find their way to our doorstep.

Who were we to turn them away??

So there it was, newly listed right here on Stovebolt. It caught Margaret's attention as being a gross violation of our Swap Meet rule about putting a price on stuff (who likes window shopping at stuff you don't know what it might takes to bring home???), so she immediately fires an e-rocket at Phil and lights him up. Because its *her* and not *me* he responds with a price...

I'm at work, mind you, trying to navigate the highways and byways of scenic and historic Southern Maryland (in an "antique" truck -- at least by Maryland MVA standards ...) and utterly unable to be a part of any of this. Just minding my own business and happy with the fleet as it is. None the less, There I am, risking life and limb getting an excavator off the trailer, when I'm told (in no uncertain terms) that we just bought a truck.

What????

Note: At this point, Peggy *may* wish to chime in and want to correct the facts as I have laid them out thus far. And that's fine. But tere here is *MY* version. If you don't like how I'm telling this here story, you can do your own Journal post

Ahem, where were we? Ah yes ... What???

So she tells me about it .... most of the hard work is done, just needs to be completed, yadda yadda yadda.

So skip to the chase -- Yes, we indeed consummated the deal and agreed to a pickup up day with the retiring resto guy who had the project until now (and forced the same due to his retirement). It worked out to coincide with the annual ODSS Wrenchfest (only an hour further West!).ODSS brothers Sweet and Hambone went with me to collect the project and figure out how to get it all back to Maryland.

Which is our starting point for this Journal:
-- Inventorying what we have
-- developing a plan

But in the meantime, I just look at a bunch of parts and wonder to myself,

"Self .... What in THE heck have you gotten yourself into now??"

Love the story, and love Peggy’s new project. LOL . Looks like you have the fun part of the restoration with all the hard work done. LOL AGAIN!

Seriously, good luck with your new project, and we’ll all be following!

Sure ... piece of cake ...

All I have to do is put it back together ... Once I figure out what "it" all is ...

Just need to buy that “rare as hens teeth” Factory Assembly Manual! LOL again!

This part is true. The "gasp" and "Shriek" was because I was watching the Swap Meet area while the Moderator (Gdads51 / Dan) was on a Leave of Absence. I only noticed: 1. 1927 truck (hmmm) and 2. NO PRICE listed. -- big no no in the SM Guidelines. It wasn't until after I clicked in that I noticed it was Phil Pierce. Well, hello there.


A little more "inside HQ" ... we had been talking for several months about adding an "Early Trucks" segment in the Parking Lot. Several folks who have the earlier trucks had suggested it. Set that on the pile of "things to get to some day, some where, some how, with some help.

So, me thinks: now with an "Early Truck" ourselves, we can noodle this through a little better. The "some help" turned out to be a thing (truck) rather than a person(s). Delighted to see that the people are showing up (mostly in PMs and emails) and I believe we'll be seeing the Early Trucks forum by next month!

It's also been interesting to now be spotting some of these earlier trucks as part of our HQ routine. When doing another segment in the Stovebolt Annual Reunion - 2012 - that we pulled up Bill "KC Caveman" Alderson's 1926 Chevy 1-ton Flatbed.


I want to add that when I went over to see the truck (Calvin) in the garage, our Mennonite neighbors strolled by. Since I was looking at the cab, I commented that it reminded me of their carriage. The young girl popped her head in and the Mom looked from the backside ... "It sure does." And everyone got a chuckle.

Amazing how stuff just magically grows! I now find myself the owner of, not one, but three Model A's. My original project, the roadster, a coupe and a Tudor. All the while my Burb keeps crying, "Will ya paint me for cripes sake!!!"

John and Peggy,

Welcome to the wonderful, wacky world of the Chevy four cylinder era!

I downloaded your photo of parts and circled the ones I can identify (see my attached pic):

1. Red box is around a rocker arm shaft clamp

2. Green box is around a front spring bumper housing

3. Blue box is around a brake and clutch pedal stop plate. It mounds in between the pedals on the shaft that sticks out of the left side of the transmission.

4. The orange arrows point to clutch adjustment bolts

Ever Onward! Dean

Thanks Dean! I'll post more pics like that!

I think (that always is trouble ...) that the engine is ready to go back in the frame. I am pretty certainly that I can reunite the transmission with the engine because I removed the one from the parts engine and took pictures!). Hopefully, the engine rebuilder aligned the clutch for me

But what will I need to do that? i.e., engine mounts? I have the bracket (inverted U) that mounts the front of the engine, but is there a rubber part I need?

And I see where the bell housing horns attach, but again, are there rubber parts needed?

Is lifting the engine via that oh so conveniently placed hole in the middle of the block or or am I going to damage it that way?


Whacky? I'll say .....

What does that hole look like? If it's threaded into the top of the cylinder head, you should be safe with threading an eyebolt in there. You'd be surprised how much weight a 1/4" bolt can hold. Put a jam nut on there so the engine doesn't unthread itself when you lift it.

Kevin ... Perhaps I misstated ... Its not a hole *in* the block. It's about a 2 inch square hole *through* the block, beneath the water jacket and between cylinders 2 and 3. It allows the spark advance linkage to pass through from the distributor to the base of the steering column.

See the photo below -- I took a chance and lifted the parts engine this way.

AH! Now I understand. You could surely lift the rebuilt engine that way, but you'd mess up the nice paint job on it.

I'm thinking an axle saver run through there ...

I don't know if it is safe to hoist the engine using the gap in between cylinders 2 and 4 as the lifting point. Keep in mind that these four bangers weigh around 600 pounds.

Oh, something that is VERY important. The 1/2" head bolts DO NOT have 13 threads per inch. They have 12!

BTW, no rubber on the engine or transmission mounts.

If it were me, I'd put the engine on a stand, take off the oil pan, and do an inspection before dropping the engine into the truck. Here's why I would do this:

1. On Justin (my '28 Canopy Express), the previous owner assembled the engine after the block got done at the machinist shop. ALL the bearing caps were just finger tight! Luckily, they had cotter pins on the nuts, but imagine what would've happened if the pins were not there (shudder). This discovery let me to adjusting the bearing caps (removing or adding shims) to get the proper clearance around the crankshaft and tightening the bearing caps before putting the cotter pins in.

2. Having the oil pan off is a great opportunity to make sure that all the oil reservoirs that feed the cam and main bearings are clean and not full of sludge. Again, Justin's reservoirs were full of crud, so I don't have a lot of respect for the machine shop that worked on the block or the mechanical ability of the previous owner.

3. A new set of oil pan gaskets (either store bought or homemade) will help in preventing oil leakage. Getting the gaskets to stay in place around the front and rear main bearing caps is challenging. Here's what I do to make it work: https://vccachat.org/ubbthreads.php/topics/394210/re-resurrecting-a-28-4-banger.html#Post394210

4. Make sure the little wedge-shaped cover plates are in place to cover the gap between the flywheel cover and the block. For more info, read this part of my engine rebuild adventure from 2017: https://vccachat.org/ubbthreads.php/topics/400512/re-resurrecting-a-28-4-banger.html#Post400512

5. Check that the oil troughs in the oil pan are positioned properly so that the tangs on the rod caps actually dip into the troughs to create the oil mist that is necessary for all the internal oiling of the engine. Here's the procedure I followed for Lurch's engine: https://vccachat.org/ubbthreads.php/topics/394209/re-resurrecting-a-28-4-banger.html#Post394209

6. Who knows how long this engine has been sitting after it was rebuilt. While the oil pan is off, I suggest squirting some 10-30W oil around all the bearings before closing up the bottom end and smearing some assembly grease around the cam lobes.

Aside from the above stuff about the bottom end, make sure that all bolt threads that go through the block and stick into the 'splash zone' of the oil mist have some thread sealer on them. I used Permetex #3.

Has the pilot bearing been replaced? Maybe stick a new one in there just to be safe.

Regarding the alignment of the clutch, I seem to remember that a wood pilot bearing tool from an AD pickup is the correct size for the old four bangers. ;-)

Does your truck have the original carbon plate throwout bearing? I suggest replacing it with a newer-style permanently sealed ball bearing type of throwout bearing. The carbon disks tended to overheat and cause issues. The newer style definitely gives you peace of mind against this problem.

When you put the transmission in place, it will be loose between the chassis rails. There are 1/8" shim plates that drop down over the mounting bolts that will take up the slack and make for a tight fit. See the pic below for a view of the shims I'm talking about.

Speaking of putting the tranny in, make sure the truck is up on jack stands and the rear stands are supporting the chassis, not the rear axle. This will allow the rear end to hang down far enough to provide more space for getting the u-joint bolted together. This goes for any vehicle that has a torque tube.

That's all that I can think of at the moment.

Cheers, Dean

If the block was that weak not to be able to hoist thru there, then the block probably wouldn't be strong enough to run.

Congrats on your new project! You're off to a great start with that one! A heckuva lot more to work with than my '28 LO.

Very cool truck, John. That red will look amazing when it’s assembled. Assembly manual? I think you should try to find and buy another one just like it for a “puzzle box” to see how it goes together! 😁

That would be the worlds most expensive Assembly Manual! 🤣

Dean .... Great. Thanks. I wonder who I gave my engine stand to .,...

Brian ... Hmmm ... I may have some left overs you could use ...

Fox -- That thought *has* crossed my mind. Either that or providing Dean an all expenses covered vacation to the East Coast ...

Man!! All of this is starting to sound like work.

Building an old truck like that doesn't count as work.

Use a big V belt (like one for a garden tractor belly mower blade drive) looped through the gap in the block and tied into a choker as a lifting device that won't scar up the paint. That's how we handled Cummins crankshafts with a forklift, putting them between centers on the crankshaft grinder. They weigh 700 lbs. or more.

If that "parts" engine can find its way to Tennessee, I know a crochety old curmudgeon who can build it up into a spare short block.
Jerry

Dean -- Throwout bearing ....

Just want to confirm -- The thing I'm holding in the picture is what you're talking about, yes?

Thx,
John

That's part of the throw out bearing assembly. If you buy the newer-style throw out bearing assembly, this part gets replaced, as you'll see below.

In the transmission bell housing is the throw out bearing actuator arm. At the inner end of the arm is a round clamp that holds the carbon disc (the throw out bearing itself). Here's a new carbon disc (from the Filling Station's web catalog): https://store.fillingstation.com/detail/AF-91/Chevrolet_19271928_CLUTCH_THRUST_CARBON_DISC.html

Here's the newer throw out bearing assembly, where you can see that the carbon disk has been replaced with a ball bearing: https://store.fillingstation.com/detail/CV-102/Chevrolet_192531_THROW_OUT_BEARING_CONVERSION.html

No machining is required to use the new bearing assembly. ;-)

Cheers, Dean

Thanks Dean -- so the throw out bearing conversion piece fits into the end of the actuator arm where the carbon disc is?

I have a shop manual on order.

Now for the next round of "Name That Part!"

... On the push rod covers ... am I right in thinking that the '27 didn't use side covers??

You asked: "so the throw out bearing conversion piece fits into the end of the actuator arm where the carbon disc is?"
Yes. Instructions come with the new throw out bearing assembly.

Regarding the photos:

1. Dunno. Maybe a gas tank strap from a car, not a truck. The gas tank goes under the seat in the cab. The correct straps have a 5/16" T bolt riveted at both ends of each strap. There should be tank cross members on the chassis to support the gas tank.

2. Possibly cab parts. Not sure.

3. The rail on the far left is for a floor board support for the slanted boards that go from the firewall to the cab floor. The top board will have a hole for the pedals. I have no idea about the other parts.

4. The other support for the slanted floor boards.

5. The push rod covers are for 1928 only. You'll see that your head has side lips that would contact the side of these covers, but the block does not. Those side lips on the head continue down to the block on a '28 block and the '28 block has the bolt holes for those covers.

6. Two things to note about this side view of the engine.

A - The hole in the flyhweel cover is where you should see a U|C when the first cylinder is at TDC on the compression stroke. There is another mark on the flywheel for 25 degrees before TDC. You'll use these marks to statically time the distributor.

B - The top radiator connection is from the '27 engine. If you want a thermostat, get a '28 radiator connector, which can house it.

Cheers, Dean

Thanks Dean! On the gas tank straps, I have the correct ones -- they were easy enough to figure out

I've been looking at a LOT of pictures on line -- those classic car dealers are great because they post a lot of pictures of even the basket cases/barn finds. I've identified a lot of stuff so far just by studying a lot of those detailed photos. I may need Lurch to help me put all the radiator pieces together... a few pictures of all of that would probably be helpful to determine which pieces to start running through the blast cabinet and which ones don't belong.

I've started wondering if I have car-specific parts thrown in here ....

At the moment, the chassis is serving as a workbench. As you can see in the pictures, I have all my drip pans on it holding parts and a pallet. Slowly, I am cleaning it off as I identify and organize parts back into bins. One of the big things I'm jazzed about is the bed hardware -- but I'll save that for a later journal entry...

Are there any go-to vendors besides The Filling Station and ebay for parts?

I appreciate the thought, but I've got that covered. A friend of mine gave me all of the stuff he had. He needed to move it all from Texas to Washington and didn't have the space to store it at his new home. The attached photos don't show the engine blocks, transmissions, fenders and other stuff. I stopped at accepting a '25 truck frame.

Brian -- your collection looks like mine!

Here's the parts sources that I'm aware of. There are probably more.

1. The Filling Station - https://www.fillingstation.com/

2. Gary Wallace - http://earlychevyparts.com/ (he has a good stash of used parts)

3. Marx Parts - https://marxparts.com/repro%20chevy.htm

4. Billy Possem - http://www.billypossum.com/Catalog/Catalog.php

There are folks that advertise in the VCCA's monthly magazine (Generator and Distributor) who have parts.

Also, a good source is to advertise what you want in the Parts Wanted forum on the VCCA website - https://vccachat.org/ubbthreads.php/forums/26/1/parts-wanted.html

Dean

HUGE day in the shop today!

I *finally* got the parts inventory done and all the pieces sorted and off the frame. Turns out what I have here represents three trucks and two cars ... Possibly three cars, who knows?? I have parts sorted as to where they go or as "Who the heck knows what this is???" The unknown bin is actually not too big (and getting smaller) at this point, thanks to Dean!

So as of today, I can actually start moving forward. Next steps are to clean and touch up the chassis, inspect the engine and then remate it with the transmission and work on the driveline.

After that ... start working on all the linkages.

Toward that end ... a very important bit of intelligence came my way over the weekend... There exists within St. Mary's County, a barn find (i.e., unrestored and unmolested) 1931 truck that is available to me as a resource. I'm hoping to learn a lot from it.

John,
Dean sent me a link to your thread. Looks like you have a pretty good project going there. I have a 28LO I am working on. Real basket case when I started. Two years in now and it actually is starting to look like a truck. I'll try to stay following along. I was going to chime in earlier to help with questions, but it seems like Dean has most of your questions answered.

Sounds like you have a pretty good amount of extra parts and I am actually looking for a few items yet. Any group pictures of what you may have extra that I can run my eyes over?
A couple things I could use are door latches, and looking for good trim pieces that go around the gauges. A dash light and rearview mirror. My seat frames are garbage, but if you'd have those shipping would be ugly. I'm sure there are other odds and ends, but that's what comes to mind in the moment.

Going to be a nice adder to your collection. Keep up the good work!
David

Hi David!

I'm still cataloging what I have. I *do* have extra gauge bezels... not sure if they are "good" though. I'll be back over there tomorrow and I'll take a look. Not sure about the dash light and a "no" on the mirror and seat frame. Are you talking about the base that covers the fuel tank? or the actual seat parts themselves?

I have an extra door latch (the cab side) but I'm not sure it's any good. It still has the vertical cab shell piece attached to it.

A couple of things I need ...

Headlight lenses and trim rings
Windshield upper part hardware

Question:

What do the trim pieces look like that cover the seams between the cab sheet metal parts?

Nice to meet you!
Got pics of your project?

John,
I may have a 27 headlight trim ring. I will have to see what kind of shape it's in. They can be carefully straightened and polished up nice. I have the 28 rings and got one of mine to turn out good, but the other I think I will need to replace. Gary Wallace has the lenses and gaskets in reproduction. If I recall the lenses are $25 each and the gasket set is $15.
I have no hardware for the upper windshield.
I was going to private message you on the other items and for pictures, but I guess I am not a high enough level member to do that (so it told me anyway) so if you want to send me your email maybe you can PM me?
I will get a picture of the trim piece for the seam. It is basically a rolled sheet metal 'C' channel with screw holes in it.
David

Hey! One more post and you can PM. It only takes 4 and then on your fifth post, you are a Member and not just a User.



Peggy M here

I guess to just to say thanks Peggy does it then!

David,

No thanks really. It an automatic thing.

John is over at the garage taking pictures and what not on the '27 (Calvin). Got an "o no" text a little while ago. I'm sure he'll have some to report when he gets back.

A day of discovery today in the shop...

And "oh no" is right. As I was rigging the engine to go onto the engine stand (to flip it over and inspect the lower end), I discovered that the ring gear had not been installed on the flywheel ... Hmmm.

So ... even more emphasis on what Dean has suggested about inspecting everything. If whoever rebuilt this engine neglected to install the ring gear on the flywheel before installing the flywheel and clutch assembly ....

.... what else have they neglected to do?

So I installed the engine in the frame anyway as it clears up some floor space and it will make it easier (for me ... Jerry and I had a "conversation" about this earlier...) to deal with the flywheel rather than having to kneel down to floor level or wrestle the flywheel out from between the engine and the engine stand mount.

I had also thought the engine was locked up. Turns out it isn't. Yay.

So ... next step is to get the pressure plate and clutch assembly off the flywheel, and then remove the flywheel so I can install the ring gear. Which, as it turns out, I have. Hanging on the wall ...

Also ... today I discovered that some of these parts came from a hearse. Hmmmm.

Good catch at this stage!

I suggest that you make sure the flywheel is orientated properly (with respect to the crankshaft) before you take it off. There is no 'pin' that orients the flywheel correctly to the crankshaft. You want to make sure the timing marks are in the proper place. The flywheel can bolt on in six different positions.

Turn the engine via the hand crank until you have cylinder one at Top Dead Center (TDC) on the compression stroke. Watch the valves to determine when that cylinder is on the compression stroke. You can stick a wood dowel in the spark plug hole to feel when the piston reaches its top position.

When cylinder one is at TDC, check to see that the U|C mark on the flywheel is showing in the inspection window in the cast iron flywheel housing. There should be a pointer in the middle of the window.

If the U|C mark is at the needle, the flywheel is in the correct position. ;-) If this is the case, make some punch marks on the end of the crankshaft and on the flywheel so when you take it off, you know where to line up those marks when you put it back.

If the U|C is not in the window, you can paint a line on the flywheel and then disregard the casting mark or take the flywheel off and move it around until it is oriented correctly.

Here's a link to where I described mounting the flywheel during Lurch's engine rebuild: https://vccachat.org/ubbthreads.php/topics/392749/re-resurrecting-a-28-4-banger.html#Post392749

For anyone who wants to read the whole adventure of the engine rebuild, here's a link to the beginning of it: Resurrecting a 1928 Chevy four banger

Cheers, Dean

Using the hand crank would eliminate the need for even installing the ring gear John. If you can't do it maybe Peggy???

I can't do EVERYTHING ...