The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay 12v battery in a 6volt system

So a few weeks ago I picked up a '48 3800 and was told it's all original and had been updated to a 12v system. Brought it home and dug into it to only find out its not the same engine (1953 216) which isn't that big of a deal but after having some starting electrical issues I believe that I have found that it's still the original 6v system with a 12v battery dropped in! Double checked the alternator and it's the 6v DR and the condenser looks newer but the coil is pretty beat up. Super frustrating not knowing 100% what is going on....

Ok thank you...rant over lol

The Bubba is strong with this one!

Nothing wrong with 6v, though. Hopefully the gauges haven't been damaged.

Put a 6v battery in it and make sure it has 00 gauge battery cables. You'll get it sorted out.

By alternator, do you mean DC Generator?

Pause ... deep breath ... we've all been there. I'm with Otto on the guages...

After my 54 was delivered, I found out why they were so accomidating, it smoked like a freight train under load. I had the engine over hauled soon after it it threw a rod.

CBall Don't worry about changes by PO I'd go with 12 volt system fix it right on up.

Almost everything I have sold on line goes something like this. Wow, your the first guy who didn't lie and tell me its something its not.

Then they buy it.

The first thing I do when showing somebody something to buy is tell them all the bad stuff and point out all the flaws and damage - even stuff nobody would notice.

You can never really know what is in a used truck regardless of what the previous owner says and it only gets more challenging as the vehicles get older.

I always am honest with what I know and what I don't but I am sure that some people that have purchased vehicles from me find something that I did not disclose. Unless you have an intimate knowledge of every parts on a used vehicle there is no way you can know/disclose everything.

In your case 12v conversions can be sketchy depending on who did the work and how much depth they went into. My 1950 was claimed to be converted but I didn't care as the electrical was all being stripped out and replaced anyway. Engines that are not original are pretty common on trucks of this vintage as back in the day engines didn't last as long as they do now and it was cleaper to swap something from the junk yard than rebuild even with parts and labor costs what they were back then.

I am going to continue to just convert it/replace the necessary components to a 12v system. I figured this out during some trouble shooting after getting the motor spinning and not getting any spark so a new coil and condenser are already on the list of replacement parts. Will most likely leave the generator for the moment but at least get some spark. And then get a voltage regulator for the gauges. I agree, hopefully the gauges are not shot.

If the issues you mention are all that's wrong, you're doing well. There is nothing wrong with six-volt systems on these trucks, unlike some others like big cube GMCs and I-Hs. Unless you want to add 12V accessories, it would be just fine to get a good quality six volt battery and troubleshoot from there. Unless you have automotive electrical experience, the details of a 12V conversion will drive you to distraction. With a 12V battery, and a 6V generator to charge it, the battery might have gone dead soon enough so as not to damage the gauges. It would have burned out the light bulbs in short order though. Do they work? If they're 6V and OK then the rest of the system probably is too. I say probably. Maybe nobody turned on the lights since the 12 V battery was put in. Maybe it was dead when they put it in, in which case you lucked out all around.

I did check the headlights and they do still work and the battery doesn't look new new, so I think like you mentioned Tommy that I will check the bulbs and see what they look like. It would be easier to just get a 6v battery than mess around with everything....

Just a note here that as this has pretty much settled into a topic best further discussed in the "Electrical Shop", I have moved it here for further discussion.

Dan

My conversation would go something like this:

Me: "Tell me about the truck."

Them: "It's all original. It has been upgraded to 12 volt."

"So, it's not all original. These things came from the factory as a 6 volt. What else is not original??".........

My 39 "ran when i parked it"... but the engine, transmission and rear end were all full of water... dude lived on a hill, so not sure if it got flooded, or just rained on (Oregon).

Not a lot of "messing around" to convert to 12V. I recommend you convert. Bulbs, one voltage reducer, one alternator, one coil, one ballast resistor. Probably about the same price or less than a new 6V battery. 12V is WAY less trouble finding parts in the future and a long list of advantages.
The owner told you it was all original. You could look and determine that before purchase. He said it was converted. Many folks don't know how to do that. No crime in that, you may not know how either. So there is nothing to be frustrated about. Refurbishing old vehicles has some frustration now and then. It's fun and fulfilling most of the time. If this frustrates you, with all the help available here, you need to take up another hobby. Gather your Engineering experience and confidence, this is small potatoes. Many older trucks have a different/upgraded motor. That is no big deal. That can be a good thing.

1. Can we help you analyze this new truck's electrical before you do anything more? You will need a multimeter or voltmeter. Later we will help you wire it 6V or 12V. It all depends on if you have time and can respond with results.

2. Does it run?

3. You say you had "starting electrical issues". What exactly does that mean?

4. I realize, so far, you are not asking for help. Sometimes we rush in too fast. A rant is just fine but belongs in the spoon/rants . We ourselves have morphed it to electrical. There is no electrical question pending.

I came to despise the previous owner of my truck.

“Poo” happens.

Just buy a complete mess of a project....like I did. Then you are completely in control of your own destiny, so the blame is on your shoulders.
But when done, you'll know every nut and bolt and how to fix it.

!2 volt battery in a 6 volt equipped truck will only burn out light bulbs. It won't damage an ammeter or the gas gauge. They might not read exactly correct, but 12 volts won't damage them.
12 volts without a ballast resistor will greatly reduce the lifetime of the points.

CBall I don't see how your 6 volt regulator can take that 12 volt battery,my first move on any new to me truck is alternator,bulbs,HEI (now),heater fan motor,maybe use NAPA voltage reducers on the heater,same heater switch.

I am responding to the title of this thread although it was moved to the Electrical Forum. If not appropriate, please delete.

For the most part, Sellers want to sell and may or not be an expert. Buyers want to buy, and may or may not be an expert. Ultimately, Buyers are responsible for their decision.

If you do this long enough you may stumble into a deal of a lifetime and come out on the winning end. And…at times may pay more and feel like you were taken advantage of or on the losing end; whether intentional or not.

Multiple trucks, tractors, motors, tools, and machines have come and gone. For each that have arrived in the yard I viewed them as a ‘kit’ and didn’t place or have high expectations. If it’s as described or better; then I am pleasantly surprised.

But, I learned to temper my expectations and do my best to reduce the errors in my decision making when acquiring old metal and things that go bang and have had a hard long life.

Conversely I do my best to describe what I sell but I can’t remember every misaligned thread, a past repair I may not have noticed, or a thin spot in sheet metal. This is old and worn stuff.

As some suggested here: find as much interest in the process of buying, keeping and fixing, and selling. There is as much value in the process of learning as there is in the ownership or acquisition of an old truck. After awhile your buying skills will improve and as your expertise increases you can trust your decision making skills more and place more trust on your knowledge rather than putting the responsibility on the seller. In the end - it’s the buyer that lives with their decision and is accountable for their research.

Either way - smile - this is a fun and interesting pursuit whether as an avocation or hobby.

So There isn't that much harm in running it on 12 volts? I was worried because I wasn't getting any spark but found the coil to still be good, and the point looked ok and I gapped it appropriately so I presumed it would be the condenser then, but maybe I wasn't spinning it long enough to get a spark? I was going to wait to swap out to a 6v battery to continue trouble shooting but I was worried that I would end up damaging something. Maybe the PO did use it with a 12v battery but just drove it and didn't use the lights or anything else ??? Who knows... So I should be able to do the same then???

At different times you've described your charging system as having an "alternator" and again as a "generator". Which one is actually there? 6V alternators are pretty scarce items, and any kind of 6V charging system cannot keep a 12V battery charged. It will take me about 5 minutes with a voltmeter and an ammeter to figure out if the electrical system you have is appropriate to your needs. Come visit my place at your convenience, or we can meet somewhere. We're only about 40 miles apart.
Jerry

Here is a picture of it. I believe it is a generator, plate says Delco L100018 I believe. I am just looking to get it running and not use it long term.

Yes, that's a generator. But it isn't going to do much generating with the wiring in that shape. Pretty deteriorated and likely to cause shorts if it touches metal.

I already re-wired the engine bay of any deteriorated wires and didn't have a new picture.

No reason you can't expect to use it long term. I've been driving a '56 Cadillac with a 12v DC generator for over 20 years. As long as you aren't adding a bunch electric crap to your truck, 6v and 12v generators work just fine.

The ID tag is too deteriorated to tell the color of paint it had originally, but the number appears to cross reference to a 6V generator for a 1953-54 Corvette. 6V Delco electrical parts had black painted ID tags- - -12V tags are red. It cannot recharge a 12V battery.
Jerry