I also am building a 261 (1957) very similar to Chronamyd except solid lifters. Where can I purchase a suitable camshaft? I would like a stock type 261 solid lifter camshaft. Can anyone suggest where I can purchase a GM 3836484, Elgin E-293s, Sealed Power CS-293, Engine Pro MC-293 or Melling equivalent. I have been told the Melling to the 3836484 is CCS-29. Has anyone used their CCS-1 camshaft in a 261? Thanks Bob
CCS-1 Melling and Elgin E-293S are usually available on Ebay. They're also listed by Auto Zone, O'Reilly, and Advance Auto Parts. The Elgin cam is virtually a clone of the 261/Corvette cam- - - -same duration and lift, with a slightly different lash specification. The Melling cam has a little more exhaust duration than the Elgin cam. I'm currently building engines with both of those cams, but I don't have any dyno run figures yet. Depending on the current supply of new core cams for the manufacturers to grind, they're occasionally "out of stock". Putting a "long duration- - -high lift" cam in a stovebolt engine is a lost cause- - - - -the port shape and valve arrangement in the cylinder head makes it virtually impossible to get enough RPM and compression to take advantage of a radical cam. Take anything Clifford claims with a big grain of salt- - - - -the easiest way to make horsepower on paper instead of on a dyno is to lie about it! Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
A general comment on cam choice: First, decide at what RPM range you want the engine to operate most efficiently. That will be dictated by things like rear axle ratio, tire size, city or highway use. Second, what maximum RPM do you need to enter the next higher gear with some reasonable torque available. For example a SM420 drops about 50% between gears, so if you want to have torque available on the 2-3 shift you might rev to 4000 RPM to come into 3rd at 2000 RPM. That would be necessary only with a fairly long duration cam -- much hotter than a 261 cam, say 220 deg. @ 0.050 lift. BTW my experience shows that such a cam gives a nice torque rise from 2600 on up but the fire goes out below about 2500.
From this analysis you can determine compression ratio requirements and carb size, both limited by stovebolt head design.
1951 3800 1-ton "Earning its keep from the get-go" In the DITY Gallery 1962 261 (w/cam, Fenton headers, 2 carbs, MSD ign.), SM420 & Brown-Lipe 6231A 3spd aux. trans, stock axles & brakes. Owned since 1971.
I would like to purchase an Elgin-293s camshaft or equivalent, but so far have not been able find one. Have tried the usual sources, Ebay, Rock auto, Summit, Jeg's, NAPA, O'Reill, Advance auto, Partshawk, enginepartsshop. I would appreciate any other sources to try. Any idea when or if new cam cores would become available? I may have a line on a Melling CCS-1 but they only list it for a 235, will this camshaft work well?
Phil Moderator, The Engine Shop, Interiors and Project Journals
1952 Chevrolet 3100, Three on the Tree, 4:11 torque tube Updated to: ‘59 235 w/hydraulic lifters, 12v w/alternator, HEI, PCV and Power front Disc Brakes Project Journals Stovebolt Gallery Forum
1Ton_tommy I just want a stock performance, reliable 261 engine. I purchased a rebuilt engine that was run without oil pressure damaging the bearings, cam and lifters. When oil pressure was finally obtained the engine was run for about 1:45. It did not seize, just made a lot of sludge. I am sending the block out for cleaning to remove the resulting contamination and installation of new cam bearings. I will install a spare crankshaft with new bearings and new lifters that I have in hand. Just need a camshaft. Considering the Melling CCS-1 if I get any positive feedback on its performance in a 261.
The CCS-1 has a slightly longer exhaust lobe duration than the Elgin cam. That will provide better cylinder scavenging without any real downside. Both of them offer better performance than the standard 235 solid lifter cam, without seriously compromising idle quality or low end torque. JEGS shows the CCS-1 in stock as of a few minutes ago at a pretty good price. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
I just want a stock performance, reliable 261 engine. I purchased a rebuilt engine that was run without oil pressure damaging the bearings, cam and lifters. When oil pressure was finally achieved the engine was run for about 1 ½ hours, it did not seize but generated a lot of sludge. I am sending the block out for cleaning to remove the resulting contamination and installation of new cam bearings. I will install a spare crankshaft with new bearings and new lifters that I have in hand. Just need a camshaft. Considering Melling CCS1 depending on the feedback I get here.
Hotrod Lincoln Thank you for your information. Your input is highly regarded. Jeg’s is listing it as shipping from the manufacturer 03/30/23 pending availability but I might have one in Canada if you say it will work well or should I wait for an Elgin E-261s to show up?
I've spoken directly with the tech department at Elgin a few times, and apparently their supplier of core cams for the stovebolt six is a little intermittent. I haven't done any dyno testing on the Melling cam, but it looks pretty good on paper. I'm about to modify one to fit the 235 small journal block that was once a spray oiler engine by turning the bearing journals down to the smaller diameter. I'm modifying that one to accept a pressure-oiled crankshaft and rods from a later model 235. The same procedure will work to put the Corvette/261 cam into a 216 block. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
No.1300 Found a ccs-1 on amazon about a month ago,it said last one,ordered it in looks fine,parkerized black finish on it. Ordered in lifters they are chinese solids with not enough crown compared to some 50 year old never used lifter barrels from a much older time. Plan to see about refinishing some worn lifters,the machine I saw for that doesn't put a radius (as in 50 inch circle on the lifter) It does leave the lifter face higher in the center. So jury is still out on that one!
I also am building a 261 (1957) very similar to Chronamyd except solid lifters. Where can I purchase a suitable camshaft? I would like a stock type 261 solid lifter camshaft. Can anyone suggest where I can purchase a GM 3836484, Elgin E-293s, Sealed Power CS-293, Engine Pro MC-293 or Melling equivalent. Thanks Bob
I bought the cam & lifters for my 261 from local NAPA about a year ago.
BC 1960 Chevy C10 driver 261 T5 4.10 dana 44 power loc 1949 GMC 250 project in waiting 1960 C60 pasture art Retired GM dealer tech. 1980 - 2022
BC59 Thanks: I tried a small NAPA outlet in Northern Minnesota last week and they said their 2291293 cam which is a Sealed Power CS293 unit was not currently available. I have a set of NOS GM solid lifters and a set obtained from Patrick's in Arizona before they went under. So, I just need to find a suitable camshaft.
Just buy a Melling CCS-1 and don't get OCD about it. It's a good solid lifter cam and is almost identical to the original 261 camshaft. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Have you considered having your cam reground by one of the cam suppliers? If billets are now in short supply that might be a work around. Some, likely will resurface lifters too.
1951 3800 1-ton "Earning its keep from the get-go" In the DITY Gallery 1962 261 (w/cam, Fenton headers, 2 carbs, MSD ign.), SM420 & Brown-Lipe 6231A 3spd aux. trans, stock axles & brakes. Owned since 1971.
Schneider cams in sandiego is one place that will regrind your cam. One of the last of the classic cam companies. They have supplied my last couple of cams and I have not had a single failure.
Thanks Dragsix for that information. I considered that option but shipping across the border can have challenges. I was able to find a Melling CCS-1 cam in Montreal of all places. It is not quite what I wanted but I have been told it will work well. Thanks to all for your input. I will most likely have more questions as I progress through this engine refresh.
Stovebold6, looking at your cam sheet, I'd say that's a pretty good cam for pulling at around 2600-2800 RPM. My Crower has split timing advanced 4 deg and 220deg duration at 0.050 and the fire starts to die below about 2600. If I had it to do over again I'd cut the intake duration about 10deg and retard the exhaust timing a little to keep the exhaust manifold and pipes a little cooler, also less noise.
1951 3800 1-ton "Earning its keep from the get-go" In the DITY Gallery 1962 261 (w/cam, Fenton headers, 2 carbs, MSD ign.), SM420 & Brown-Lipe 6231A 3spd aux. trans, stock axles & brakes. Owned since 1971.
My understanding is the Mellling CCS-1 and the Elgin equivalent are based on the 59 and later GM design that produced improved torque. Those are solid lifter cams.
Is there a hydraulic grind that would more or less match the performance characteristics of the CCS-1 and equivalent?
Given the total lack of quality control of the hydraulic lifters that have been produced recently, would there be any good reason to put a juice cam in a stovebolt engine? Melling makes one called a CCS-2 that's hydraulic, and has similar timing and lift to the solid cam.
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Given the total lack of quality control of the hydraulic lifters that have been produced recently, would there be any good reason to put a juice cam in a stovebolt engine? Melling makes one called a CCS-2 that's hydraulic, and has similar timing and lift to the solid cam.
Some cam specs include clearance ramps in the "valve open" numbers, before the valve actually begins to move. The Elgin cam is that way- - - -at least the one I degreed a while back was. Actual hands-on VS internet- - - -again. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Spent about an hour last night googling the usual places for the CCS-1 or the Elgin for my 235 build. No dice, out of stock everywhere. Then this morning I clicked on it through Walmart, of all places. Wife has an online account and orders alot from them. Well whadya know, says 1 left of the CCS-1, so I had her order it. Hopefully their online inventory is correct and it'll indeed show up at my house a week from tomorrow (March 23).
The question then will become which cam bearings do I order for my '55 235? (It uses main bearings without the locator dowel in the top block bearing half, if that's a clue. Bottom cap bearing does have the dowel. Maybe that makes it a late '55 block, I'm not sure. Casting no. 3733949)
Matthew 6:33
1952 Chevy 1/2-ton 3100 Late '55 235/SM420/torque tube 3.55 Dalton Highway survivor (using original 216) www.truckwithaheart.com
That will be a late 55 with the big cam bearings. The bearing set is a Federal-Mogul 1170M or the equivalent part number from another manufacturer. To the best of my knowledge, nobody is making new camshafts with the small bearing sizes used on the earlier engines.
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
That will be a late 55 with the big cam bearings. The bearing set is a Federal-Mogul 1170M or the equivalent part number from another manufacturer. To the best of my knowledge, nobody is making new camshafts with the small bearing sizes used on the earlier engines.
Actually, I believe all the pressure-oiled 235's had the large journal camshaft. The 216 and spray-oiler 235 engines used the cam with the small diameter bearings. Since the small journal cams are so scarce, it's possible to machine the bearing journals of a late model cam down and install it in the earlier block. I'm building an engine based on an early 235 block right now that will have a later model rotating assembly and an Elgin Corvette/261 grind cam, so the title paperwork on the vehicle won't have to be altered. With a little creative whittling on a few vital parts, a lot of stuff that's not supposed to fit can be mated up to work together. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Then this morning I clicked on it through Walmart, of all places....Well whadya know, says 1 left of the CCS-1, so I had her order it. Hopefully their online inventory is correct and it'll indeed show up at my house a week from tomorrow (March 23).
Being able to buy a cam for a vintage engine at a supermarket blows my mind as a German - makes me feel like I'm living in a third world country
Being able to buy a cam for a vintage engine at a supermarket blows my mind as a German - makes me feel like I'm living in a third world country
Turned out to not be available after all.
Walmart's online ordering seems to be trying to compete with Amazon. Likely shipped from a separate vendor, doubt you'd find such engine parts in a Walmart warehouse or store, they just make it available on their website.
Matthew 6:33
1952 Chevy 1/2-ton 3100 Late '55 235/SM420/torque tube 3.55 Dalton Highway survivor (using original 216) www.truckwithaheart.com
Given lack of availablity for both the CCS-1 and the Elgin 293, what would be the downside to running a plain old 235-specific cam in my 235? That's an odd question because if that's what's intended for a 235 there shouldn't be a downside. After running a 216 for so many years a newly rebuilt stock cam 235 should still blow my mind right?
Thats ASSUMING a 235 cam can be found, who knows.
Matthew 6:33
1952 Chevy 1/2-ton 3100 Late '55 235/SM420/torque tube 3.55 Dalton Highway survivor (using original 216) www.truckwithaheart.com
Other 261 GM # 3836484 or 1954 Corvette 3836390 equivalent camshafts you might look for are Sealed Power CS293, Engine Pro MC293, Manley MS293, McQuay-Norris CM293, Republic TC133, Napa 2291293, Dana 2291293. I could not find any of the above, but keep looking you may get lucky. As Dragsix indicated earlier, a regrind is a good alternative and you are not too far from Schneider cams in San Diego. If you can find a new 235 camshaft and lifters, go for it, they will perform as designed.
If you have a used cam that is not totally worn out, have it reground. I like Schneider Cams in San Diego. They can regrind your stock cam to stock specs, or as wild as the core can take, or anything in between. The GM cams were of very good quality metal wise and over the years I have had quite a few reground. In fact I still have a motor I guilt back in the middle 80s with a cam that Chet Herbert reground to .480 280 specs. So there is a pretty good range available for a regrind. New cam blanks are sparse and have been for a while and who knows what the metallurgy looks like. So a regrind may be a very good choice.
