The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Big Bolts 57 6500 made it home

Got her home today. It runs, drives, dump seems to work (only lifted it about 12 inches and then put it down and disengaged the PTO, 2 speed rear seems to work (Didn't drive it much, on/off trailer and into my garage). Brakes do nothing, pedal goes to floor, gas pedal sticks etc. Parking brake worked good enough for the little driving I did. The plate on the door says 18000 lbs. It is a 6503 based on the VIN. It has 8.25x20 tires on 6 lug wheels. From what I had read in the 1957 Chevy truck info on gm heritage center I was expecting 22.5 wheels but maybe these were an option.

So, it needs a new battery, the seller said it needed a gas tank (has an outboard motor tank hooked up sitting on passenger floorboard currently), brake work, driver door adjusted to close better (have to slam it and it is sagging), work on the roll up windows and most likely new tires. Guessing the rubber on these is pretty hard or degraded and not really road worthy. Will definitely need to change all fluids and get a new air filter.

Anyone know if there is a filter that fits in the old oil based air filter canister?

22.5” tires are a direct replacement for 20” tires, 22.5’s are tubeless so no dealing with split rims which many service people cannot or will not deal with. Just need to get proper wheels. Are your wheels Budd(stud centric) or hub centric. You will need to know that when searching for wheels. Nice truck.

Ed

Welcome to the stovebolt world. It never ceases to amaze me of how many sweet "garage queen" grain trucks appear. Your project looks like a nice one! Rebuilding the brakes on bigbolts can be a pain, but very doable.

If you ever decide to try to go with 22.5 inch 6 lug stud centric rims; I have one, but just one.

It looks really good from 25 ft but looks like it spent quite a bit of time on salty Michigan roads judging by the frame and under the cab. There is some bondo in the body/doors for sure (looks like wasn't well done and starting to crack/pop), but the original floors look to be already patched in spots and cab corners and body mounts look solid enough to not need replaced. The previous owner was a "thick bondo and lots of paint" farm tractor restoration style guy. There are a lot of those around here! First use will be as a dump truck around the property. I plan on digging a pond next summer and cleaning up the property (previous owner left several junk/brush piles about) a bit then maybe next winter or the following convert this over to something more road worthy. Going to repaint a different color at some point (currently rustoleum safety blue) and run the sheet metal it as-is. It won't be perfect or a full resto but just really want a "shop truck" for the months there isn't ice/salt all over the roads up here and wife wants to drive it in local parades.

Called the local tire shop, they can't get any 8.25-20 or 900-20 tires at this time. She said at least $100 each tire to put new tubes in if they are split rims. Shouldn't need too great of tires for using in on my property as a dump truck but that is a bummer since I wanted to drive it to town on occasion. I will keep an eye on the local classifieds also in case some decent tires or wheels pop up. I may end up just getting newer axles to throw under it during the rebuild to address the gearing, brakes and wheels issue all at once or just buy a "newer" complete running truck and do a body swap.

Hey mdkelly, if the time comes that you are changing running gear for something newer, I would be interested in the rear axle. Also I found a tire shop down here in the Ann Arbor area that sells and mounts used truck tires. If you need the number let me know. They do have a branch in Flint/Burton but I don't know how each branch is managed so they may not help you.

Nice rig!

78Buckshot, I would love to know the name of that tire shop. I lived in the AA area from 2007 until I bought this place last August. My wife is from that area so we go down there quite often still to visit her family. I will most likely just get a couple serviceable front tires for now and run it as is once the brakes are working.

I found 4 of the old Alcoa aluminum 22.5 6 lug wheels that would fit and make finding tires easier but the asking price is $1500 and that seems pretty high for only 4 wheels, no tires. I would have to spend another $600 for two more steel wheels (whenever they are back in stock) and then $1800 -$2400 for tires to go on those wheels so not sure if that is the best way to go or not. Just new wheels/tires would cost more than getting a running 90's or early 2000's donor truck!

Since I am so new to this maybe someone can answer what could be a silly question. Are the old tube type tires always hard to find and out of stock or is this just another casualty of the pandemic? I am thinking maybe the current difficulty getting tires could be due to the supply chain issues and at some point in the future the tires will be easier to get. If that is the case, I will just stick with these wheels.

I bought 4 Michelin 22.5" XRV that are almost new-$75 each on Craigslist. I then found Schrader Tire and oil, bought 4 used Firestone steers 10R-22.5 and had them mount all 7 on my freshly blasted and painted steel wheels. Total cost with lots of PPG paint and primer left for other projects was about $1300.00. Schrader has branch listed in Flint/Burton. The branch in Ann Arbor/Ypsi is on Morgan Rd. at Carpenter, ph. (734) 434-9300

Hey mdkelly, I just saw (6) Michelin 235/80/22.5 XRV on Craigslist Toledo, those are the same size I'm running as steers on mine, they want $800 for the set of six. They are shorter than I wanted for my drives 'cuz I have a 7.20:1 rear end so that's why I'm running the 10R-22.5's on the rear.

My truck has the 20" split rim wheels so those tires won't fit. The 8.25x20 tires seem to be pretty hard to locate right now as are the 6x8.75 bolt pattern 22.5" wheels. I think the tires I have will have to work for now, hoping the lack of 8.25x20 tires is just a side effect of the supply chain issues going on.

Started it up again tonight. There is no vacuum, which is likely why the brakes were not working. Seems to run really well. A bit of a bog off idle probably timing but I am not seeing a regular timing indicator marks on the crank pulley (not sure there is even a balancer on this engine?). The air cleaner hooks into the brake booster vacuum line (it look like a 3/4 or 1" hose running to it!). Not sure how exactly to seal up the air cleaner to get vacuum to build. I think the vacuum canister is next to the carb but not sure really, and it doesn't appear to be connected to the "manifold" the brake booster unit is connected to. I think If I can get the vacuum issue sorted the brakes may actually work!

Dump seems to work pretty well. There are 3 cylinders, one that does most of the work to get the box up the first couple feet, then two others that lift it faster take over.

If you have no vacuum the engine probably wouldn't run and idle, the engine is creating vacuum, but it might not be reaching the Hdyrovac booster. Even without the booster working, the system was designed to deliver manual brakes with more peddle pressure needed. If the peddle goes to the floor then you have an issue regardless of the booster. I would pull all of the drums first before you even put brake fluid in the master cylinder. If you have leaking wheel cylinders you might have a chance of saving the shoes if you don't pump more fluid into the drums. As far as tires, you could call Shrader and see if they have any 20".

Power King 7.50x20 highway tread are still available. About 10 years ago I was able to buy Denman Traction tires in that size but not anymore. I think the last traction tires I could find were 8.25x20. Tires, flaps and tubes are the easy part. Mounting them is another issue.

The tube connected to the air filter housing is atmosphere intake to the booster, you won't feel or notice anything there. Vacuum supply to the booster is on the intake manifold below the carb.

You'll have better luck getting a rebuild kit for the booster than buying one.

First, like noted above, get the hydraulic/manual side of the brakes in good working order. Then work on getting the booster working.

The 6-lug 22.5" Budd wheels for the your truck were typically found in the 6", 6.75" and 7.5" widths for tires sizes ranging from 8.25 to 11.00 x 22.5". It seems like the 22.5's are easier to find than the smaller sized 20's. The 6-lug Budds were used on many trucks for decades and should be easy to find. You need to ask around at your local school bus garages and big truck repair shops...if you wait to find them on the internet you may be waiting a long time.

Make sure to replace ALL of the steel and rubber brake lines while your doing the brakes...these line may look good but will fail from the inside out.

Your Hydrovac should have a tag on it with it's model number...NAPA should be able to source a remanufactured unit or send your unit back for a rebuild.

Mike B

Thanks guys, all good info and advice. I will start calling around local truck tire dealers and truck garages. There is a truck salvage yard in Saginaw, a little over an hour away. Lots of local schools that run buses and I would guess they still have on site bus garages but no idea really. I can call to see though.

I found a rebuild guide online for the brake booster unit and did see the vacuum comes from the base of the carb. Booster looks pretty straightforward to rebuild if I can get a rebuild kit.

I am busy this weekend but should be able to start tearing into the brakes next week, if the weather isn't too cold. I have a nice shop to work in the but section with overhead doors is not insulated or heated so I may have to get a big torpedo heater or wait for the temps to get at least into the double digits. Supposed to be -2 tonight I heard! Eventually I hope to section off and insulate and heat a portion but not there yet.

I will check the line size and buy some bulk steel tubing to bend up and flare some new lines.

Will NAPA have rebuild kits for the hydrovac and the wheel cylinders, or just rebuild services?

The 22.5" rims were "standard" issue tires...the 20" split rims were optional.

Your truck has the Firestone RH-5 "widow maker" rims...you probably won't find any tire shop willing to work on your rims as they were outlawed decades ago and the liability would be way to high.

Mike B

I talked to our local Napa store about a rebuild kit for a Hydrovac and they told me to take it off, bring it in and they would ship it off to be rebuilt.
It would be about a three week turn around. I don’t know if all the stores do that, but I will be watching this thread for advice.

Don

My close small Napa only gave me info on sending it to Cardone, I think I'll send mine to White Post Restorations based on what I have read about both. Matt, all of the hard lines on mine are 1/4", I Used all of a 25 ft. roll to do it, Summit has copper/nickel at a good price. After you get the casting numbers from the wheel cylinders you can match a kit to each, don't order them till you have the numbers as I found different cylinders on the opposite side of the truck and had to get different kits.

Good point on the part numbers, never thought about there being ones in different locations.

I just read up on the RH5 wheels. Wow, I am kind of scared now to even take these off and really thankful they didn't come apart on me when I aired up the fronts the other day. I will wrap some chain around those and air them down and get them off, maybe turn them into tool stands or something.

Guess I am going to have more $$ into this truck than I was hoping but I am certain I will forget the cost when I am driving it around safely. Thanks for the heads up on those.

So, are the front wheel split in a way that the half bolted to the hub is solid and the back half is what would blow off (meaning if the rims are left bolted to the truck the piece that blows off would blow toward the frame/axle and not outward and the biggest risk is working on these off the truck)? Just want to understand my risk of airing these down while on the truck. I can chain them up regardless, but want to know what I am getting into. I am still reading about these trying to figure out how to approach safely getting these off.

EDIT: Just found a video about them, my assumption was correct. The fronts would blow off toward the inside of the truck. Makes me feel slightly better... Means the rear outer is oriented in a way to cause problems though.

One can get clip on air hose nozzles that can be unconnected to deflate suspect wheels by clipping one on and walk off ‘til all the air is out.

Ed

You can get wheel cylinders and master cylinder pretty easily. The booster you're going to have to put in the mail or buy a rebuild kit off the internet.

There is a bunch of factory documentation for changing tires on factory wheels. Logging chain wrapped around it is a good safety precaution. Initial inflation is the more dangerous part. There is only certain advice regarding those wheels allowed here - but I was able to confidently put new tires on my truck.

Struck out multiple times today. Called two Schrader locations, Saginaw Truck parts (a medium/heavy truck salvage yard), a couple local yards, tire shops... no one had any 6 lug 22.5 wheels or even any suggestions of where I could call. No one even knew any yards that deal in medium duty buses, box trucks, etc, either. I haven't called the bus garages yet but most buses that are in operation around here are the newer 10 lug stuff from what I see on the roads. There aren't any older buses in operation around here and most garages don't have room to store any obsolete parts that they can't use, they usually scrap that stuff for beer money. I know people have found these wheels but what I am reading online all seems to be 10-15 year old posts about how plentiful these are (or were). My guess is when scrap steel was way up 10-12 years ago a lot of these got turned into cash.

I will keep looking but sounds like I am going to be kind of forced into learning how to deal with these widowmakers for now and keep my eyes and ears open for some wheels or swap out the I beam and rear end for some more modern 10 lug stuff.

Read the factory documentation for your wheels. Rust at the mating/locking surfaces is a problem that significantly increases the danger. You won't know how badly they are deteriorated until you break them down. If they are badly corroded, they wont lock back together the way they were designed. You can PM me for other questions.

are the military style split ring 20" wheels any better? I am finding those for pretty reasonable prices (shipping will probably hurt but oh well)

If the military rims are a multi piece lock ring type they are still serviceable...there are millions of them still on the road. The RH-5's are the only one's that I know of that are no longer legal, they have the 2" wide raised band running around the center of the rim...if they have a lock ring out at the tire bead they are NOT RH-5's and are OK to use.

Remember ALL multi piece rims need to be inflated in a safety cage...be safe! If you aren't comfortable mounting this type of tire get professional help...

Mike B

asilverblaser you said you could get master cylinders easy I have a 58 Viking 60 in need of a rebuild or new MC as well as frt wheel bearings where do you recomend

I haven't started looking for master or wheel cylinders yet, or bearings for that matter. Probably be best to start a new post asking that, or maybe a search of all posts.

would like to know what ever you find out. Iam currently looking for the same for my 58 viking 60

Hy hippydave, the Napa part number for a re-manufactured master cylinder for your 58 Viking 60 is NMC P21698 $46.49, their part number for a new master cylinder is NMC M21698 $154.49, there was no mention of core costs. It is not the best idea to tag onto someone elses post and ask questions, please start your own posts, there is a better chance your questions will be noticed and answered, hope that helps.

thank you for the pt numbers and yea I would start my own thread
but havent figured out how yet Im a nubie and not all that computer savy yet

you can buy hydrovacs new from: https://www.fleet-products.ca/

https://www.fleet-products.ca/categories/Hydrovacs/

I had a thread somewhere showing the product I installed on my 55 Chev 2 Ton. Got it from them. It had fresh black paint on it and complete new construction. Worth a look

OP has the truck up for sale, he may not be following this thread.

Yes, that is the ad for my truck.

I am buying a new 1.5" socket today (Friday) so I can get the wheels off to look at the brakes. I didn't even have tools large enough to work on this thing! I have a lot of projects already piled up and just realistically don't need more. If it doesn't sell for what I have into it so far I will get any other tools I need and start fixing on this so I can use it. Wife lost her job about 2 weeks or so after I bought the truck so that changed things as well, I have other projects that are higher priority so figured I would sell this to free up some cash for finishing those.

Update on the truck:

I borrowed a 3/4" drive socket set from my uncle after I broke my 1/2" breaker bar on a lugnut. I then found a kentool tire tool under the seat (when I removed the seat to remove the gas tank) and have been using that, it works great!

Got all the brakes working, fixed the gas tank and installed an electric fuel pump (mechanical one needed a check valve and parts store didn't have any in stock) several months ago. Listed the truck for sale again once it was drivable but no takers. So, since the wife is working again and no one made any decent offers I figured I will fix it up enough to use it locally and drive it for a while, fixing little things as I go.

Tonight I got all the lights working, driving/parking, brakes, front/rear blinkers. Headlights worked already but I still need to get the high/low switch working. Have been using the truck around my property to move sand and haul firewood. I need to tune the carburetor a bit (been having to leave the choke partway on so it doesn't stall out) and maybe adjust the timing and it will be road worthy. Probably put insurance and plates on it before too long. I still will need to find some 22.5 wheels for this at some point. I aired up all the tires last weekend to 60psi but would really like to replace the widowmaker wheels and get new tires sometime soon. Local parts store ordered a paper air filter that I read is supposed to fit in the air cleaner. The oil bath unit doesn't look to be in too bad of shape, but I don't want to deal with washing it out in gas and soaking in oil regularly.

Glad to see you working on it again. I know it can be discouraging when not able to use it. I choose projects on mine that I can do in small increments so that it's not disabled for very long. If I can drive it once in a while it helps keep enthusiasm high and some fun in the total project. I recently rebuilt the steering system, new king pins, tie rod ends, drag link, adjusted the steering gear. Now it runs straight down the road with good handling. I also wired my lighted, heated west coast mirrors. It gets a lot of thumbs-up on the road and at the small local car shows. As a kid my family had a cottage on the Tittabawassee, on Wixom Lake, are you anywhere near there?

Yes, maybe 20 minutes northwest. We had a cabin on Wixom as well when I was growing up. Hopefully the lake will come back soon!

Unless you drive in very dusty conditions, a good cleaning of the oil bath filter will last a looong time. Years. Just clean the sump as it cruds up a half inch or so with sediment and dead wasps and leaves. They actually work better than paper filters. The big rigs still use them. Have one on two trucks and four tractors. Never dusted an engine in 50 years. Just keep the oil level up. Overfill and the carb will suck in the excess.

I agree with the time between cleaning the oil bath filter, with the little use on my truck and almost entirely on blacktop roads, it does not need cleaning very often. Mine does a great job of keeping the combustion air clean. I don't know if my original engine has ever been rebuilt, I didn't pull the heads when I had the engine out of the truck, but it doesn't smoke at all.