Need your keen eye and assistance in the odd ball department.
Looking for a pair of tie rod ends for a Canadian Military Pattern 4x4 1940 Chevrolet..... same part for a 3/4 to 3 ton truck front axle.... I know it was a British design manufactured in Oshawa Canada and grossly overbuilt.
I have never seen replacement parts,,,,ever. During the design stage in late 1937-38-39 a lot of off the shelf items where used for expediency..... my Chev had Ford brakes, door handles, headlights, etc
Surfing EBay I found similar, look alike but never the right size..... I finally bought one and it looks like a midget......... I am sure they must have used some available Heavy Duty parts from the GM, Chevrolet, Maple Leaf HD trucks, GMC, CCKW..... or all the other sub sub suppliers......
Give it a good look it may have been used post war in "OTHER" large limited production vehicles.....
Just to give you an example of "off the shelf" engineering....... the 4 trush bearings for the 4x4 steering of the CMP was the New Departure bearing and was the same as the mid 30s Cadillac LaSalle and the price when found depended if you ask for Cadillac or truck.
Now let's see if I am lucky at posting a couple of pictures
You might have more success if you measured the taper angle and the thread pitch. Then people coule look for a functional replacement even if it didn't look the same.
Honestly, as long as you got the taper correct, you could sub in a different rod AND ends to more available stuff.
And even if the taper was different, the steering arms can be reworked for a different one. I know some of the serious 4x4 guys like to convert their rod ends to the 1 ton GM style. Either by reaming or drilling straight and then inserting a sleeve with the correct taper.
This is just kind of a shot in the dark, but being a former Army mechanic and logistics type, the picture you included looks very similar to more recent 5ton truck (M8XX and M9XX series) tie rod ends I used to deal with.
I have no actual dimension data, but did find a Surplus parts supplier ad with very good pictures of what those 5ton parts look like at this link:
The entire Tie rod assembly (includes rod and both tie rod ends) shows two different National Stock Numbers (NSN) that seem to apply.
Some further web diving provided added Army NSN info on just the tie rod ends themselves that may be of a little help. Each of these can be web searched to provide basic original manufacturer names and their own part numbers. There are actually some listed on eBay this evening, but their descriptions lack significant details.
Tie rod end, Left Hand for M9XX or M8XX series 5ton truck: NSN 2530-00-303-4923
Tie rod end, Right Hand for M9XX or M8XX series 5ton truck: NSN 2530-00-211-6111
Sorry to say at this point that none of this info provides actual specification dimensions of these tie rod ends, so no idea if they may work for your need or not.
IIRC, the 2-1/2ton Army 6X6 trucks (M211 and M35 series) had the same style of tie rods ends as these 5ton units. But they may have been a bit smaller than the 5ton items.
On a final note that may be of help, check out this link from MOOG that describes how to measure your existing tie rod end to try and find a replacement. It may help when you provide measurements to Mike B for him to search his library.
~ Dan 1951 Chevy 3 window 3100 Follow this story in the DITY Gallery "My Grandpa Carl's Truck and How it Became Mine" 1966 Chevelle (Wife's Hot Rod) | 2013 Chevy Silverado (Current daily driver) US Army MSG Retired (1977-1998) | Com Fac Maint Lead Tech Retired (1998-2021)
Yes I would like to find the parts that would fit or be made to fit to maintian some degree of historical accuracy but to the extent of sacrificing safety on the steering end.
Typical military design the rod itself is a massive curved bar that clears the front drive components but as hefty as the 5 ton truck pictured.
I will be taking complete bar just for the hell of it and sketch the measurements of the taper. Similar to what is pictures on Eastern Surplus supplier these tie rod ends come apart for rebuilding..... so will strip one, photo and take measurements and sketch the darn thing.
Hang in there, it cold out here and 30 inches of white heavy wet s**t is due overnight.... so snow blowing will come first!!!
1939 Packard Standard Eight Coupe (The Phantom) | 1956 Cadillac Coupe de Ville (The Bismarck) | 1964 Ford Galaxie 500 coupe |1966 Ford Mustang (Little Red) | 1969 Pontiac GTO (The Dishpit) I 1979 Ford F-100 | 1976 Ford F-150 (Big Red) | 1995 Ford F-150 (Newt)
I do belong to the CMP or MapleLeafUp Forum and whatever I find will be shared with MLU and Stovebolt..... both of which have world wide members.
First I got an immediate response that parts are in storage and it would take too much time to dig them up..... I understand they are not a reference library.... so inquired about their "return policy" if it does not fit....... as I do have a supply of paperweights from previous attempts...... awaiting reply.
A contact at a Canadian Defence museum is looking into the parts numbers supplied for the 5 ton truck..... is first response from memory, is that the Canadian 5 ton had HUGE tie rod ends but he will visually compare the 1940 CMP model to the 5 ton and get back to me.... also exploring details/specs for the part numbers supplied by Gdads51.
Need to work on photos and measurements before I contact Moog.......
Tomorrow is still snow blowing and the snow is fluffy and not wet which makes the job easier.
As to official part numbers according to GM/National defense parts manuals dated May 1945, the most recent volume ( verified against previous parts manuals dating back to 1940..... Spare parts list...part number used by DND..... C01Q3289 and 3290 ( RH and LH) GM numbers 1798784 and 179 8783.......Note.... these numbers have an asterick ( * ) which indicates that they are peculiar to Canadian trucks.
Having a special part made is unfortunately more than the value of the complete vehicle..... even with the limited demand world wide from the majority of backyard collectors/restorers. These trucks were used extensively in Canada and shipped to the UK, Europe, Australia, New Zealand...... but they are all over 80 years old and few have survived their army service and abuse in civilian surplus market.
Thanks for all the leads which I will follow up.
Bob C
PS.......Search of Master Parts Manual from GM....covering 1929 to 1951....item 6.233..... no 179xxxx series not used at all ..... even on Canadian HD MapleLeaf trucks which were the Canadian version of the GMC HD..... now leafing into Hollanders interchange listing..
I don't think that they deal in CMP parts, however they are a third-generation surplus military vehicle parts source, and have been selling parts in NL for 50 years. They have always been extremely helpful to me. You could try shooting them an email and ask them if they know of any CMP parts sources.
After further back checking of Army 2-1/2t vehicle repair parts info (TM 9-2320-209-20P), I found that tie rod ends for same are not of the same "female" main rod attachment style. They are actually "male" threaded attachment ends which won't work in your application.
One other option you might look into since the originals are the "re-buildable" style, take them to a commercial truck shop that handles big rigs and see if they would compare what you have with more current tie rod ends to see if you can find a suitable replacement or maybe a rebuild kit that would fit???
Know it's probably a shot in the dark, but willing to try however we can to help out.
Good luck!
~ Dan 1951 Chevy 3 window 3100 Follow this story in the DITY Gallery "My Grandpa Carl's Truck and How it Became Mine" 1966 Chevelle (Wife's Hot Rod) | 2013 Chevy Silverado (Current daily driver) US Army MSG Retired (1977-1998) | Com Fac Maint Lead Tech Retired (1998-2021)
Still working on this puzzle......and appreciate all the leads and suggestions.....
UPDATE
I have LWD Parts in Holland, which supplies CMP parts and has a fedw sets on hand to check for possible partnumber or any other casting numbers......
I have also cleaned up about 7 or 8 used tie rod ends and found one with some original raised cast numbers....... 24V25 F and 24V26 F
All the others were probably sandblasted during their life underneath a truck.....
Another manufacturer called Foden..... "F" as in Ford may have been an early supplier....following up on that since Ford and GM collaberated in the desing of the CMP back in 1937-38
There are probably at least two different models which can be taken apart and rebuilt.....
Not done yet....working on measurements of the inside taper........ two of us have measured but our numbers differ slightly..... so back to the measurements tomorrow...
Not as many as there was once was........lots of the older collectors/restorers/ users are being called upstairs.
I am hanging on for dear life..... the big Forum sites is the Maple Leaf Up........I hesitate to say Canadian located since most of the hard working administrators and site monitors are located at home around the world......MLU is somewhat pretty well army vehicles particularly the Canadian Military Pattern trucks.....lots of members worldwide.....Canadian Jeeps, Dodge, some Canadian armour, artillary. in Australia, New Zealand,Europe, UK, even behind what was once the iron curtain. There is no more personal satisfaction then knowing that you have help some one around the world and whom you probably never met.
Once you have been bittenby the CMP Tick you are condemned to sniffing OD Green paint..... it makes you lie to your wife about the last two rusted wreck you got home and if you have friends storing truck at your place........ then wow you are free to have a many as you can as they are not yours.....ask Peter!!!!
I am lucky to have a small hobby farm with tall tree lines that hides all my sins and my friends sins..... it is officially called our inventory of parts.
People weren't fat slobs in the 1930s and '40s and they were slightly shorter. The average army recruit in 1943 was about 5' 7" and weighed 151 lbs.
Even in 1955 men in their 20s weighed between 156 and 172 lbs and ranged in height from 5'5'' to 6'1". So even a "big" man in 1955 only weighed 172lbs.
Last edited by Otto Skorzeny; 01/19/20231:45 PM.
1950 Chevrolet 3100 (Ol' Roy)
1939 Packard Standard Eight Coupe (The Phantom) | 1956 Cadillac Coupe de Ville (The Bismarck) | 1964 Ford Galaxie 500 coupe |1966 Ford Mustang (Little Red) | 1969 Pontiac GTO (The Dishpit) I 1979 Ford F-100 | 1976 Ford F-150 (Big Red) | 1995 Ford F-150 (Newt)
You are both correct........ the trucks / cabs were a British design.....comfort of the personnel was not an issue.... when the british came back after the original order and wanted the by the tens of thosuands G and Ford proposed a new cab which was easier to assemble ingreat number and easier to drive and maintain..
The early on like mine...cab 11 is very tight....intendedfor guys raised during the depression.......5'5" and 150 was a good size...... I am 6;' 2" and I can fit but there is a protocol on how yiou climbin and bailk out....... in addition the pedals are slightly off set to the right.....clutch onthe left ags in the middel and brake onthe right..... I cannot possibly drive the truck withmy saffetyboots as the width ofthe foot well is far to narrow......very tiring to drive for hours with your your rigth ankle ccocked sideways to press the gas button......
And they are noisy with straight cut gears minimal padding on the seats and hot as the engine is a semi C.O.E......... did I mention HOT..... they made some changes with cab 12 but the foot well was the For same it was not until 1942 and the cab 13 that they finally had a truck that was acceptable ..........
For servicing the engine my "bonnet" hood for us is a flat panel about 14 by 18 inches......and the engine cover inside the cab has to come off with about 5 stovebolt screws...4 panels ...takes about an hour.... in service in North africa it was not unusual to loose doors and service panels and it made the vehicle lighter in the sand anyways....
At car shows I let kids sit in..... and if I get a good crowd I embarrass one of the fathers heavy tall father to get in and close the door......and watch the people laugh as he tries to squeeze himself in...... The trick is to back your butt in....drag your left leg in then grab your jeans leg and pull on your right pant leg over the front fender and into the foot well.....
.....but like all old truck they are tons of fun.....
Now have a sketch....crude but it captures the important measurements ...will attach at the end of this email. This will maker comparaisons easier with possible NATO parts....
To Crowbar.....checked the wildenberg part site...... very interesting....some of the parts/tools he is listing I have never seen this side of the pond....but no tie rod ends.
Moog as nothing that even comes close ...... BUT Gdad51 was listing an other sites for " make your own" kits........ which is very interesting....seems to be focused on using a male T rod that connects to a straight tube ...... mine is a solid bar rod about 1 1/2 in dia. double curved to fit around the drive shaft of the front axle and is threaded into the female part of the tie rod..... certainly worthy of further searching/discussion with them.
The LWD CMP Part dealer in Holland as some NOS TR in stock and he will nvestigate to see if he can locate a makers mark of part number..... but htey need to was the grease and /or cosmoline first Oddly enough he also has the central stud of the same tie rod..... also greased up greased up wrapped and packed in a box marked FORD part number....
