The Stovebolt.com Forums Home | Tech Tips | Gallery | FAQ | Events | Features | Search
Help is a click away!

VEHICLE
INFORMATION
KITS


at the

GM Heritage Center
All the details are here.

Searching the Site - a click away
click here to search
New here ??? Where to start?
Click on image for the lowdown. Where do I go around here?
====
Who's Online Now
2 members (Gray_Ghost, 1 invisible), 179 guests, and 2 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums66
Topics128,109
Posts1,056,269
Members48,439
Most Online14,466
Apr 26th, 2026
Step-by-step instructions for pictures in the forums
Brad Allen's photos

AD Chevy Trucks

Pictures galore
Over 6,000 pictures

Brad Allen has an awesome collection of Chevrolet factory pictures that he has set up from film strips.

Check them out!

Lots of work on Brad's part ... pure enjoyment (and references) for you!

Big Thanks!

THANKS!

For helping keep this great
old truck web site
on the Internet for

over 30 years!

and not clogged down
with Ads!


Again, thanks!

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#14654 08/09/2002 4:19 AM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
New pistons and reconditioned rods are ready for assembly. The new pins are undersize 4340 steel and the rod ends are bushed and center hole distances matched to within .0005".

Work was done at Speed-o-motive per recommendation from Chevyman. They magnafluxed, straightened, shot peened and installed ARP bolts. This old 6 will rev with confidence now smile

[img]http://www.kinemation.com/Trucks/Images/piston&rod01.jpg[/img]

close up of bushed rod end.

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,897
M
Member
Member
M Offline
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,897
Do those pistons have snap-rings to keep the pins centered?
It looks like they are machined for it in the wrist-pin boss.


There is enough good in the worst of us and enough bad in the best of us that it does not behoove any of us to criticize the rest of us.
-
-
Be yourself. If you are ever lost, It will be much easier to find yourself if you know who you are!
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Mechaniac,

The pins are retained with double spiral lock rings. The machined notch is in there to aid in getting the dang things out once they are put in. Without the notch, they are nearly impossible to get out without destroying something.

Ken

#14657 08/09/2002 10:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 95
C
Wrench Fetcher
Wrench Fetcher
C Offline
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 95
Ken: Looking Good! Those should do the trick. Are you still planning on future blower install on your 292? If so you might want to possibly consider having a thermal ceramic coating applied to piston tops. Hyper pistons tend to "reflect" heat and will give you hot spots. You may experience detonation problems. Detonation will more likely be experienced at the lower RPM's as the valve overlap and retarded ignition will yield there greatest net "effect" on the combustion chamber and flame front. As RPM's rise and exhaust pressures will stablize and more evenly balance the intake. The blower causes a "gulping or pumping" effect against the (lower atmospheric) exhaust side of the combustion chamber at lower speeds. Anyway you get the picture. You may want to also consider smoothing out the chambers to remove all sharp and rough edges, as they will also aggrivate detonation problems. You can also have the chambers ceramic coated. Update, and let us know your future build plans?

Think Chevy! smile cool wink


Houston? , We have a problem!
#14658 08/10/2002 12:41 AM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Chevyman,

I hadn't thought of ceramic coating. I am hoping that because I am using a Whipple style positive displacement compressor that the gulping effect will be minimal. Also, I will be running a miller cycle cam and while the absolute compression ratio is 9.5:1 with the way it is set up now, with the delayed closing of the intake valve, I am shooting for a realized mechanical compression ratio of 7.5:1 and will be running around 12 psi of boost with pump gas.

Who do you recommend for doing the ceramic coating? also, I haven't bought rings yet. Ring spacing and size were arrived at jointly between Spdomtv and Ross. But I had a brain fart and forgot to get the rings ordered. Also any thoughts on ring gap for this setup would be greatly appreciated.

Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,773
F
'Bolter
'Bolter
F Offline
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,773
Ken, those pistons are to pretty to go in an engine. For safekeeping I will be glad to hold them in storage for a few years. grin I know how rusty things get from all the saltwater up there. wink


Fred
52 3600
69 C-10
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,096
D
'Bolter
'Bolter
D Offline
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,096
That's a great picture Ken , what sort of digital camera are you using ??
Have you thought to use a pressure retard device like is on the Corvair Spyder to help prevent detonation ??

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Hi Fred - the pistons are a lot prettier than what I took out of the motor. But those are the stock rods from a mid-60's 292 with a lot of miles. I better get them INTO the engine before they rust smile

Dusty, I am working on the timing / fuel injection engine management software now. I will have a manifold absolute pressure sensor that will work with the engine speed sensor to figure out spark advance - the software tweakable version of what chevy had on the spyder. I will be able to do the equivalent of changing advance curves / vacuum or pressure advance and retard on the fly. . . I will also put in safety limits in case I fat finger something on the keyboard so that I don't turn the whole works into a pile of scrap iron and aluminum. This motor is going to be a mix of something old . . . something new. A fun blend of two of my hobbies. . .

I bought a Kodak DC280 camera for work about 2 years ago for $500. It is a really good camera. A couple of weeks ago, I checked on ebay and picked another one up for $200 with all the accessories and bag for home use. I upgraded with Windows 2000 and can read the memory cards now directly in a PCMCIA slot on my laptop so getting the pictures off the camera memory card is a snap. smile

#14662 08/11/2002 12:21 AM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 95
C
Wrench Fetcher
Wrench Fetcher
C Offline
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 95
Ken: Never seen any information on a Miller cam but it must be a speciality design with later intake closing. This can be achieved in several ways-

1. special grind with wider LDA

2. dual pattern w/more intake lobe duration

3. special ground w/retarded intake

4. special grind w/stretched out long slower closing ramp

Most street blower set-up's use stock cam that is simply retarded. The standard thinking here is to use offset bushings. Moving the cam drive pin by about .005 offset will move cam about 1 degree, more or less.

Your 292, any what you are trying to achieve as a finished engine are a (how can I put this in a nice way) a peculiarity! I don't mean this in a bad way. It's just that your build up would be much more simple with lower compression (static) to begin with. Running with 9.5 in NA trim would be fine. But when you install the blower with 12 psi boost, you have to retard ignition and intake closing so radically to achieve enough lower dynamic compression to make it run. Jumping from (9.5 static to 7.5 dynamic) with such late closing will shift your powerband very high in the rpm's. Also with this late closing you move the maximum torque up higher in the revs, right where you don't need it, at least on street anyway.

What the late closing effect will be is an engine with (blown) lots of power up high 3500/4500 rpm range, but no bottom end and poor mid range power. It will stuff you in the seat with wide open throttle to be sure, but may be very hard to idle and start. You will also have to consider (I think you are going to stuff this mill in the Burb aren't you?) vehicle weight and rear gearing. An engine like this would work best wide open, and with a stick shift, like a dragster. An auto would shift too early, and you won't have the necessary torque to recover.

If this was a drag car it would be simple. But it's not. You could just change cams when you install the blower. Because of the different requirements needed by adding the blower later, this complicates matters. If you want your engine to perform well NA, then build accordingly. The 9.5 comp seems ideal. But when you add the blower your base comp is way too high, and I feel that you will simply be moving your detonation problem just higher in the rpm's. You can't have it both
ways. This is not a drag engine that you will be tearing back down after 20 runs. It has to last and run cool enough, and responsive enough and be managable enough to be a everyday driver. With such late closing there is less time to fill the cylinder, and in "theory" less time for spontaneous combustion (detonation) to occur, but it may still and possibly with serious damaging effects at 4000 rpm!

Not trying to discourage you, but I think you should discuss all your build plans with maybe Speedo, someone knowledgable with street blower set-up's for advise on this so you will enjoy the end result and be happy with it. Also check with them on ceramic coating as I think they can have this done for you. They should advise you on rings also.

Think Chevy! eek smile cool wink


Houston? , We have a problem!
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Chevyman,

You are not the first to question the approach I am planning. But nothing ventured, nothing gained. I have done a lot of reading on Miller cycle cams and talked with a couple of guys who have experience with this approach - when I called Iskendarian cams, they knew just what I was talking about and reported that they had done Miller cycle cam grinds for a number of different engines.

The reading I have done has been specifically about the Mazda Millenia and work done by Jaguar, Toyota and Nissan in recent years. The argument is that when the compression of the air/fuel mixture is equally shared between an efficient supercharger (aka Whipple design) and the subsequent compression of the charge by the piston, that maximum efficiency and performance can be had.

Low speed idle is reported to be smooth and bottom end torque is actually up to 30% higher than a NA motor. This is all documented by a variety of sources - in print (Corky Bell's book "Supercharging") and on the web in numerous automotive engineering "white papers".

I know it is not conventional - and that is why I went with the 9.5:1 compression ratio in the first place. It is ideal for NA application if my Miller experiment doesn't work, and optimum for the Miller approach as well.

The pressure balance point during the intake cycle where the intake charge stops entering the cylinder is actually between 25 and 35 degrees past BDC. If you run a standard grind, you are slamming the intake valve shut well before the cylinder has reached the same pressure as that of the supercharger induced pressure in the intake plenum. By delaying the closing of the intake valve, the cylinder pressure reaches equilibrium with the plenum pressure without any heating due to mechanical compression. Then, as the piston compresses the charge for the remaining 65 - 70 degrees of crank rotation, you have much less heating than if you had a full 85 or 90 degrees of compression stroke.

Does this make sense to you now or do you think I should save my money and put a 390 cfm four bbl on it? smile

Here is one link on the miller cycle engine.

Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 125
G
'Bolter
'Bolter
G Offline
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 125
Ken, I find your plans very interesting. I've been helping-looking over the shoulder of Leo Santuci who built a 292 turbo alcohol injected modified 53 coupe. Early results are encouraging, with boost set low, still dialing it in, ran 10.11 @ 130MPH. If you don't already have a copy of his book you might find it interesting. He runs a near stock cam and 3.73 gears. He is trying to persuade me to huff my 261. Just wonder about the rest of my drivetrain (T-5???) Please keep us posted on your project.


Grant
1950 Chevy 3100
1952 GMC 150 (In Pieces)
1968 Chevy K20
1966 Shovelhead
1978 BMW 100S

Moderated by  Phak1, Woogeroo 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Home | FAQ | Gallery | Tech Tips | Events | Features | Search | Hoo-Ya Shop
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.0