Hi all, Spring is here and it's time to get back to work on the '37. I was trying to remove this copper tube on the lower right side of the engine. I have both the 3/8 nut and the 1/2 inch nut completely loose but the tube and nuts won't pull away from the block. It seems like there is something going through into the engine and keeping it from pulling away. What does this tube do and what's holding it into the block? I hope I haven't wrecked anything trying to get it apart. Thanks John
That is the oil distributor tube. it passes through the water jacket and exits the block on the passenger's side under the pushrod cover. It cannot be removed without damaging or destroying the tube since it's either crimped or soldered into place. The tube supplies lubrication oil to the rocker arms under the valve cover. If you want to remove it for some reason, cut the tube off near the block on both ends and thread a piece of stiff wire through it to assist in the installation of a new tube. Most of the resto-ripoff places sell a kit to replace the tube, with all the fittings needed to do the job properly. Use ONLY copper tubing. Steel brake line material will rust out and you'll end up with a coolant/oil intermix. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Thanks I'll try to tighten everything back up. I suppose I should pull the valve cover when I start it back up to make sure it's still pumping oil up to the rocker arms.
If you turned the inner fitting enough to unthread it from the block, the tube now looks like a corkscrew, since it's probably firmly attached to that fitting. Threading the inner fitting back in is unlikely to help. You will probably need to go ahead and replace the tube. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Well it seems I've done more harm than good so now I get to learn how to replace the oil tube. The inner fitting doesn't want to thread back on so you are probably right about it being twisted. Your comment about the resto-ripoff places makes me wonder where you would advise getting a replacement. Thanks for you help John
Resto-ripoff is just Jerry's term for the various vendors that specialize in old truck stuff. Some tend to overcharge a bit, but many times are the only source of what's needed.
Here is one kit to replace the oil distribution line. But you can put your own together with fittings from a well stocked hardware store. The critical items are the captive ferrule fittings (third from the left and second from the right in the center of the figure in the link.) You can use your old ones to match them up with just a bit of copper tubing, also available from a hardware store.
Last edited by klhansen; 05/11/20226:12 AM.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
Thanks I'll order the parts. I was wondering about resto-ripoff. I've purchased from the Filling Station and also Jim Carter in the past and been very satisfied.
You might want a valve cover gasket as well, depending on whether yours is still in good shape.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
Soft copper, which is what is needed is Type K. Thicker than type L, which is hard copper and probably not available in that small a size.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
Thanks for the diagram. That should be helpful. I ordered the kit. How much of the engine has to come apart to get this installed?
That diagram shows the tubing soldered (sweat joint) where the tubing comes thru into the pushrod cover, but the kit uses a captive ferrule compression fitting on both ends. Either way would work. You just have to remove the valve cover and the pushrod cover, and drain the coolant to install. Getting it fished thru from one side of the block to the other may be a little tricky. I believe on later engines, the fitting on the left side of the engine is horizontal, not angled like the diagram shows.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
So I got the kit from the Filling Station and it appears it has all the proper fittings and tube. I removed the valve cover and pushrod cover. The good news is that the inside of the engine is surprisingly clean by the rockers and pushrods. When trying to loosen the brass fitting on the left side of the engine I found it seems to be attached to the copper tube and twisted that. Now I can't fish a wire through the existing tube as suggested earlier in the thread. It appears the tube goes nearly straight through the block between the 4th and 5th cylinders. If I get the existing copper tube out of there what are the chances I'll be able to fish the new tube through? Also would you guys use any kind of tread sealer on the new brass fittings? Thanks for all the help John
The pictures I posted specifically says the fitting is sweated (soldered) to the tube. The fitting has to be heated, to melt the solder, so the fitting can be loosened without twisting the tube. If the fitting has had a 1/4 rotation or more then the tube most likely is too twisted to remove the fitting. I would stop and take a picture of the fitting and tube. Also take a picture of the driver's side fitting and tube. Post both pictures.
The driver's side fitting has a compression nut or part that is most like tight against the tube. Trying to removed the nut may twist the tube on the other side.
Last edited by buoymaker; 05/26/20225:16 AM.
"Adding CFM to a truck will only help at engine speeds you don't want to use." "I found there was nothing to gain beyond 400 CFM."
Back again. I fished a length of rebar tie wire through the old copper tube, as suggested earlier, so when I pulled the copper tube I had the wire to guide the new copper tube through the block. Now my problem is the fittings supplied in the kit from the Filling Station are too long and will hit the push rod cover when I install it. Has anyone ever used one of these kits and how did you make room to route the copper tube behind the cover? Do you think I can get a 90 degree fitting that will work? Thanks John
The people who built up that kit have obviously never tried to install one of their products. You're going to need to do a couple of modifications to make it work. First, run a 1/4" NPT tap into the block (carefully) to deepen the threads and allow the reducer bushing to penetrate the full depth of the threads. Then do the same thing with a 1/8" NPT tap to the female side of the reducer bushing so the crimp fitting thread bottoms out. That should give you just enough room to clear the pushrod cover by making a short radius bend in the tubing. The original fitting was much shorter, and didn't use a reducer bushing. I would drill the female threads out of the reducer so the adapter drops into it all the way to the hex, and silver solder the two pieces together before threading the reducer into the block. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Thanks for all the help but you have to bear with me a bit. I'm pretty much an amateur but am having fun learning which is one of the reasons I bought this truck. There are three fittings in this kit. One reducer threads into the block, a second reducer threads into the first, then what I believe you are calling the crimp fitting threads into the middle fitting. You want me to drill out the female threads in the first fitting so the first two hex heads are touching and solder them. They wouldn't actually be threaded together- just soldered. That and getting the first fitting further into the block will give me about 3/4 inch so that's a good start. Next tap the female threads in the middle fitting deeper so the crimp fitting hex head bottoms out. Will the crimp fitting still work to seal the copper tube? Is the crimp fitting like a compression fitting? I think perhaps I will buy a few extra fittings to practice with. Thanks again John
None of the fittings involved are under pressure, other than the minuscule pressure of the cooling system, so solder will be very secure. All it's doing is preventing coolant from leaking into the crankcase. The fitting that actually secures the copper line has a pyramid-shaped bevel that crimps down on the line as it's tightened into the corresponding taper inside the middle fitting. This is a one-time operation. Once the fitting is tightened it locks onto the tubing and cannot be removed. If you can come up with extra fittings, send them to me and I'll be glad to do the necessary machining and soldering. I would use silver solder (sometimes called "Sil-Floss") that's used to secure high pressure refrigeration line connections. Soft solder will probably work OK, but I prefer a little overkill in situations like this.
Another option would be to use a solid brass 1/4" pipe plug under the pushrod cover, drill a 3/16" hole in it to allow the tubing to pass through the center, and solder the tube to the plug once everything is in place. That would definitely give you more working room under the cover. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Keep an air hose handy to blow out any small fires that might get started. I've been doing that for a few decades, and I heven't burned down any shops yet! If you use about half a can of brake cleaner to hose down the area there won't be enough oil residue left to be a problem, but let the area dry out overnight before heating anything. Some brake cleaners are non-flammable, but heating them forms some really toxic gases. You could also solder the fitting to the tube before threading it into the block if you leave enough length on both ends to route the tubing where it needs to go. The adapter fitting on the driver's side of the engine can stick out as far as necessary since there's no sheet metal cover over there. I bought a 10 foot length of 3/16" copper tubing from the Walmart website, of all places! If you choose not to use the pinch-type gland nut under the pushrod cover, the other fittings are all common hardware store items, including the tubing.
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Ok guys, So I went with plan D. I got a 1/4" plug and drilled it. I figured how much copper tubing I would need to get through the engine and connect 'the other side. I soldered the plug on the tubing with silver solder, fished the tubing through the block, and tightened the plug into the block. Success! I have the tubing run just short of flush with the edge of the engine so with the gasket I'll be good to go. Thanks everyone for all the help and maybe next time I'll ask before I screw things up. John
"I love it when a plan comes together!" Kudos to you for keeping at it until you solved the problem! Be sure the tubing doesn't get against a pushrod- - - -that soft copper gets a hole rubbed into it pretty quickly. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
I’m back at the truck. I decided to solder the drivers side brass plug instead of using the other three fittings. Is there a thread sealer that will withstand the temp From soldering that copper tube to the brass plug? I would like to use a thread sealer where the brass plug goes into the block Thanks John
I doubt you'll be able to get the plug hot enough to solder the tubing into it with the plug screwed into the block. The heat sink effect may not let the solder draw into the joint well enough to make a good joint. But you're welcome to try. I don't think you'll have an issue with sealant, as if you get the plug snugly in the block, taper thread tend to self-seal. Pipe dope and/or teflon tape are more of an assist in getting the fittings tight enough to seal.
Kevin 1951 Chevy 3100 work truck Follow this saga in Project Journal Photos 1929 Ford pickup restored from the ground up. | 1929 Ford Special Coupe (First car) Busting rust since the mid-60's If you're smart enough to take it apart, you darn well better be smart enough to put it back together.
An acetylene torch and silver solder will get things hot enough, quick enough to work, but it still a very bad idea. Go ahead if you must. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
