First id like to give a huge shoutout to mike! (69cuda) & jerry (hotrod lincoln) and those who took time to help me out answer questions and share information with me during the build of my 1958 viking 60 aka The Black Pearl. Retains her original 4 spd, w/ 2 spd rear. Now boasts a 994 hp bbc and is a hauling rig!
Now for the hard part. I just picked up a 54 gmc 450 coleman truck with the gmc 302 engine. Unknown model 5 speed trans and of course 4 wheel drive. Im looking for information on the coleman systems. Replacement parts, information such as service manuals operating manuals etc. Wheel bolt pattern as it appears differenr than my 6 lug budd style wheels on my viking but is still 6 lugs. Any info is helpful as i am about to begin repairing it back to a road worthy condition. Thanks gents!
THE BLACK VIKING 1958 Viking 60 ~ my new toy hauler My Current fleet: 1954 chevy 3800, 1953/4 gmc 450 coleman 4x4, 1956 chevy pickup, 1958 Viking 60 Keep 'em rollin fellas!
~ Billy Old Dominion Stovebolt Society: Exotic Animal Division 1946 Chevrolet Cab Over Engine | In the Gallery | Video | More pictures 1959 GMC 860 | Pictures 1950 GMC 450 FlatbedW/W, Air Brake equipt (25% Owner) | Pictures 1950 Chevrolet 3800 | Pictures I've got a trailer and I'm not afraid to use it!
Hy BlackViking60, that's quite a rare truck you have found. GMCs of that size and vintage were either equipped with Dayton or Motor wheels. Your new truck obviously doesn't have Daytons, so it probably has Motor wheels. Motor wheels are a hub piloted wheel which use a retaining nut with a large washer. Your new truck probably has a Clark transmission. Good luck with your project.
Coleman built extremely heavy duty rigs for government agencies like the forest service and the US military, including huge aircraft moving tugs for the Air Force, as well as a limited number of civilian vehicles. They sort of catered to the "I don't care what it costs- - - -make it rugged" customer base. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
THE BLACK VIKING 1958 Viking 60 ~ my new toy hauler My Current fleet: 1954 chevy 3800, 1953/4 gmc 450 coleman 4x4, 1956 chevy pickup, 1958 Viking 60 Keep 'em rollin fellas!
Hy BlackViking60, that's quite a rare truck you have found. GMCs of that size and vintage were either equipped with Dayton or Motor wheels. Your new truck obviously doesn't have Daytons, so it probably has Motor wheels. Motor wheels are a hub piloted wheel which use a retaining nut with a large washer. Your new truck probably has a Clark transmission. Good luck with your project.
Do you happen to know the bolt pattern on these motor wheels? Thanks and any idea where i find the # on the clark so i know which one it is? Thanks
THE BLACK VIKING 1958 Viking 60 ~ my new toy hauler My Current fleet: 1954 chevy 3800, 1953/4 gmc 450 coleman 4x4, 1956 chevy pickup, 1958 Viking 60 Keep 'em rollin fellas!
I like the wipers , I wonder the reason they put them up top ,it would be easy to get at but still a bit of work for the headliner ect to fit.
From what i saw they are vacuum wipers. One motor on each wiper arm. I dont think there was any headliner hiding those. You cant flip the sun visor all the way up.
THE BLACK VIKING 1958 Viking 60 ~ my new toy hauler My Current fleet: 1954 chevy 3800, 1953/4 gmc 450 coleman 4x4, 1956 chevy pickup, 1958 Viking 60 Keep 'em rollin fellas!
Coleman built extremely heavy duty rigs for government agencies like the forest service and the US military, including huge aircraft moving tugs for the Air Force, as well as a limited number of civilian vehicles. They sort of catered to the "I don't care what it costs- - - -make it rugged" customer base. Jerry
I can tell haha. The truck has front & rear 15x4 brakes, double frame. Gvwr 19,500 Gvcwr is 38k
If you have any coleman info that would be much appreciated, thanks jerry!
THE BLACK VIKING 1958 Viking 60 ~ my new toy hauler My Current fleet: 1954 chevy 3800, 1953/4 gmc 450 coleman 4x4, 1956 chevy pickup, 1958 Viking 60 Keep 'em rollin fellas!
Black Pearl is awesome. How about posting a few more pics and the story behind the build in our Gallery Forum?
John
Will do!
THE BLACK VIKING 1958 Viking 60 ~ my new toy hauler My Current fleet: 1954 chevy 3800, 1953/4 gmc 450 coleman 4x4, 1956 chevy pickup, 1958 Viking 60 Keep 'em rollin fellas!
Thanks mike! Couldnt have done it without your help!
THE BLACK VIKING 1958 Viking 60 ~ my new toy hauler My Current fleet: 1954 chevy 3800, 1953/4 gmc 450 coleman 4x4, 1956 chevy pickup, 1958 Viking 60 Keep 'em rollin fellas!
GMC's usually have a metal tag inside the cab somewhere, either inside a glove box door, or maybe riveted to a kick panel, that lists major components such as engine, transmission, front and rear axles, etc. with weight ratings, model numbers, and other basic info, along with the VIN number or other identification. My 1961 GMC/American LaFrance fire truck had a tag like that which identified the engine as a 401 V6, and the 5 speed Clark transmission, plus front and rear axle weight ratings. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
GMC's usually have a metal tag inside the cab somewhere, either inside a glove box door, or maybe riveted to a kick panel, that lists major components such as engine, transmission, front and rear axles, etc. with weight ratings, model numbers, and other basic info, along with the VIN number or other identification. My 1961 GMC/American LaFrance fire truck had a tag like that which identified the engine as a 401 V6, and the 5 speed Clark transmission, plus front and rear axle weight ratings. Jerry
I believe they were supposed to be inside the glove box but maybe im thinking task force trucks. Either way, know any good sources for hotrodding the gmc 302 to give her more umph? Even full build info, as the truck says 95k on it and it could be tired.
THE BLACK VIKING 1958 Viking 60 ~ my new toy hauler My Current fleet: 1954 chevy 3800, 1953/4 gmc 450 coleman 4x4, 1956 chevy pickup, 1958 Viking 60 Keep 'em rollin fellas!
Hy BlackViking60, the Motor wheel bolt circle on the six stud wheels is 8.75" The transmission could be a Clark 202V,207VO (overdrive) or a 205V, check the back of the glove compartment door for the equipment plate, hope that helps.
Even a "stock" rebuild of a GMC inline six can make a checkbook need CPR. After WW II there were untold thousands of GMC 270's sold for surplus, as a large number of 6X6 military trucks were built on GMC running gear. Sadly, virtually all of them, and most of the 1950's vintage military 302's got sacrificed to the gods of racing- - - -drag racing, dirt tracks, and even a specific class of Bonneville land speed record run that the 302 was used for. The surviving "go fast" stuff is being hoarded by a few GMC enthusiasts, like multi-carb intake manifolds, headers, racing cams, 12 port Wayne heads, and other bits and pieces that are mostly only good for all-out racing.
Fortunately, a basic stock rebuild is all a 302 really needs for a truck the size of yours. It's got plenty of torque to handle the load, and there's not much advantage to going for high RPM horsepower- - - - -that kind of engine build will dramatically shorten the lifespan of the engine! Piston rings, rod and main bearings, gaskets, and other regular rebuilding parts are still available with a little careful shopping. Pistons- - - -they're scarce and expensive, so don't do a re-bore job unless it's an absolute necessity due to taper wear in the cylinders.
The 270's Dad's 34 Ford 3 window coupe was running against on 1/4 mile dirt tracks in the early 1950's had plenty of torque, but not enough traction- - - - -he said his car would be halfway down the straight before they could get hooked up coming off the turns! Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Hy BlackViking60, the Motor wheel bolt circle on the six stud wheels is 8.75" The transmission could be a Clark 202V,207VO (overdrive) or a 205V, check the back of the glove compartment door for the equipment plate, hope that helps.
Thanks i appreciate that! It definately helps. Any idea if the trans itself is marked somewhere with the model # just incase that plaque is missing?.
THE BLACK VIKING 1958 Viking 60 ~ my new toy hauler My Current fleet: 1954 chevy 3800, 1953/4 gmc 450 coleman 4x4, 1956 chevy pickup, 1958 Viking 60 Keep 'em rollin fellas!
Even a "stock" rebuild of a GMC inline six can make a checkbook need CPR. After WW II there were untold thousands of GMC 270's sold for surplus, as a large number of 6X6 military trucks were built on GMC running gear. Sadly, virtually all of them, and most of the 1950's vintage military 302's got sacrificed to the gods of racing- - - -drag racing, dirt tracks, and even a specific class of Bonneville land speed record run that the 302 was used for. The surviving "go fast" stuff is being hoarded by a few GMC enthusiasts, like multi-carb intake manifolds, headers, racing cams, 12 port Wayne heads, and other bits and pieces that are mostly only good for all-out racing.
Fortunately, a basic stock rebuild is all a 302 really needs for a truck the size of yours. It's got plenty of torque to handle the load, and there's not much advantage to going for high RPM horsepower- - - - -that kind of engine build will dramatically shorten the lifespan of the engine! Piston rings, rod and main bearings, gaskets, and other regular rebuilding parts are still available with a little careful shopping. Pistons- - - -they're scarce and expensive, so don't do a re-bore job unless it's an absolute necessity due to taper wear in the cylinders.
The 270's Dad's 34 Ford 3 window coupe was running against on 1/4 mile dirt tracks in the early 1950's had plenty of torque, but not enough traction- - - - -he said his car would be halfway down the straight before they could get hooked up coming off the turns! Jerry
I know youre the king of "if it aint broke dont fix it" but we are in a modern woels where a truck this size wirth maybe 150 hp/ 250 torque doesnt get up and go like it needs to. I have heard of the expense of building them but the motor in the black viking i posted is a downpayment on a house in itself. I also am not even sure what to expect out of a performance 302. We talking 200, 250. 300 hp? Ideally id like to keep all my power down low as it is a truck so a big cam doesnt interest me. What does is cylinder heads. And boost for this particular truck. A small turbo and a cylinder head would get me where i want to be. As far as power goes. Just not sure who to even talk to that does gmc performance. As ive reached out to sissels and they havent gotten back
THE BLACK VIKING 1958 Viking 60 ~ my new toy hauler My Current fleet: 1954 chevy 3800, 1953/4 gmc 450 coleman 4x4, 1956 chevy pickup, 1958 Viking 60 Keep 'em rollin fellas!
Well, get out your scale, get the diameter of the bolt pattern, bolt patterns are typically stated 6 on (diameter in inches) 9. Probably Motor Wheel, look for large captive washer under nut as was stated. GMC used this wheel.
Coleman vehicles were built in Littleton, CO since the ‘30’s at least, don’t know if all HD ones were built there?
Ed
Last edited by EdPruss; 02/01/20221:39 PM.
'37 GMC T-18 w/ DD 4-53T, RTO-610, 6231 aux., '95 GMC running gear, full disc brakes, power steering, 22.5 wheels and tires. '47 GMC 1 ton w/ 302, NP-540, 4wd, full width Blazer front axle. '54 GMC 630 w/ 503 gasser, 5 speed, ex fire truck, shortened WB 4', install 8' bed. '55 GMC 370 w/270, 420 4 speed, grain, dump bed truck from ND. Works OK.
Yes, a turbo would help- - - -as long as it's attached to something like a 6BT diesel engine. If you're determined to make that classic old truck into something it was never intended to be in the first place, you might as well go ahead and really butcher it up! Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
My ‘54 GMC has all the pertinent info on a tag inside the glove box.
I had a ‘53 GMC fire truck, put a 5831 Brownie in it where pump was, would go 70 MPH W/O load, drove it from CO to Iowa, etc. collecting gas engines, kept up with traffic, good mileage(12 to 15 comes to mind), only mod. to stock was .0625” off head with stock 302.
Ed
'37 GMC T-18 w/ DD 4-53T, RTO-610, 6231 aux., '95 GMC running gear, full disc brakes, power steering, 22.5 wheels and tires. '47 GMC 1 ton w/ 302, NP-540, 4wd, full width Blazer front axle. '54 GMC 630 w/ 503 gasser, 5 speed, ex fire truck, shortened WB 4', install 8' bed. '55 GMC 370 w/270, 420 4 speed, grain, dump bed truck from ND. Works OK.
Yes, a turbo would help- - - -as long as it's attached to something like a 6BT diesel engine. If you're determined to make that classic old truck into something it was never intended to be in the first place, you might as well go ahead and really butcher it up! Jerry
Im not trying to butcher it, just looking for more performance. I dont plan on changing anything that makes it unique, i wont be swapping the engine. Or trans. Or ruining the truck. My viking wasnt anything special, this coleman however is very special to me. Id just like to get more power from that 302 which we all know can make it. Nothing wrong with giving it the power it deserves to have and we all know it can make.
THE BLACK VIKING 1958 Viking 60 ~ my new toy hauler My Current fleet: 1954 chevy 3800, 1953/4 gmc 450 coleman 4x4, 1956 chevy pickup, 1958 Viking 60 Keep 'em rollin fellas!
Like I used to tell my high school students- - - - -"Make it stop and steer before you make it go fast". Those heavy duty drive axle were never intended to run the speeds you're proposing, so even if you do manage to modify the 302 for the RPM capability you're considering, the drive train will either hand grenade itself or wear out parts that can never be replaced. Good luck- - - - -you're going to need it. Jerry
"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt! There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Like I used to tell my high school students- - - - -"Make it stop and steer before you make it go fast". Those heavy duty drive axle were never intended to run the speeds you're proposing, so even if you do manage to modify the 302 for the RPM capability you're considering, the drive train will either hand grenade itself or wear out parts that can never be replaced. Good luck- - - - -you're going to need it. Jerry
Jerry my interests are to keep it @ or below 55mph. Which is about top speed for stock on these trucks my viking can run highways all day long, just looking to build more power out of the engine so i dont have to work it as hard when pulling a load. The real question is where can information on coleman 4wd conversions be found. Like service manuals. Currently flying blind & would like to find information to study up on. Google wasnt much help it shows me coleman grills and anything that has nothing to do with my gmc making it difficult to research lol.
THE BLACK VIKING 1958 Viking 60 ~ my new toy hauler My Current fleet: 1954 chevy 3800, 1953/4 gmc 450 coleman 4x4, 1956 chevy pickup, 1958 Viking 60 Keep 'em rollin fellas!
How about posting a few more pics and the story behind the build in our Gallery Forum?
