The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline DIY Brake Lines or Kit

So looking for some advice as to whether or not to do my own brake lines or just buy a kit for my 1950 1/2 ton. Modifications that I have done that may or may not impact using a kit are disc brakes all around and new mc w/booster, proportioning valve and residual pressure valve (Not sure if this is needed). By adding the new parts does it make it so a kit will not work?
I have seen kits going from 170-205 for stainless 3/16 inch diameter. Which doesn't sound terrible especially if there was a major time savings buy if I have to tweak it so much for the new parts then maybe not a good way to go.
Having never made my own before Im not sure how long it would take or cost for tooling and don't forget how much material would be waisted just trying to learn it. I do see where people say Cu Ni tubing is much easier to work with perhaps the only drawback being corrosion over time. Anyways I was looking for pros and cons on each method.

Thanks,
Eric

Eric, I'd just measure all the lengths needed from your master cylinder/proportioning valve, etc to the front and rear, taking into consideration the diameter of each line you need and go to O'Reilly's and see what they have in pre-made lines (including the rubber connecting lines if you need these also). I've used these pre-made lines many times and have never had a single problem...really super easy to work with as you mentioned. The last time I bought one, it was a copper/nickel line (which as I recall was made in the USA). It came with both fittings, was 20 inches long and cost me less than $10. I know a lot of people buy stainless, but I'm not in that group. Good luck.

Dongray,
Using a kit may be your best route. You will no doubt need to make some modifications but the overall layout of the bends and basic lengths should work. There are companies that can help with the tools you will need, Eastwood and Speedway are a good start.

Making up you own lines isn't impossible a little practice and some good patience and I can be done. You will still need the residual pressure valves front and rear with 4 wheel dics brakes.

Or you can buy them from the AGS website if you want them shipped to you (this is who made the one I bought):

https://agscompany.com/product-category/brake-fuel-transmission-lines/nicopp-nickel-copper/

Lots of different size and type choices there.

There is a third choice that I always do. Pre-flared lengths from FLAPS. No leaks, no tools, no practice, not much money. Not as good looking as option 1 and 2 if someone climbs under there as says OMG!

No one ever has.

Brake and fuel.

O'Reilly's: American Grease Slick steel and PVF tubing. May need a couple of brass couplings.

Not for the purist I guess.

Definitely the best for deviations from stock plumbing.

Just remember, you don't find your bad DIY self flared connections/leaks until it's all together, filled and bled.

What I did is buy a roll of copper-nickel brake line and fittings and used the lengths from the parts list. Link In most cases, it was real close to what I needed, and the cu-ni line is real easy to bend. I did use one pre-made line for the master cylinder to first division block, as it was a larger size than the rest. I think it came out well.

How did you like working with the copper-nickel? I intend to redo the brakes in the spring and am debating whether or not to use it.

Bending the one steel line I used needed a bending tool to keep it from kinking. But the cu-ni line could be bent by hand. I’d recommend it.

If you want copper, Flaps have the same assortment of lengths and diameters of pre-flared tubing as the PVF steel. American Grease Slick NiCopp. Bending tool not required.

Back to the OP's main question ...

On two restorations I've done ('39 1/2-ton and a '49 1.5-ton), I did all my own brake lines. The '39 because I *had* to -- nobody had brake line kits back then for that era. The '49 because I wanted to. I really enjoyed the process on the '49. Granted, it was a frame off and I was just working on a bare, freshly painted chassis. A couple of thoughts about DIY:

1. Get a really good flaring kit. Eastwood has one and some of the other high end tool vendors offer the same thing. The experts can point you to them. Yes, they are expensive. But you make perfect flares every time.
2. There is a learning curve. Enjoy the process and don't get frustrated by a few unusable pieces.
3. Very helpful if you have a little artist in you. Helps with visualizing, and then accurately rendering, compound curves.
4. Approach it as a fun exercise with no end time constraints. I went into the shop those evenings with the thought that I was going to spend the next couple of hours enjoying myself. I did. If I had approached as "I have to get this done by the end of the week" It would not have gone well. When I bent the last line and had a completed system that worked with no leaks, I was super satisfied. I was also a little let down because it was over (too soon, it seemed ...). Everything seemed to get harder and less enjoyable after that ....

FWIW ...
John

I seem to be doing that a lot, lately. Get a roll of whatever size I need. Put it through my tubing straightener, then proceed to bend, shape and flare. On my latest project, I've been using 3/16" and 3/8" stainless tubing. Harder to work with, but a little bit prettier. Actually having fun the whole time.

Getting ready to bend up about 10’ of nickel copper 3/16 line to replace a front to back line. A few complex bends and of course the double flare ends. Should be entertaining. I have done steel before but this is my first try with the soft stuff.

I had the same experience as John. I just enjoyed the process and missed the creative activity once it was completed.

Well thanks to everyones input I have been investigating all the options and my initial thoughts were just make it quick and easy, don't much care what it looks like since very few will ever see it as Bartomas stated and if they did oh well, its an old truck. But after reading through all the responses and multiple people talking about using the Cu Ni I think I will take a stab at it. Plus as J Milliman pointed out it might be a release for my artistic side which doesn't see daylight much anymore. It also helps that I have a friend that has the needed tools so that is a big plus otherwise the cost might not make this feasible.

MNSmith those lines look really nice I will be happy if they come out half as good but figure it will be good practice for when I get to any exposed tubing on the engine.

Thanks everyone I really appreciate all the input! Perhaps I will share some pictures once I get going. I always get a kick at looking at pictures showing first attempts and comparing them to the last ones, my learning to weld thankfully show a significant improvement so we will see how tube bending goes.

My two cents! Practice several double flares before you get started. It took me a few before I got the hang of it.

I also found that you can make bends in CuNi with your hands but they look more professional if you use a bending tool. Learn what the markings on the bender mean and how the work. You can measure and calculate the bend so it ends up where you want it too rather than doing it by eye.

Just food for thought. I purchased an Eastwood flaring Kit last year, I added the die set to use with stainless steel as well. The kit was pricey, but the results are perfect flairs every time. The kit will also do fuel line and transmission cooling lines. The money was worth it for me as I do a lot of side work for others.

https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-hydraulic-flaring-tool.html

My secret to nice looking bends, you ask? Make a tool. Doesn't matter if I'm bending 2" tubing or 3/16" tubing. Take a small piece, bend it in your bending tool of choice. Make a perfect 90 degree bend. Mark on this little section where your 90 starts and ends. Permanent marks are nice, but a sharpie will work. Mark it while it is in the bender for accuracy.

Then, start your permanent piece at one end. I choose the hardest end to do. Make your inverted or JIC flare or whatever. Don't forget your sleeves and nuts. Attach it to its destination, if you can. Take a sharpie and your tool, and use it to mark where your bend will start. Use your tool to figure out where you want your bend to end. Transfer that distance on your permanent piece by start at your start bend mark and roll your until you can mark where you want the bend to end. Also, mark your bend direction. Either the inside of the curve or outside. Place your permanent piece in your bender and bend to your marks. Move on to the next bend if you don't have to tweak the last bend. You are allowed to do a little more bending, un-bending or twisting to get where you need to go.

It would probably be easier for those following along if I took pictures or video, maybe?

Mark, Appreciate the advice on the actual "how to" cause I certainly have never done it before and I am sure like everything there is a big learning curve. A video or pictures would be great cause I think I follow the above description but not entirely sure.

Thanks!

I hope to bend my master to proportioning valve today. I'll try to capture some pics.

One more thing, make sure you put the fitting on before you flare the end. Been there and done that! LOL!

X2.

Just finished bending the nickel/copper replacement 3/16 front to back line. Took about 15 minutes. I started at the easiest bend and worked towards the other end. I used the steel line as a pattern and taped the two together about every 10” as I went. This trick allowed me to tweak the bends and angles once I had it all bent up and cut to rough length. If you’re not comfortable using a bending tool the nickel/copper line is the way to go and in my opinion much faster to build.

Pic #1: I start with some mechanics wire to get a rough idea where I want to run the line and how much tubing I'll need.

Pic #2: Then I look at my flex pile and ask myself why I don't just make flex lines. It would be so much easier.

Pic #3: Time to get out the roll of tubing and the straightener. Not too little pressure, not too much.

Pic #4: The tool. Just a small piece bent to 90 degrees, marked at where the bend begins and where it ends, ON THE PARTICULAR BENDER YOU ARE USING. They are all different.

Pic #5: The deburr tool on my cutter is too big for -3 tubing. So I use this. Always deburr your cuts.

Pic #6: Flare the end you want to start with. For this particular job, I'm doing 37 degree JIC, single flare. The flare will be supported with a sleeve and attached with a nut.

Pic #7: Attach the flared tube.

Pic #8: I don't have three nor four hands. So, if I want to snap a picture, yellow tape it is. I want my tube to end up anywhere from 1/4" to 1/2" above the 90 degree brake pedal bracket. So, out come the straight edge to rest on top of the bracket. I use my tool to show me where the top of the bracket is. Hold my tool about 1/4" above the bottom of the bracket line, and mark where the bend should begin.

Pic #9: I now can't attach the tube because it will run right in to the firewall. But I can use the other end as a straight edge. I get another nut and sleeve, and put the tube in the hole. I can now measure, using 2 straight edges, where I want my next 90 to begin. Measures right at 5 inches.


Pic #10: I can now transfer that 5" mark and the bend direction on the piece I'm making.

Pic #11: Attach. Mark the next bend. Repeat until you reach the end. And, as others have said, don't forget the nut, sleeve, etc.

The first one is the easiest. The next one is a little harder because it'll have to be bent to look like an identical twin without being an identical twin.

I would also add, when you are doing stainless or other hard material, lube your flare dies. It helps with not splitting the flare when you go to make it.

Borrowed Terry B’s flaring tool to finish out the job. Had flashbacks of the late Mike Wahl and his double flaring demos at the KC Reunions. No problems encountered thanks Mike, RIP.

Now, to make one that looks like a twin, but is not a twin.

One more bend and we're home free!

Beautiful work Mark!

I love your tool. I was taught the measure, mark and bend method, using the marks on the bender. Your method is much simpler. Great looking job!

Really nice looking work Mark. I will definitely be referring to all the information and pictures as I start. I will more than likely get frustrated because I doubt my first time will look anywhere near as nice but seeing how it is all under the frame thats ok. Is the 3rd picture in the first set, the straightener? It looks like a good quality tool.

Thanks All!


Dongray, yes, that is the straightener. Russell part #654440. $177.95 at Summitracing.com. Although, I've seen people make them from "sliding" closet door wheels. A set of 5, v-groove wheels would do it.