The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline King pin locking bolt troubles- looking for ideas

Well, the old '51's tires have been showing wear on the outsides for some time and I was told the king pins were at fault. Yesterday, I got the truck jacked up and the first wheel and brake plate pulled, then started to work on changing out the king pins. Got the plugs out and the nut off the locking bolt and sprayed everything down with PB Blaster and went in for dinner and to let the blaster work. A half hour later, I went back out in the 90* heat and did something I'm ashamed to even tell about. After looking everything over and sticking all the bolts in Ziploc bags to keep them from running away, I commenced to pounding the king pin out. It moved about 3/32" before I missed the socket I was using for a drift and opened up my thumb with my 4# beater. Went in, washed and bandaged it, mad as hell at myself for missing what I was whacking (I'm a retired Ironworker who learned long ago to not miss when beating a bull or barrel pin, and to NEVER hold a pin for somebody else who's swinging the hammer). Where was I looking, anyway? Don't know. But after I calmed down and took some Tylenol, I started thinking about why it moved a little, then no more. Right about then, I got a sick feeling in my gut. After lunch, the first step was to drive out the locking bolt, and I forgot to do it. I was beating the hell out of the king pin while the locking pin was still in it. !@#%!!! So this morning I went back out to drive said locking bolt out. With the nut on the end, I started tapping, then pounding until the nut went crooked. When I got it off I saw that the bolt had started to bend. Knowing that it wouldn't drive out now that it wasn't straight, I grabbed my sawzall and cut it as close to the axle as I could without hitting it. Then I grabbed my 5/16" drift pin and attempted to drive it out. It seemed to be moving, but after checking the other side, I'm convinced it hasn't moved a bit. I don't want to have to pull the axle, and I'm trying to come up with an idea for some sort of press that I could use where it sits. I thought about it and then wondered if I'd pounded the king pin last night into the locking bolt, so I started trying to drive the pin back up to clear the lock bolt. With not much room down there (about a foot) swinging the beater and holding the bolt I'm using for a drift pin isn't allowing much swing. So, here are my 3 questions at this point-

A) Could that locking bolt be driven out from the other side? It was rounded and protruding from the axle about a sixteenth of an inch, so I ground it off flush with the axle face. This is IF the king pin isn't jammed into it from last night's pound fest.
B) Has anyone ever fabricated a small press, either hydraulic or bolt type (run down with an impact wrench) that I could build to push the bolt out?
C) After I get that dang bolt out, has anyone built a home made press that works on king pins? If so, how'd you fab it up? Actually, I'm thinking the king pins won't be so bad as my lock bolt fiasco. I'm actually seeing the pin and bushings moving pretty freely when I turn the spindle, so I'm hoping the all night PB Blaster soak might have helped out there.

If anybody has any good ideas or tricks that may help, please pass them this way. Right now I'm feeling pretty stupid (and sore) for getting the cart before the horse by driving that king pin before the lock bolt. Another example why, whenever my wife yells "Dinner's ready!", my reply should always be "I'll eat later. I might forget and do something really dumb if I stop right now." Hindsight is always 20/20.

Unfortunately, the locking pin is tapered, so you won't be able to drive it out from the end opposite the nut. Maybe a 2-jaw puller could push it out.
As far as getting the king pin back up a bit. Stick your bolt you're using for a drift on top of a jack, put some tension on it by raising the jack (a screw type would be best), and give the top of the axle a few love taps with the BFH.
And remember to keep those thumbs out of the way.

I agree with Kevin. Try to get a little up and down movement from king pin. The tapered pin is not as hard as the king pin so it may have twisted or indented from the king pin notch. Maybe a little low heat (not cherry red).

Just a hair brain idea if all else fails. At the round end of the tapered pin, grind a flat spot, center punch, drill and tap a hole but stay away from the king pin. It's hardened. Screw in a bolt in the newly threaded hole. I use a homemade bodywork dent puller (slide hammer) that is attached to the head of the bolt. If you don't have one, improvise.

I kind of thought it was a tapered bolt, so I'm glad you told me that. I was thinking about using a jack to push the king pin up, and even saw a guy on youtube who fabbed up a sort of mini-press out of a cylinder jack with steel side supports holding a steel brace across the top with an opening to let the pin exit as it was shoved through. I was trying to figure out how to configure something smaller that might be able to mount horizontally on the king pin housing, but buoymaker, your idea sounds pretty good too. Such a small bolt in that 3/8" lock bolt would be close to watch makers work. Plus, I'm curious if it would hold or just rip out the threads? I have a slide hammer, but getting it inside that fender might be iffy. But I'll try anything I can at this point. If all else fails, I'll pull the axle. I knew this wasn't going to be fun, but I was hoping it would be "in-place no-fun". I just laid out there under it staring up at it trying out Professor Harold Hill's Think Method, thinking I could maybe just 'will' it into jumping out of the hole. Didn't work. (It worked on the Music Man, dang it!) I'll let you know how it goes tomorrow.

Yes the tapped hole may not be a good idea. Another idea, tack weld or spot weld a rod on the tapered pin. Use vise grips, block of wood and crowbar for leverage. I know all this sounds like "shade tree" stuff. Just trying to think of options.

LOL I've wished a couple times that Magic would work for me too. But usually good ol determination finally wins the day.

I haven't had much success with a slide hammer, and once you have drilled and tapped a hole for a pull bolt, you might as well drill out enough of the lock pin that you could drive the kingpin by the remnants. The trouble with that is keeping your drill straight so you don't hog out the hole the ping goes into. I really think that the hydraulic jack push method would work. I think you could fab up a frame with a pin on it and get that bugger out of there. I think that removing the brake backing plate would give you enough room to do something similar with the kingpin. That might be less involved than removing the whole axle.

[on edit] I like buoymaker's idea of welding something on to the lock pin. If you can get close enough to keep from welding it to the axle, a bolt would give you something to pry against (prybar behind the head).

Knock the king pin buck up the same distance which you originally knocked it down. This will remove the binding tension which the king pin is causing.
Then, without hesitation, hit that threaded end of the lock pin with swift and blinding violence. The pin is softer than the axle and the king pin. It will be driven out without damaging anything. Increase the size of the hammer as needed. If you have a small section of railroad rail or similar, you could have someone hold it against the axle to increase the effectiveness of the hammer blows.

Weld a piece of all-thread rod to the head end of the bolt and pull it out with a socket sleeved over the rod and a nut.

Or

Grind an air hammer chisel shaft down to 5/16" (keep the tip short at first for max strength) and try driving the bolt out with the air hammer. Wear your safety glasses with a face shield as metal could be flying!

Mike B

I'm with Carl. A RBFH beats an air hammer in my opinion. An air hammer tends to deform instead of move things.

The locking pin is not really tapered (circumference is the same) but has a flat taper cut on one side that mates with the flat on the king pin. As you draw the locking pin into the hole, the taper draws tight on the king pin, locking it into place.

I agree with Carl and Kevin. Knock the king pin back to it’s original position to relieve any additional pressure you imposed upon it, then try driving the pin out with your punch and a mallet. You can clamp a vice grip on the punch to move your hand away from danger.

On the next side, thread a nut on to the locking pin, so there is only a 1/16” or less space between the nut and the axle, thread a second nut on top and lock them together (double nutted). This will allow you to get the pin moving without deforming the thread. Once the first nut contacts the axle remove, the second nut, back the first nut out to the end, then tap the pin out the rest of the way. If it still takes too much effort repeat the process with the two nuts.

Bucking the axle with a large piece of steel (as Carl suggested), will make the blows that much more effective! A large sledge (12-16 lb) works really well, but you will need a friend.

Good Luck!

Here is what you are working with, https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/t8wAAOSwAVhe8YuM/s-l640.jpg

Good luck but I tried everything I could think of (brute force and heat) and could not get the king pin out. I finally pully the entire axle and with it off grabbed a sledge hammer for one last attempt to drivee it out. No luck. I took the entire axle and new king pins to a local machine shop to have them pressed out and the new ones installed. The machine shop had better luck than me but commented on how stuck they were.

Thanks for all the suggestions, folks! I'm just getting ready to get back out there, and every one of these ideas sound good. As an old welder, the Mike B's idea of all thread to back it out was my first thought, since I recently had to weld a nut onto a stripped out tranny fill plug on my utv to get it out a couple weeks ago. But the idea of trying to weld a rod onto something so small without welding onto the pin housing too, kind of spooks me. I might weld everything together! I've got rods and a 110v flux core wire feeder, but I'll save that for last.

Got a lot of votes for pushing the king pin back up (I know it moved down some), since that is more than likely binding the bolt. Unfortunately, since I've got two good floor jacks, I think I gave my bottle jack away last year. I do have an ancient screw type jack which has to be manually turned by had with the rod sticking through it. I think I'll go to the pawn shop and see if I can locate one, or just buy one for that. (I held onto that bottle jack for years, never using it. As usual, once it's no longer around, I need it).

I've got a cheap air chisel and also a Bosch roto-hammer, but I'm pretty sure I'd mangle the bolt and the housing if I used the chisel, and the roto hammer is like a small suitcase, with spline type bits that are over a foot long. I'd have to locate something smaller, so that's out of the question.

I'm still considering making some sort of steel frame that would allow a bottle jack to sit (hang?) on the nut side and pull off the other side of the axle to force it out, if all else fails. As I said, I think I saw this idea on a youtube video on the margins of one I watched on king pin removal, and the guy was using it for the king pin. But if all else fails, I'll fabricate something along those lines. I searched the web and found something made for that- For $1,100. A cheaper version was there for over $700. For one job, I think I'll save my money and build one, or use it in case I actually DO have to pull the axle and take it to a shop.

Thanks for the suggestions on bracing the back of the axle with something to absorb the springing away from the blow. Never even considered that. Seeing that it's sitting on a couple of stands, hanging in space, I can't believe I didn't think of that. Too many years of pounding on beams, columns and braces that are firmly attached to other heavy metal where nothing moves an iota, no matter what you pound it with. When all else failed, as a connector setting the pieces with a crane, we'd unhook the piece after it was in place, and swing the ball of the crane's hook as far out as we could reach and slam that 800 pound puppy into the beam to scoot it over the last inch or so. Unfortunately, I can't get a crane today, and the ball is bigger than the space under the fender, anyway. Reverting to the old methods from Ironworking often just don't work out in the driveway at home. Oh well... But thanks, guys, for the help. I'll report back later after I've tried these ideas out. Then there's the other wheel to go. You can bet I won't forget to pull the bolt on the other side! (Or go to dinner when my wife calls me.)

5 ton floor jack with chain over the axle and under the jack, pad of the jack on the pin. You now have a home made press, just be sure and use heavy chain.

Thanks, Joe H, for the idea. Looks like it's gonna take that, at least. I've got the new set of pins and bearings, but mine don't have those flutes on the sides. They seem to be straight, not tapered, but I haven't taken a mic to them or anything.

I took the day off day before yesterday. After not getting anywhere Tuesday and the heat and humidity rising here in Missouri, it felt like I just needed to walk away from it for a day. Got out there yesterday and went through a number of things before I got the lock pin out. First, I went to auto zone and rented a C-type ball joint puller that was big enough to fit around the axle and still hit the points I needed to. Ended up sticking two metal fold-up horses into the fender and hanging the tool off of a sleever bar by tie wire. I sawed off a Grade 8 5/16 bolt and gorilla taped it (sad, but it was the best I could come up with, and I was working alone) to the end of the threaded push rod, then used my impact wrench to push it through. After about 5 minutes all it did was mushroom the bolt shank. So I bought three Irwin cobalt bits, 1/8. 5/16 and 1/4", and drilled through the pin. The first shot with the eighth went off a bit and grazed the inside of the axle, so I re-drilled it to straighten it out. After going through and taking all but 1/16 to 3/32 of the pin wall out, I tried driving it out with no luck. I then tried to shave as much off without getting into the walls again. Then I tried an easy-out, and it still wouldn't budge. That's when I said heck with it and went in and got my plumber's torch. I've had to wash out tons of bolts and drill bits over the years as an ironworker, and knew that if it did it right, I could heat the rest of the pin and wash it out without damaging the axle as long as I didn't leave the heat on it too long and watched my aim. After about 5 minutes of starting and stopping to keep the heat down, I was able to blow most of it out, then one final tap with the punch drove out a thin tube of what was left, with no damage to the axle. From experience, I knew the pin would be cherry red and the axle would stay black, and the axle stayed black, so I know the heat on it didn't get too bad. Anyway, the good news is that darn pin is out. I jumped over to the other side and had the other pin out within minutes pulling the wheel and back up plate. Removed the nut and stop, double nutted it, and it drove right out. The not good news is the other spindle is tight as all get out. (The drivers side swings back and forth on the king pin and bearings easily.) But I laid on the PB Blaster last night, and maybe that will help.
SO! The stupid (of me) side lock bolt is out, and the smart side is out in 10 minutes, not days like the other one. Gonna' get close to 100* here today, and the fun job begins! I'm hoping the bottle jack works, but I'm still prepared to build a frame for a pin pusher if necessary. I've got two old 6"x24"x27' beams down at the property that are bolted together with 1" plate for the bases, and can get some 1" threaded rod. Wish I could just rent one, but we're in a rural area of southeast Missouri, so that's pretty much out. If all else fails, I'll yank those axle nuts and be off to some shop to have them pressed out. Hope not after all this work, but we'll see. Thanks a lot for all the help and suggestions, too, fellas! Sometimes when I'm ready to throw my tools across the street and quit, I come in the house and find somebody else commented, and tell myself it can be done. I've been putting this off for a couple of years because I've read on this forum how tough it can be to get them out. I've been using my '05 Silverado 3500 as my daily driver ever since the timing gear stripped in the '51 two summers ago. (It has AC!) The tires outside edges were worn to the point of being unsafe, and I'm not putting new tires on till the problem is fixed. Once the king pins are in, it's off to get the wheels aligned, although I'm pretty sure I want to rebuild or replace the tie rod ends before I put all this back together. Unless the heat stops me, i'll be back out there today. If that doesn't happen, I've got 3 bad deck boards that need replaced in the back. The fun never ends!

Glad you're making progress. I don't think I could handle that kind of heat. It's bad enough when it gets up in the '70's here.

I tried using my ball joint press like the one you rented and got one stubborn king pin to move, only to find out the end of the puller was stuck inside the bushing. Had a heck of a time getting it out, but finally did. The press is just barely deep enough to fit over the spindle, so I couldn't add a smaller diameter stub to push on the king pin. The other side came out pretty easily, so I ground it down so it was a fair amount smaller diameter and had myself a punch to drive that stubborn one the rest of the way out using a trusty BFH.
I had the whole axle out of the truck, which made it easier to work on.

Thanks, klhansen. We get hot days like this every summer, sometimes a week or two of them, but after having a heat stroke 6 years ago while building a retaining wall out of 65# blocks, then another heat stroke two years ago when working on our 43 acres south of here, I'm kind of picky on when and what I do out in this kind of heat these days. I really feel for those folks up in Oregon, Washington and Canada who are getting roasted right now. Our daughter lives in the Michigan's Upper Peninsula and their highs are in the upper 60's and 70's right now. When I walked out the door this morning at 2:30 am (still have sleeping problems from my Ironworker injuries), it was like opening the oven door! And it's still cooler than a few year ago when it was still in the 90's (or worse) at midnight.
The lock pin, as I said in the beginning, was my own fault. If I'd have continued on instead of stopping for dinner, I would have probably had that bolt out in 10 minutes like the second one. I saw a plaque on a thread a couple of weeks ago (can't remember whether it was here, the Polaris Ranger forum or the Green Tractor Talk forum when I was doing maintenance on our 2032R) that said, "Every 20 minute job is one broken bolt away from being a 3 day PITA". Amen to that!
I tried again driving the king pin on the driver side after getting the bolt out, but I'm not seeing hardly any, if any, movement. At this point I'm pretty certain it will take a press of some sort to move it. The bad part about driving it out under that fender is no room to swing. Driving it up is out of the question, and even with all the room In there, with a 4# beater (short handled sledge that all Ironworker use on the job) and decent sized drift pin, I've got to 'girl hold' the beater half way up the handle, which makes for a pretty weak hit. Anyway, it's already 1pm here, so it's time to get out there and attempt something. Fortunately, in the afternoon, the sun passes to the west, behind a shade tree on the passenger side of the truck. Also, there was a little breeze yesterday, which helped. That and a cooler full of ice cold beer.

Be sure to support the axle right up by the kingpin, then your swings with the hammer will do some good. I supported my truck by the frame so the axle would hang lower, it gave me just enough room for some good heavy hammer swings. My drivers side took all day, passenger side came out almost by itself!

I tried everything I could to get my king pins out and finally pulled the whole axle and took it to a local
shop suggested by a guy in my car club. The guy knew exactly what the problem was and had both pins
out and new ones pressed in the next day for $100. Money well spent.

Success!! After welding up a square frame out of some 3" channel iron I had laying around, I used my 20 ton "stubby" jack (7" tall) sitting on the bottom channel and clamping the top channel to the spindle, I was able to press the king pins out yesterday. Took some pics, but my old picture site, Picturetrail, is defunct, so I'm trying to figure out how to post pics on here now.


I also fabbed up a cap with a drift pin stabilizer out of some different size pipe sections, since the 5/8" cold rolled round stock that i used for the drift pin kept 'laying over', or getting out of line with the spindle, to keep it from moving. Just a simple 1/2" section of 1 7/8 ID pipe, a cap for it cut out of 1/8" plate, and then a stout 7/8" ID pipe with a 3/8" wall, 1 1/2" long welded on top to hold the pin that I sat on top of the jack's cross hatched head. (tacked it on to keep it from sliding around). The sound of the loud pop each time the king pin moved was near nirvana. Had them both out within 20 minutes and the top bushing came out with one of them, too, so that helps. I'm convinced that these had probably been changed out at some time, and who ever did the job didn't bother lining up the bushing with the grease zert holes. I know i greased them at least once over the past 8 years, but it looked to me like the grease in the spindle body were full of hard grease (??), because i had to get it out with a pick.

So, anyway, today I'll clean up all the parts and stick the new pins, lock bolt, bushings and bearings back in, then change the brake pads before i put it all back together. Also seriously considering rebuilding the tie rod ends and pitman arm ball joints before it goes for an alignment. Which brings me to another question about opinions on rebuilding tie rod ends compared to buying new 'improved' ones from classic parts.

As soon as i figure out how to put some pics on here, I'll do that. Thanks very much for all the help on this, everybody. Like I said before, there were times that i was about to throw in the towel, until i got onto my computer and heard from you all. Hearing from my peers kept me going and instead of pulling the axle and paying someone else to do it, I was able to say that I completed the job, and saved some money. Not to mention I now have some more tools for future use. Thanks again, bolters! Lee Butcher

Photo posting instructions are in the left margin of every page. If you have problems PM me and I’ll try to help.

The REAL reason I decided to build that frame for my jack and stop trying to drive the king pins out with a beater and drift pin-

OUCH!
I've got a similar (really old) issue. Remnants are a grease tattoo on the edge of my left hand.

It's almost healed up now. Kept it neosporined-up with a splint taped around it for a week or two. The bad part is that was from the 2nd time the beater bounced off the drift pin. 4# sledge ricocheted directly at the side of my thumb knuckle. Second time, a couple of days later the first hit was healing nicely, then the blow lengthened it 1/4", opened it up wide and then split it off to the side, too. Man, I was mad at myself! In the Ironworkers, we use bull pins with large heads, but we also have 'hell dogs', which are basically a pin with a 2' x 1/2" round stock rod welded perpendicular for a handle . But once a bull pin or barrel pin is started, you let go and just wallop the daylight out of it. But that's ironwork, this is not. I was getting in too big of a hurry, and a little bit mad that the king pin wasn't moving any faster. It'll be another 10 years before I do it again, though. Next time, I'll have my wife hold it.

??? We can't say that? What if I was talking about 'heaven and hell'?

Years ago I drilled my lock pins out until they were thin shells. For a press you could use a Ujoint press.